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Hodgson Trade Discussion

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Old
03-17-2013, 11:21 PM
  #801
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I do believe hodgson is an RFA in July 5th so the sabres are going to have to over pay him.

better them than us.

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03-18-2013, 12:01 AM
  #802
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I do believe hodgson is an RFA in July 5th so the sabres are going to have to over pay him.

better them than us.
yup better for us to overpay someone like David Booth with his 1 goal in the open net.

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03-18-2013, 03:31 AM
  #803
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yup better for us to overpay someone like David Booth with his 1 goal in the open net.
Yes because we signed him to that contract.

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03-18-2013, 03:33 AM
  #804
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Yes because we signed him to that contract.
We traded for that contract. Just as dumb.

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03-18-2013, 03:43 AM
  #805
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We traded for that contract. Just as dumb.
Not really considering we gave up a bad contract in Sturm. And a pending UFA in Sammuelsson for a guy who consistently had been a 2nd line scorer.

And 4 Mill is about what 2nd line wingers were making under the old CBA.

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03-18-2013, 06:22 AM
  #806
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Watched the Sabres Caps game last night.

Cody on 1st PP, 2nd PK, had 2G and like 25% in the faceoff circle. Skating still bad but he's always in the right place to drive the offence.

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03-18-2013, 07:12 AM
  #807
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Fill our needs? At what part do we need Kassian on this team right now? We have plenty of pluggers in Pinizotto, Weise and Sesito... WHAT WE DON'T HAVE... is a center..

You know your team is poop when Ebbett and Maxim Lappiere is your number 2 and 3 centers.

This is where many people are misinformed... just because that arrogant GM of ours say Kassian fills our need and Hodgson doesn't, it doesn't mean this is true. The only reason he is still saying that is to save face.

Fact stands, we lost this trade. We need Hodgson centering a line then a plug like Kassian.
To be fair, in theory Kassian is more of an 'AV-type' player than Hodgson, and I think the Hodgson/AV relationship was already poisoned.

The trade makes perfect sense because at the time we picked up Pahlsson who was the kind of 3C AV prefers, Kesler was 'healthy', Malhotra was 'healthy', and we still had Ebbett and Schroeder on the farm. Too bad Pahlsson turned out to suck and Kes and Manny got hurt longterm. But there was no way to predict that at the time of the trade.

At the time, Gillis probably said - I have a good prospect who can't coexist with the coach, and I can get a comparable prospect in return who should (on paper) coexist with the coach. Easy trade. It just looks bad because we've yo-yo'd Kassian around the lineup and CoHo stepped onto a team that has been desperate (perceived or otherwise) for a 1C for a long time so they weren't afraid to play him as one despite his wrinkles.

Then we found out that AV is just going to treat Kassian and Schroeder exactly the way he treated Hodgson, so is it really our young guys who are the problem?

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Old
03-18-2013, 08:19 AM
  #808
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To be fair, in theory Kassian is more of an 'AV-type' player than Hodgson, and I think the Hodgson/AV relationship was already poisoned.

The trade makes perfect sense because at the time we picked up Pahlsson who was the kind of 3C AV prefers, Kesler was 'healthy', Malhotra was 'healthy', and we still had Ebbett and Schroeder on the farm. Too bad Pahlsson turned out to suck and Kes and Manny got hurt longterm. But there was no way to predict that at the time of the trade.

At the time, Gillis probably said - I have a good prospect who can't coexist with the coach, and I can get a comparable prospect in return who should (on paper) coexist with the coach. Easy trade. It just looks bad because we've yo-yo'd Kassian around the lineup and CoHo stepped onto a team that has been desperate (perceived or otherwise) for a 1C for a long time so they weren't afraid to play him as one despite his wrinkles.

Then we found out that AV is just going to treat Kassian and Schroeder exactly the way he treated Hodgson, so is it really our young guys who are the problem?
He treated Bieksa, Edler, Kesler, Burrows, Raymond, Schnieder and Hansen the same way too, because that is how you develop talent, but none of them whined about it. The constant insinuations that AV is poor at player development are absurd, we are the envy of the NHL and we owe that to the coach.

And where are the Sabres in the standings anyways? And with all that young talent going bust all over the place... wonder why that is?

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03-18-2013, 09:43 AM
  #809
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He treated Bieksa, Edler, Kesler, Burrows, Raymond, Schnieder and Hansen the same way too, because that is how you develop talent, but none of them whined about it. The constant insinuations that AV is poor at player development are absurd, we are the envy of the NHL and we owe that to the coach.

And where are the Sabres in the standings anyways? And with all that young talent going bust all over the place... wonder why that is?
Funny that you mention Bieksa & Edler. Both are hardly top four defenders right now. If anything, they look like they're regressing (especially in Edler's case) for a while now.

If both of them were just playing at the level they should be at (or close to it) - we wouldn't be having these "fire AV" threads.

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03-18-2013, 10:28 AM
  #810
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Watched the Sabres Caps game last night.

Cody on 1st PP, 2nd PK, had 2G and like 25% in the faceoff circle. Skating still bad but he's always in the right place to drive the offence.
And they lost. One of the major issues the Sabres have is that they have players being put in situations way beyond their depth, especially up front. That includes Hodgson.

I'm sure many haven't really noticed but Hodgson is essentially hit or miss during a game. His ppg pace has decreased significantly since the first 10 games. What he is right now is not much different than what the canucks already have on the roster in the form of Raymond, Higgins, and Hansen. Now I understand everyone thinks a crystal ball should have been used and they should have kept an unhappy camper around for "just in case" but many of those same people bemoan the fact the canucks are missing another true game breaker up front. Well Hodgson ISN'T that game breaker.


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03-18-2013, 10:36 AM
  #811
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And they lost. One of the major issues the Sabres have is that they have players being put in situations way beyond their depth, especially up front. That includes Hodgson.
I've never been much of a Hodgson fan, but credit to him, at least he's scoring. Schroeder gets put in over his head in much shallower water, and can't score and goes -5.

 
Old
03-18-2013, 10:40 AM
  #812
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I've never been much of a Hodgson fan, but credit to him, at least he's scoring. Schroeder gets put in over his head in much shallower water, and can't score and goes -5.
To be fair, Hodgson is and always was a much better prospect than Schroeder.

I've never been high on Schroeder. Surprised he's played this many NHL games really, more than I thought he'd get. Though goes to show you that the cupboard is pretty bare more than anything.

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03-18-2013, 10:51 AM
  #813
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To be fair, Hodgson is and always was a much better prospect than Schroeder.
Schroeder was a "home run swing" type of prospect. Hodgson was like Ted Williams going to bat.

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03-18-2013, 11:30 AM
  #814
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I've never been much of a Hodgson fan, but credit to him, at least he's scoring. Schroeder gets put in over his head in much shallower water, and can't score and goes -5.
He scored yesterday. He didn't the previous 5 games. I'm not running the kid down as he's a good prospect to be sure. But he isn't scoring any more than other guys who are essentially on a 50ish point pace the last 20 games. The last 20 games I believe Hodgson is on a 60 or so point pace. Put Raymond, Higgins, or hansen in that same position, with similar quality linemates getting that increased icetime and they also would be scoring at that pace instead of a 45 point pace. Hodgson hasn't done anything special except find himself on a team who had no centers and one center they did have got into it with the coach at the end of the previous season and got a flight out of town.

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03-18-2013, 11:43 AM
  #815
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He scored yesterday. He didn't the previous 5 games. I'm not running the kid down as he's a good prospect to be sure. But he isn't scoring any more than other guys who are essentially on a 50ish point pace the last 20 games. The last 20 games I believe Hodgson is on a 60 or so point pace. Put Raymond, Higgins, or hansen in that same position, with similar quality linemates getting that increased icetime and they also would be scoring at that pace instead of a 45 point pace. Hodgson hasn't done anything special except find himself on a team who had no centers and one center they did have got into it with the coach at the end of the previous season and got a flight out of town.
We have a long history of putting players with the Sedins, better players with more offensive oppurtunity. Burrows has hit a similar pace once, that's it.

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03-18-2013, 11:54 AM
  #816
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We have a long history of putting players with the Sedins, better players with more offensive oppurtunity. Burrows has hit a similar pace once, that's it.
Borrows was and still his a great defensive player. And with not alot of time on the PP with the twins (at least when Kesler is in the lineup).

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03-18-2013, 12:28 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Schroeder was a "home run swing" type of prospect. Hodgson was like Ted Williams going to bat.
Funny how Gillis used Schroeder as a reason why they traded Hodgson away.

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03-18-2013, 12:35 PM
  #818
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Funny how Gillis used Schroeder as a reason why they traded Hodgson away.
Really?

Could you post a link to that statement, please.

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03-18-2013, 12:37 PM
  #819
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Funny how Gillis used Schroeder as a reason why they traded Hodgson away.
He never did that.

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03-18-2013, 02:10 PM
  #820
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We have a long history of putting players with the Sedins, better players with more offensive oppurtunity. Burrows has hit a similar pace once, that's it.
Yes the canucks do. Thing is Hodgson couldn't play the wing...they tried that to get him up the lineup and he was horrible. And he wasn't as good as Henrik or Kesler (still isn't) so wasn't going to draw the better wingers or icetime. Coupled with the issues that is the short of why Hodgson isn't a canuck.

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03-18-2013, 05:25 PM
  #821
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And what basis? The basis that playing alongside Tomas Vanek, and going on the offensive tear he has been on that he has been on for 4 more GA than GF, and you add to that Vanek is a + player. Also that his faceoff percentage is 47% and that he is the 1st line center on the 29th place team. He is great offensively, but needs to improve his defensive game.

If this isn't crying then why don't we open up a Sammuelsson trade discussion aswell, oh and how about a Neely trade discussion. And why not open an Evan O'Berg trade discussion thread while we are at all of that?

This thread paints all Canuck fans as ********. Since a group of fans continue to question MG for trading a played that requested a trade.
Newsflash for "faceoff percentage" trumpeters: if you're "winning" (typically undefined, anyway) between 45 - 54% of faceoffs - IE, practically the entire league's range - you're winning 1 of 2 faceoffs. Nothing more, nothing less. Is Max Lapierre, at 50.4%, really any better than Hodgson, at 46.1%? The answer is no, not really. That means that out of 100 draws taken, Lapierre will probably "win" 4 more than Cody will. "Win", of course, mostly being undefined and 50/50, anyway, and 4/100 "better" amounts to 1 draw every 2 or 3 games.

Faceoff % is just another example of the unnecessary analysis for the sake of analysis amongst these so-called "advanced statisticians". In almost all cases, it's just not going to affect a game's outcome that much.

And as for your last paragraph - Roberto Luongo's also requested a trade, why hasn't Gillis dealt with that? Why did he feel so compelled to dump Cody Hodgson as soon as he could, yet he's taking a diametrically different strategy with Lou?

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03-18-2013, 05:32 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Not really considering we gave up a bad contract in Sturm. And a pending UFA in Sammuelsson for a guy who consistently had been a 2nd line scorer.

And 4 Mill is about what 2nd line wingers were making under the old CBA.
Booth's contract was for 4 years and Sammy and Sturm was for 1 more year. The salary dump was on us that trade.

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Old
03-18-2013, 05:33 PM
  #823
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Not really considering we gave up a bad contract in Sturm. And a pending UFA in Sammuelsson for a guy who consistently had been a 2nd line scorer.

And 4 Mill is about what 2nd line wingers were making under the old CBA.
The Sturm contract was one that was executed by our GM only a few months earlier.

And you clearly don't seem to understand the value of cap space, which is legitimate. In the NBA, cap space is typically the prime consideration of one side of any trade. It's going to be very similar in the NHL, if it's not already.

It was a reasonable gamble, in theory, to trade for Booth, but it didn't work, and that ultimately lands on the shoulders of our GM.

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03-18-2013, 05:35 PM
  #824
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Schroeder was a "home run swing" type of prospect. Hodgson was like Ted Williams going to bat.
I disagree. Schroeder was actually expected to be drafted a lot higher. Teams got scared off by the fact that he's 5'3", and he fell to us. I thought it was an excellent pick, at the time, and I think Schroeder showed a lot of good signs when he was with us earlier.

He's definitely talented enough to be a top-six C, IMO. Lack of size does not concern me in the least.

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03-18-2013, 05:46 PM
  #825
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And as for your last paragraph - Roberto Luongo's also requested a trade, why hasn't Gillis dealt with that? Why did he feel so compelled to dump Cody Hodgson as soon as he could, yet he's taking a diametrically different strategy with Lou?
Likely because Lou and his camp isn't being a daily pain in the ass.

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