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Old
03-18-2013, 02:41 PM
  #751
metmag
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
The attitude in Sweden is that Sweden does not care about KHL. It's a league that gets 0 spotlight in the news. I'm not saying NHL gets much, because NHLs spotlight is minimal too, but KHL gets 0 unless a plane crashes. There's no anti-russia attitude, it's simply as I said, people don't care about KHL, and we don't want to lose our rivalries. Noone would go watch a game against Bratislava or Prag or whatever, because there is no rivalry.
Yeah, thats like saying Sweden doesnt care about EBEL. Obviously they dont care about the KHL, why would they right now. I'm saying that Sweden would care alot if they iced a team in the KHL.

And again, forget the established clubs and rivalries. I'm talking about a new organization. Like HC Lev (refer to my older post)

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Old
03-18-2013, 02:42 PM
  #752
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The attitude in Sweden is that Sweden does not care about KHL. It's a league that gets 0 spotlight in the news. I'm not saying NHL gets much, because NHLs spotlight is minimal too, but KHL gets 0 unless a plane crashes. There's no anti-russia attitude, it's simply as I said, people don't care about KHL, and we don't want to lose our rivalries. Noone would go watch a game against Bratislava or Prag or whatever, because there is no rivalry. If KHL would take most of the clubs in SEL, form a nordic division with finnish, norwegian and danish clubs, the fans could be open to talk.
And it is a reason why I think that KHL does not want swedish club. It is better and easier for KHL to have clubs in Finland, Norway, Poland etc which lure best players of Elitserien.

I know fans in Sweden and Slovakia/Czech rep are different but the same arguments were here before joining KHL. Media did not care about KHL. NOW every day 2+ articles in every newspapers, websites, television, radio.. not about KHL as league but Slovan as club of KHL. It is less attention in Czech rep with Lev, but it wil increase.
Fans also said that no rivarly, did not care about KHL... NOW they follow russian clubs, know its players, care about them. Of course, not all, but definitelly more fans than before joining KHL

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03-18-2013, 02:42 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by metmag View Post
There is no problem with my reading. You stated that 'KHL has very few teams better than the SEL teams', when in fact it is quite the opposite.
Its hard to predict how exactly you expected me to interpret a nonsensical statement.
[mod], because you, as you [mod] has clearly not watched any of the top SEL teams if you think the bottom dwellers could dust them at any given moment. What a joke.


Last edited by stv11: 03-18-2013 at 06:11 PM. Reason: removed personal attack
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Old
03-18-2013, 02:52 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by metmag View Post
Yeah, thats like saying Sweden doesnt care about EBEL. Obviously they dont care about the KHL, why would they right now. I'm saying that Sweden would care alot if they iced a team in the KHL.

And again, forget the established clubs and rivalries. I'm talking about a new organization. Like HC Lev (refer to my older post)
(Dunno what EBEL is so can't comment on that, google says it's something with swizz watches.)
This discussion has already been done in another thread, and every single swedish poster agreed. (I think it's in the bussiness section, about a swedish club joining NHL or something).

You can not create a new club and expect people to follow it in Sweden.

If you want me to list the reason why, I can do it, but it should be very easy to figure out yourself. I'll just state the most obvious one. There would be 0 people going to the game.

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Old
03-18-2013, 02:56 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
(Dunno what EBEL is so can't comment on that)
This discussion has already been done in another thread, and every single swedish poster agreed. (I think it's in the bussiness section, about a swedish club joining NHL or something).

You can not create a new club and expect people to follow it in Sweden.

If you want me to list the reason why, I can do it, but it should be very easy to figure out yourself. I'll just state the most obvious one. There would be 0 people going to the game.
Why can you do it in the Czech Rebublic and have 7161 people fill the arena on average, and do the same thing in Sweden and have 0 people?

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03-18-2013, 03:00 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by metmag View Post
Why can you do it in the Czech Rebublic and have 7161 people fill the arena on average, and do the same thing in Sweden and have 0 people?
read my posts in this thread...

Quote:
IMO Swedes are more conservative than Czechs. Prague is center of Russians in Europe. Russians have big lobby/influence in Czech rep. That is one of reasons why HC Lev is succesfull. I am not sure the same enviroment is somewhere in Sweden.
Quote:
I know fans in Sweden and Slovakia/Czech rep are different but the same arguments were here before joining KHL. Media did not care about KHL. NOW every day 2+ articles in every newspapers, websites, television, radio.. not about KHL as league but Slovan as club of KHL. It is less attention in Czech rep with Lev, but it wil increase.
Fans also said that no rivarly, did not care about KHL... NOW they follow russian clubs, know its players, care about them. Of course, not all, but definitelly more fans than before joining KHL

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03-18-2013, 03:02 PM
  #757
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I don't know how people in Czech Rebublic works, but it's pretty obvious that if they were to create a new KHL club, they would do it in one of 3 cities: Malmö, Gothenburg or Stockholm.

Malmö: 90% football town, cares very little for hockey. Has been talks previously of this team joining KHL because the team has very slim chances of returning to the SEL anytime soon, and the arena owner is pressuring them.
Gothenburg: Football town, cares for hockey but has a popular team and people would not switch to support a new team. No room for a 2nd club.
Stockholm: Again, football town, but has 3 clubs in the 2 highest divisions, 2 of them with great fansupport, who would rather die than switch club. The supporters in stockholm are fanatics of their clubs.

Bottom line is: the 3 possible cities does not care, or does not want.

I've seen vorky write he dislikes arenas with less than 11,000 seats. No club outside of those 3 cities has any possibility what-so-ever of supporting an arena even close to that. Most SEL teams sit around 6000-7500, and very few of them gets sold out.

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03-18-2013, 03:06 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
I don't know how people in Czech Rebublic works, but it's pretty obvious that if they were to create a new KHL club, they would do it in one of 3 cities: Malmö, Gothenburg or Stockholm.

Malmö: 90% football town, cares very little for hockey. Has been talks previously of this team joining KHL because the team has very slim chances of returning to the SEL anytime soon, and the arena owner is pressuring them.
Gothenburg: Football town, cares for hockey but has a popular team and people would not switch to support a new team. No room for a 2nd club.
Stockholm: Again, football town, but has 3 clubs in the 2 highest divisions, 2 of them with great fansupport, who would rather die than switch club. The supporters in stockholm are fanatics of their clubs.

Bottom line is: the 3 possible cities does not care, or does not want.

I've seen vorky write he dislikes arenas with less than 11,000 seats. No club outside of those 3 cities has any possibility what-so-ever of supporting an arena even close to that. Most SEL teams sit around 6000-7500, and very few of them gets sold out.
That is how I see it as well, but not living in Sweden

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03-18-2013, 03:12 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
you has clearly not watched any of the top SEL teams if you think the bottom dwellers could dust them at any given moment. What a joke.
I have watched enough SEL to know that your best teams would not even be able to contend for playoff spots in the KHL.

There is no denying that top SEL team are great, among the best in Europe. And you may even be capable of beating a good KHL team sometime during exhibitions or preseason. But even the Best SEL team would sink in a regular 54 game KHL season from playing against Dynamo, SKA, CSKA, Donbass, Severstal, Lokomotiv, and Torpedo on a regular basis. And thats just the west. I would feel sorry if Frolunda had to go on a trip to hit up Salavat, Ak-Bars, and Metallurg, when everyone is trying to rack up points mid-end season.

SEL teams have good players and solid lines in some cases, but there is a major lack of dept. And I'm sorry, but your SuperElit callups just wouldn't work the same way they do in the KHL.


Last edited by stv11: 03-18-2013 at 06:12 PM. Reason: edited quote
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Old
03-18-2013, 03:15 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by metmag View Post
My statement was a response to your absurd claim. I have watched enough SEL to know that your best teams would not even be able to contend for playoff spots in the KHL.

There is no denying that top SEL team are great, among the best in Europe. And you may even be capable of beating a good KHL team sometime during exhibitions or preseason. But even the Best SEL team would sink in a regular 54 game KHL season from playing against Dynamo, SKA, CSKA, Donbass, Severstal, Lokomotiv, and Torpedo on a regular basis. And thats just the west. I would feel sorry if Frolunda had to go on a trip to hit up Salavat, Ak-Bars, and Metallurg, when everyone is trying to rack up points mid-end season.

SEL teams have good players and solid lines in some cases, but there is a major lack of dept. And I'm sorry, but your SuperElit callups just wouldn't work the same way they do in the KHL.
But you did write
Quote:
Everybody knows that this years KHL bottom dwellers Riga, Amur, Yugra, and even Vityaz can dust any top Eliteserien team at any given moment.
and that is a complete joke. I'm done with this anyways, if you care to discuss it more we can take it to PMs to not derail the thread more. If you send me anything worthwhile of replying to I will.

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Old
03-18-2013, 03:29 PM
  #761
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Do you honestly believe that a Mestis club could not get better sponsors if they played in the worlds next best league, above the Finnish national league, and that fans that thinks Mestis is boring and won't attend the games would feel the same way about KHL?

Also Arena size is not much of a problem at all. New arenas can be built and existing arenas can be upgraded.
I suggest you do some research on the Mestis clubs, their cities and their budgets and the economic situation in their communities and in Finland general. It might be an eye opener. The only new arenas being built are the one in Tampere and the HIFK(and that 4-5 years from being finished and plans could even change yet).

Mestis winner this season was Jukurit from Mikkeli. They will start the qualifiying series against Ilves on Friday but it's well known that even if they beat Ilves, they will not afford to buy out Ilves' SM-Liiga stock (about 2 million euros) and still build a competitive team for the. Their arena is also not yet up to SM-Liiga level even though it's just enough size wise (just over 4000) which they also have had trouble filling even though they've won Mestis several times before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metmag View Post
Why can you do it in the Czech Rebublic and have 7161 people fill the arena on average, and do the same thing in Sweden and have 0 people?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
I don't know how people in Czech Rebublic works, but it's pretty obvious that if they were to create a new KHL club, they would do it in one of 3 cities: Malmö, Gothenburg or Stockholm.

Malmö: 90% football town, cares very little for hockey. Has been talks previously of this team joining KHL because the team has very slim chances of returning to the SEL anytime soon, and the arena owner is pressuring them.
Gothenburg: Football town, cares for hockey but has a popular team and people would not switch to support a new team. No room for a 2nd club.
Stockholm: Again, football town, but has 3 clubs in the 2 highest divisions, 2 of them with great fansupport, who would rather die than switch club. The supporters in stockholm are fanatics of their clubs.

Bottom line is: the 3 possible cities does not care, or does not want.
I'd say that Finns and Swedish are similar in two aspects. We're extremely fanatical or loyal to our local sports teams and we're also very stubborn. Fans are not interested in seeing KHL teams (excluding exhibition games or European Champions league type of events), they want to see their FBK, Frölunda, AIK, Djurgåden, MoDo, Luleå, Brynäs, Jokeir, HIFK, TPS, Kärpät, TAppara, Ässät etc.

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Old
03-18-2013, 03:31 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by metmag View Post
Why can you do it in the Czech Rebublic and have 7161 people fill the arena on average, and do the same thing in Sweden and have 0 people?
You are comparing countries with massive poverty and overall rough conditions to one of the most developed countries on the planet? Putting an club in sweden and trying to stamp it with "interesting" will mean nothing, as will weak propaganda mind you, analyzing and criticising is second nature to swedes.

But all in all whether or not any fan interest is there is irrelevant, like håkan loob said before how these people involved in this deal with things is downright maffia, it's not worthy of a swede. So any incentive to support this stops there anyways.

Depending on the economy it could take quite a few centuries before most of these eastern countries have caught up to swedens society and there can be equal terms. No matter how much some people here may want it you cant just feel a rivalry with someone you feel sorry for, it's not how human emotions work.

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03-18-2013, 03:34 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by metmag View Post

Everybody knows that this years KHL bottom dwellers Riga, Amur, Yugra, and even Vityaz can dust any top Eliteserien team at any given moment.
I think you overrate the KHL here. The KHL is the best league in Europe but it's not superior to Elitserien in all aspects. I don't think Amur or Vityaz would win the Elitserien championships.

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Old
03-18-2013, 03:34 PM
  #764
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But all in all whether or not any fan interest is there is irrelevant, like håkan loob said before how these people involved in this deal with things is downright maffia, it's not worthy of a swede. So any incentive to support this stops there anyways.
and therefore European Trophy invited KHL team to its final at december 2013.

Call it maffia, oligarchs or so... but what is important is money and influence and Russians have it. Swedes dont.

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03-18-2013, 03:42 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
and therefore European Trophy invited KHL team to its final at december 2013.

Call it maffia, oligarchs or so... but what is important is money and influence and Russians have it. Swedes dont.
Money, corruption and poor rhetoric may have a big say in the eastern countries, but sweden is a little different from that. I guess you cant blame people from there for thinking that it is okey since they dont know any better, so i wont hold it against you.

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Old
03-18-2013, 03:53 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by Dosing View Post
Money, corruption and poor rhetoric may have a big say in the eastern countries, but sweden is a little different from that. I guess you cant blame people from there for thinking that it is okey since they dont know any better, so i wont hold it against you.
Corruption is everywhere, even in Sweden, I am sure. Maybe not so big as other countries have. Btw, I heard of story about your king and his past...

My point is to warn you as Swede that if Russians (KHL) wanted, they would "destroy" your league because they have money and influence. By destroy I mean luring all best Elitserien players and doing thing Champions League style of competition dont survive

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03-18-2013, 03:54 PM
  #767
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I'm really getting tired of this nonsense of "No one will come watch the best team in my home country!" b.s. that we have heard many times. How many times does this have to be proven wrong? You guys sound like Scandinavian Don Cherry's, all because lets face it, you don't like the country that started the KHL. How many times do we need to hear the same crap about storied rivalries? All it will take is Evgeni Artyukhin to kick the crap out of a few of your guys and your fans will be dying for the home team to get revenge next time. You don't think people in Scandinavia will show up to see the local boys take on the "the minions of the evil Russian oil oligarchy?" Grow up and welcome to the 21st century. Keeping things the same just because "we've always done it that way" worth ****.

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03-18-2013, 03:59 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by VladNYC View Post
I'm really getting tired of this nonsense of "No one will come watch the best team in my home country!" b.s. that we have heard many times. How many times does this have to be proven wrong? You guys sound like Scandinavian Don Cherry's, all because lets face it, you don't like the country that started the KHL. How many times do we need to hear the same crap about storied rivalries? All it will take is Evgeni Artyukhin to kick the crap out of a few of your guys and your fans will be dying for the home team to get revenge next time. You don't think people in Scandinavia will show up to see the local boys take on the "the minions of the evil Russian oil oligarchy?" Grow up and welcome to the 21st century. Keeping things the same just because "we've always done it that way" worth ****.
Post this on any swedish forum/website and people will laugh at you. What a redicilous post. If you don't know what you're talking about, stop talking. Why are Djurgården fans still fans of the club after being sent down to 2nd division when the same city has a team in the SEL? How come stockholm has a bunch of football clubs, some in the 2nd division, with your sad logic they should have 0 fans, since the same city has 3 clubs in the top division. You go to watch the team you support, not the one that wins.

If this is how sports is in Russia, I feel sorry for you, honestly. What a bunch of winning-team-joiners, beyond pathetic.

Quote:
My point is to warn you as Swede that if Russians (KHL) wanted, they would "destroy" your league because they have money and influence. By destroy I mean luring all best Elitserien players and doing thing Champions League style of competition dont survive
Why has it not happend yet? It should be their goal right, to get the best players to create the best league. Seems they are doing a very bad job of destroying SEL, even though they could whenever they wanted.


Last edited by Jonimaus: 03-18-2013 at 04:16 PM.
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Old
03-18-2013, 04:01 PM
  #769
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Money, corruption and poor rhetoric may have a big say in the eastern countries, but sweden is a little different from that. I guess you cant blame people from there for thinking that it is okey since they dont know any better, so i wont hold it against you.
That KHL team that was "invited" just happened to be the host of the finals...

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03-18-2013, 04:04 PM
  #770
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Corruption is everywhere, even in Sweden, I am sure. Maybe not so big as other countries have. Btw, I heard of story about your king and his past...

My point is to warn you as Swede that if Russians (KHL) wanted, they would "destroy" your league because they have money and influence. By destroy I mean luring all best Elitserien players and doing thing Champions League style of competition dont survive
Sounds like only big talk, which funny enough have historically always been the case with russians.

Rather then burry your head in the sand you should try to get past the anger and grow, grow into a people that eventually can be interesting to a swede.

Also the king has no real power so failed "point", our political leaders would get eaten alive by the media followed by everyone else so yes it is very different.

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03-18-2013, 04:04 PM
  #771
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Post this on any swedish forum/website and people will laugh at you. What a redicilous post. If you don't know what you're talking about, stop talking. Why are Djurgården fans still fans of the club after being sent down to 2nd division when the same city has a team in the SEL? How come stockholm has a bunch of football clubs, some in the 2nd division, with your sad logic they should have 0 fans, since the same team has 3 clubs in the top division. You go to watch the team you support, not the one that wins.

If this is how sports is in Russia, I feel sorry for you, honestly. What a bunch of winning-team-joiners, beyond pathetic.
I find it astonishing how some Russian posters/KHL fans automatically think that what worked in Russia/Slovakia/Czech Rep must automatically work in Finland and Sweden where the state of hockey and financial situations are vastly different than in SVK/CZE.

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03-18-2013, 04:16 PM
  #772
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I'm really getting tired of this nonsense of "No one will come watch the best team in my home country!" b.s. that we have heard many times. How many times does this have to be proven wrong? You guys sound like Scandinavian Don Cherry's, all because lets face it, you don't like the country that started the KHL. How many times do we need to hear the same crap about storied rivalries? All it will take is Evgeni Artyukhin to kick the crap out of a few of your guys and your fans will be dying for the home team to get revenge next time. You don't think people in Scandinavia will show up to see the local boys take on the "the minions of the evil Russian oil oligarchy?" Grow up and welcome to the 21st century. Keeping things the same just because "we've always done it that way" worth ****.
This.

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03-18-2013, 04:18 PM
  #773
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I find it astonishing how some Russian posters/KHL fans automatically think that what worked in Russia/Slovakia/Czech Rep must automatically work in Finland and Sweden where the state of hockey and financial situations are vastly different than in SVK/CZE.
I'm not sure if it's sad or funny that the Russian/Canadian posters in this thread seem to know swedish/finnish hockey culture better than us living here. Not sure if there's a point to continue, since it seems no matter what we write, they just don't get how people can be fans of clubs that are not successful or playing in the top division or switch over to a new team that's better.

All in all, I am very happy though sports works like it does over here, I wouldn't want it like how they have it.

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03-18-2013, 04:25 PM
  #774
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During the current discussion all that has come out of that side has been "this is how it works in other countries so it is the same in sweden/finland." I don't agree with it, and I don't value it in any way. It's not even a discussion. Every Swede and Fin who has joined this discussion has been agreeing with eachother, and every Russian and Canadian has been disagreeing with us, about hockey culture in Sweden/Finland, do you realize how messed up that is? If this was me vs you all, it would be one thing, but it's not, not anymore.


Last edited by stv11: 03-18-2013 at 06:14 PM. Reason: removed deleted quote
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03-18-2013, 04:30 PM
  #775
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Corruption is everywhere, even in Sweden, I am sure. Maybe not so big as other countries have. Btw, I heard of story about your king and his past...

My point is to warn you as Swede that if Russians (KHL) wanted, they would "destroy" your league because they have money and influence. By destroy I mean luring all best Elitserien players and doing thing Champions League style of competition dont survive
Sorry, but this is kind of stupid...

I don't like the attitude "join us or we will lure all of your best players and destroy your league".

The main goal for the KHL should be the development of Russian hockey. Nothing else should matter. The KHL needs foreign players and foreign teams are OK too (as long as they can finance themselves without Russian money) but it should not aim to dominate all of European hockey. Russian hockey does not benefit at all if there are a dozen foreign but Russian financed western European teams playing in the KHL.

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