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Kichton rejects contract, likely to re-enter NHL draft (Drafted by WPG 190th overall)

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Old
03-17-2013, 09:23 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by periferal View Post
No, but you're missing the point. Clark should have NEVER been signed at all. Not with all the young players we do have to sign over the next few years. I'd rather sign a street FA than Clark.
Sure, but he said the Islanders value Clark more over Kichton because Clark signed an ELC when Kichton didn't. That's not necessarily the case (I'd bet it isn't the case), and when ELC contracts are signed does not indicate the order of which an organization ranks its prospects. Hamonic signed his ELC days before he would re-enter the draft. Does not mean they didn't value Hamonic? Of course it didn't, it just means he is difficult to sign.

Clark will sign any piece of paper put in front of him. He's a weak prospect, his agent knows that, he has no leverage, he's easy to sign. Whether or not he should be signed is another matter all together. Kichton is not as easy to sign, obviously, he has leverage and his agent knows it.

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03-17-2013, 10:45 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
Just to think this one out loud...

So you burn a draft pick on a guy from college who could split on you after his junior year. You do this hoping he turns into something special.

Then you get lucky and the guy does.

And there you are, going back to him with a 5th round pick money offer? Doesn't that seem, at a minimum, like bad planning? You hope he becomes something good, but when he does you don't have a plan to deal with it? I get how there could be burnt feelings with Nino and others who paid their dues if some primadonna from the college system passes them up, but they drafted this guy... from college... knowing and hoping they might have to have this hard decision... and then they don't do their part and make a better than 5th rounder contract offer?

Am I out of my mind to suggest that's stupid? And it isn't just "stupid" by itself, but a "Oh crud, you mean he actually panned out????!?" kind of stupid.
Now, go back and think out loud as a businessman and not a "fan"atic and you'll see why...

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03-17-2013, 10:46 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
Sure, but he said the Islanders value Clark more over Kichton because Clark signed an ELC when Kichton didn't. That's not necessarily the case (I'd bet it isn't the case), and when ELC contracts are signed does not indicate the order of which an organization ranks its prospects. Hamonic signed his ELC days before he would re-enter the draft. Does not mean they didn't value Hamonic? Of course it didn't, it just means he is difficult to sign.

Clark will sign any piece of paper put in front of him. He's a weak prospect, his agent knows that, he has no leverage, he's easy to sign. Whether or not he should be signed is another matter all together. Kichton is not as easy to sign, obviously, he has leverage and his agent knows it.
Exactly

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03-17-2013, 10:48 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
Just to think this one out loud...

So you burn a draft pick on a guy from college who could split on you after his junior year. You do this hoping he turns into something special.

Then you get lucky and the guy does.

And there you are, going back to him with a 5th round pick money offer? Doesn't that seem, at a minimum, like bad planning? You hope he becomes something good, but when he does you don't have a plan to deal with it? I get how there could be burnt feelings with Nino and others who paid their dues if some primadonna from the college system passes them up, but they drafted this guy... from college... knowing and hoping they might have to have this hard decision... and then they don't do their part and make a better than 5th rounder contract offer?

Am I out of my mind to suggest that's stupid? And it isn't just "stupid" by itself, but a "Oh crud, you mean he actually panned out????!?" kind of stupid.


It's a negotiation tactic. Garth made an offer that Kichton doesn't like. Kichton says fine I'll go for a redraft. Now the ball is in Garth's court again. Garth will up the money a bit and we'll go from there. It's far from over. Garth isn't going to offer more money than he has too. No GM would. It's all negotiation.

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03-17-2013, 11:53 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Homeland Security View Post
It's a negotiation tactic. Garth made an offer that Kichton doesn't like. Kichton says fine I'll go for a redraft. Now the ball is in Garth's court again. Garth will up the money a bit and we'll go from there. It's far from over. Garth isn't going to offer more money than he has too. No GM would. It's all negotiation.
I'll be honest with you here. Kichton isn't killing me. The team should be able to move on past signing him if it comes to that. I had Lee in the back of my mind while penning this. If this happens with Lee I will be pretty unhappy. That guy, when fully developed, might be a very effective wing for Tavares.

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Old
03-18-2013, 12:06 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by periferal View Post
LOVE this idea. Seriously.

I don't like that 20 year olds can negotiate too much for not even playing an NHL game. NHL teams should hold their rights for longer. The NHL should develop a pay-slotting system so wherever you are drafted you basically get paid a certain amount even if you "outplay" your draft position. Prove it at the NHL level and you will get paid later.
Exactly. It is way too easy for players in the NHL (such as Justin Schultz) to get away from the team that drafted them quickly.

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03-18-2013, 08:39 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Homeland Security View Post
It's a negotiation tactic. Garth made an offer that Kichton doesn't like. Kichton says fine I'll go for a redraft. Now the ball is in Garth's court again. Garth will up the money a bit and we'll go from there. It's far from over. Garth isn't going to offer more money than he has too. No GM would. It's all negotiation.
That's definitely one way to attack it but it sure does nothing for morale! If this is the way you will never attract good players. They should try a new approach cause apparently this is not working for them

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03-18-2013, 09:09 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Kvashinator12 View Post
Kichton has produced the last 2 years as he should being 20 years plus in age playing vs 16 year olds. I'm not that impressed, but who does he deserve a contract over? Mayfield? Pedan? Pelech? Maybe just maybe he wanted 1st round money which he doesn't deserve. DO you think he should be paid as a rookie like Tavares was?
said the same thing. In all honesty, those 3 are better prospects. I like what Kichton could be, but he put up big stats as an overager. Stats are stats, and you need to put the puck in the net, but still, sometimes it makes you wonder.

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03-18-2013, 09:18 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by isles31 View Post
said the same thing. In all honesty, those 3 are better prospects. I like what Kichton could be, but he put up big stats as an overager. Stats are stats, and you need to put the puck in the net, but still, sometimes it makes you wonder.
This year was his overage season. He was still 18 (mid june birthdate) when he led WHL d-men in points the first time. Then repeated it twice. Corey Pronman from hockeyprospectus.com described his offensive skill as high-end.

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Old
03-18-2013, 11:07 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
Now, go back and think out loud as a businessman and not a "fan"atic and you'll see why...
the original poster you quoted does make some good points. Obviously, the Islanders want to sign him. They drafted him hoping he would turn into this. So now that we are here, they should have a plan. I am hoping there in a contingency plan, not just an heres an offer, take it or leave it. He would be a nice piece to add to BP next year or even this year if the timing works out. I dont even think he is going to go that high in the draft as an overager, so he must be affordable?

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Old
03-18-2013, 11:38 AM
  #86
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Kichton just tweeted

Quote:
dont believe everything you hear in the media....
So maybe there's still a chance out there to get him in the fold.

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Old
03-18-2013, 12:03 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Isles Enforcer View Post
Kichton just tweeted



So maybe there's still a chance out there to get him in the fold.
Most likely posturing for a better contract. I recall signing Matt Martin was not a walk in the park where he felt he deserved more money compared to his draft position. This could be the same situation. I hope we get him in the fold, Bridgeport could definitely use him and maybe he'll surprise on the Isles in the future. A RH shot defenseman with offensive capabilities are in very short supply in the Isles system. I can't think of anyone else like him other than Jesse Graham who is a project.

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Old
03-18-2013, 12:10 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Isles Enforcer View Post
Kichton just tweeted



So maybe there's still a chance out there to get him in the fold.
It would cost more now than last summer. He could have received some bonus money
and been paid an AHL salary for this year. Maybe he can now get back what he could have made
for this season. Most of the time a player does not do as we'll if he goes back in the draft.

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Old
03-18-2013, 12:30 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
Most likely posturing for a better contract. I recall signing Matt Martin was not a walk in the park where he felt he deserved more money compared to his draft position. This could be the same situation. I hope we get him in the fold, Bridgeport could definitely use him and maybe he'll surprise on the Isles in the future. A RH shot defenseman with offensive capabilities are in very short supply in the Isles system. I can't think of anyone else like him other than Jesse Graham who is a project.

I was just gonna say there were rumors the isles and Martin were having contract issues. Everyone freaked out but in the end it was settled. Let's see how this plays out.

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Old
03-18-2013, 12:43 PM
  #90
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Kichton and his agent are just trying to get the best contract they can. They have a bit of leverage as if they don't get a deal that they like, he can always go back into the draft. But as long as their demands aren't completely unreasonable and the Isles are willing to negotiate, he should be signed before the deadline.

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Old
03-18-2013, 01:35 PM
  #91
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http://islanderspointblank.com/news/...hing-you-hear/

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Old
03-18-2013, 01:53 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Homeland Security View Post
if his next tweet was, "Guys, IT'S THE ISLANDERS!!!" the meaning of that tweet above goes right back to where we're at.

What are the circumstances? Is it money? His treatment by NYI?

I don't think he's saying he's not going back into the draft.....sounds like he's trying to rationalize his desire to get more money by going back into the draft.

Which I can't blame him.....but I hope I'm wrong and he's saying he's not spurning the NYI but open to negotiate.

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Old
03-18-2013, 01:54 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by kuwo View Post
Well, Habs just signed Darren Dietz, who was picked 11 spots after Kichton in 2011 and apparently has been one of the best WHL dmen this season. I wonder what the terms of his ELC are and whether those will be used as a basis for negotiation by one side or the other...
capgeek.com will give you all details. Ahl 67,500 bonus 90,000 per year x 3 years

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03-18-2013, 01:59 PM
  #94
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This year was his overage season. He was still 18 (mid june birthdate) when he led WHL d-men in points the first time. Then repeated it twice. Corey Pronman from hockeyprospectus.com described his offensive skill as high-end.
Ah i see. I was under the impression he was already 21 and has been an overager for two seasons. With all the big boys in the system, a guy like Kichton isnt one you let walk away if you have the chance, BUT we do have a lot of PMD in the pipeline as well who arent as small. Its a tough call if hes asking for 1st rd money, bc hes done zip at the pro level and we all know that being a Jr stud =/= pro level success. In fact, us isles fans should know this better than most franchises

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03-18-2013, 02:23 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
capgeek.com will give you all details. Ahl 67,500 bonus 90,000 per year x 3 years
Thanks. I was also interested in the NHL salary and it is 640,000, 665,000 and 690,000 $. I wonder if those numbers are closer to Kichton's desire or Snow's offer.

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Ah i see. I was under the impression he was already 21 and has been an overager for two seasons. With all the big boys in the system, a guy like Kichton isnt one you let walk away if you have the chance, BUT we do have a lot of PMD in the pipeline as well who arent as small. Its a tough call if hes asking for 1st rd money, bc hes done zip at the pro level and we all know that being a Jr stud =/= pro level success. In fact, us isles fans should know this better than most franchises
I certainly agree, however I would say that no North American prospect demanding max ELC salary is professionally proven. And I'm also not sure how many true offensive PP QB prospects do the Isles have. Matt Donovan and? I don't see that kind of offensive output from our defensive prospects. Of course I have no idea if Kichton succeeds at the next level, however in my opinion it would not be wise to let a kid with his junior achievements go if money is the only problem.

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03-18-2013, 03:03 PM
  #96
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The guy is putting up monster numbers, so I get why he/his agent wants the bucks...

But I think to say its a certainty we will lose him is a bit pre-mature.

Its nice the Isles are looking to sign him. I hope they do get him under a deal of some kind, but the guy is an overager in Juniors. It does not automatically mean he will become Nik Lidstrom or Dennis Potvin at the NHL level.

Lets hope we can retain him. If not, sobeit...

We have a lot of prospects in the fold at all levels.

I think it is promising to note that it appears Lee and Mayfield could ink deals after this season... both are solid prospects who could make a real NHL level impact.

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03-18-2013, 03:12 PM
  #97
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The guy is putting up monster numbers, so I get why he/his agent wants the bucks...

But I think to say its a certainty we will lose him is a bit pre-mature.

Its nice the Isles are looking to sign him. I hope they do get him under a deal of some kind, but the guy is an overager in Juniors. It does not automatically mean he will become Nik Lidstrom or Dennis Potvin at the NHL level.

Lets hope we can retain him. If not, sobeit...

We have a lot of prospects in the fold at all levels.

I think it is promising to note that it appears Lee and Mayfield could ink deals after this season... both are solid prospects who could make a real NHL level impact.
Matt Martin did the same thing before he signed. This is not uncommon. Kichton's put up some big numbers and his agent is trying to maximize the kid's money. This might be his only pro contract ever.

OR, if he's lucky, he'll look at the Isles line-up at BOTH the NHL level and Bridgeport and get his name in the game asap.

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03-18-2013, 03:36 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
if his next tweet was, "Guys, IT'S THE ISLANDERS!!!" the meaning of that tweet above goes right back to where we're at.

What are the circumstances? Is it money? His treatment by NYI?

I don't think he's saying he's not going back into the draft.....sounds like he's trying to rationalize his desire to get more money by going back into the draft.

Which I can't blame him.....but I hope I'm wrong and he's saying he's not spurning the NYI but open to negotiate.
Considering he says "know the circumstances before you start hating" leads one to believe that it is true, he has turned down the Islanders, and it is for reasons other than getting drafted higher/more money.

It's all pure conjecture at this point, but he's right. No one on this board can rightfully say anything about his decision because we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. Snow could've told him he ****ed his mother and that's why he's turning it down, but of course you'd never hear that in the media. I'm sure Snow would never do that, but you get the point. There's more to the story, but it does sound like he's turned the Islanders down and is preparing for the "haters".

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Old
03-18-2013, 06:57 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by kuwo View Post
Thanks. I was also interested in the NHL salary and it is 640,000, 665,000 and 690,000 $. I wonder if those numbers are closer to Kichton's desire or Snow's offer.



I certainly agree, however I would say that no North American prospect demanding max ELC salary is professionally proven. And I'm also not sure how many true offensive PP QB prospects do the Isles have. Matt Donovan and? I don't see that kind of offensive output from our defensive prospects. Of course I have no idea if Kichton succeeds at the next level, however in my opinion it would not be wise to let a kid with his junior achievements go if money is the only problem.
It's all business , if they have the d they want , if the going rate is max for his accomplishments ,nyi could get a 3rd round pick for him , they move up two spots from where they got him, if they wait til June 1 they may have to settle for a 6 th or 7th round or nothing at all

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03-18-2013, 07:57 PM
  #100
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Hey guys, just wondering if you guys have any knowledge about how Kichton is able to reenter the draft. He should be a FA shouldn't he? Thanks.

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