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Is this the worst line-up this team has iced in the last decade?

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Old
03-17-2013, 01:18 PM
  #51
pahlsson
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
I actually like our forwards lol. It's our defense that has been just awful.
on paper the forwards are producing about as much as you'd expect them to be (aside from the putrid PP), it's the D that's consistently underperforming from what it looks like on paper

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03-17-2013, 01:24 PM
  #52
dave babych returns
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If I remember right, Naslund got 25 goals under that defensive system and Morrison went on to get another couple contracts.


That's just about the most charitable way I can think of to say that he was a shadow of the player he was at his peak. Morrison also played hurt most of his last two years here..

As for Naslund's production, sure. He scored 25 and offered little else his last year here.

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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Shannon did some damage in Ottawa ...
And other than that the vast majority of the lineup was either out of the league or career fourth liners within a year or so.

And Ottawa is one of the teams being talked about here as having the worst forward depth in the league, so yeah not exactly a ringing endorsement of Ryan Shannon.

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Old
03-17-2013, 01:57 PM
  #53
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With everyone saying how bad our defence has been I think it's a reflection on over valuing Garrison and not having the pairings gel OR given clear roles. Hamhuis / Bieksa was a bank pairing during our cup run. It can be there again but just needs better role definement (coaching *ahem*). Edler / Tanev is precarious as I really like how Tanev plays though i'd like to see a few more hits. Edler is trying to do too much and gets caught. Edler needs to simplify his game.

And the head scratcher is Ballard sitting all the time which is (coaching *ahem*). Alberts is a lost puppy out there and plays too much with the top lines to make any sort of sembelence of a break out pass. Barker... Well.

I'm not sold on Garrison to be honest. I think he's easily pressured off the puck or into making a bad pass. His passes are off the mark and his shot is too. I don't see a $5M defenceman here.

I think Gillis missed the mark in Steckl going to Anaheim for literally a late draft pick. He's excellent on the faceoff and while he is a big body he doesn't use his size effectively but to replace Malhotras defensive zone draws alone would be great.

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03-17-2013, 02:10 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Hyack57 View Post
With everyone saying how bad our defence has been I think it's a reflection on over valuing Garrison and not having the pairings gel OR given clear roles. Hamhuis / Bieksa was a bank pairing during our cup run. It can be there again but just needs better role definement (coaching *ahem*). Edler / Tanev is precarious as I really like how Tanev plays though i'd like to see a few more hits. Edler is trying to do too much and gets caught. Edler needs to simplify his game.

And the head scratcher is Ballard sitting all the time which is (coaching *ahem*). Alberts is a lost puppy out there and plays too much with the top lines to make any sort of sembelence of a break out pass. Barker... Well.

I'm not sold on Garrison to be honest. I think he's easily pressured off the puck or into making a bad pass. His passes are off the mark and his shot is too. I don't see a $5M defenceman here.


Vancouver has a habit of overpaying free agent players. Garrison is not worth 5 mil. If they didnt give him the cash another misinformed team with big pockets would have. Erhoff is twice the player Jason is and also better than Edler.
Booth another waste. Whats next? Being forced to pay Raymond 5 a year or trading for Gaborik who makes 7.5.
Ballard should be playing but im assuming is bought out if they cant trade him.
This team has more problems than a lack of chemistry or ineffective play by the defense. Last nights game was a disaster. Canucks need help with top six as well and now Booth is injured.
I cant blame the GM. Canucks cant expect great drafts when they never pick top 10.

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Old
03-17-2013, 02:22 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Have you missed our GDTs? Regardless, there is nothing wrong with calling a bad team... a bad team.
"Bad" teams don't make the playoffs.

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Old
03-17-2013, 02:35 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
Vancouver has a habit of overpaying free agent players. Garrison is not worth 5 mil. If they didnt give him the cash another misinformed team with big pockets would have. Erhoff is twice the player Jason is and also better than Edler.
Booth another waste. Whats next? Being forced to pay Raymond 5 a year or trading for Gaborik who makes 7.5.
Ballard should be playing but im assuming is bought out if they cant trade him.
This team has more problems than a lack of chemistry or ineffective play by the defense. Last nights game was a disaster. Canucks need help with top six as well and now Booth is injured.
I cant blame the GM. Canucks cant expect great drafts when they never pick top 10.
By definition, if someone is willing to pay Garrison 5 million, does that not make him worth 5 million? Forget his 17 goal season last year, that was almost definitely an anomaly, but very good defensive skills, reasonably physical and a big shot. You're right, someone would pay him that. I don't think 4.6 is a steal, but it's below what he could have got last summer.

Ehrhoffs gone, make peace with it. It wasn't the cap hit or even the actual money, it was the term that scared Gillis off.

Booth wasn't a free agent, we traded a dead roster space (Sturm) and a UFA that wasn't performing (Samuelsson) for Booth, a cap dump in the minors and a pick. Injuries aside, which any one could see coming given his history, and he hasn't performed poorly for his cap hit.

Raymond was given this year to turn it around, and he has been sparking other players. 5 million is lofty, but given the number of other UFAs and likely trade/buyout candidates, we're likely keeping him.

Ballard woefully miscast here, but I agree he should be playing, as even not being "great" under this system, he's been a steady defenceman and has been far, far better then Alberts.

Chemistry is both the coaching (who never seems to be able to keep a good thing going) and management, who for all our talk of depth has Andrew Ebbett playing a top six center role with two third liners, after 2 injuries in our top six.

This isn't a good year for us, and a single trade won't fix that. I'm ready to cast off some of the ballast for picks or prospects and restock for next year.

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Old
03-17-2013, 02:50 PM
  #57
Derp Kassian
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Originally Posted by The Optimist View Post
"Bad" teams don't make the playoffs.
Yes they do, see Panthers last year.

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03-17-2013, 04:27 PM
  #58
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Just by virtue of having a healthy defensive group and Luongo/Schneider, it's not the worst lineup in the last ten years.

Besides, there are still options-- It's more just a case of weird coaching-- we could still do something like this, couldn't we?

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Higgins - Burrows - Hansen
Raymond - Schroeder - Jensen
Pinizotto - Lapierre - Weise

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Tanev
Garrison - Ballard

Luongo
Schneider.

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03-17-2013, 04:29 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
Just by virtue of having a healthy defensive group and Luongo/Schneider, it's not the worst lineup in the last ten years.

Besides, there are still options-- It's more just a case of weird coaching-- we could still do something like this, couldn't we?

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Higgins - Burrows - Hansen
Raymond - Schroeder - Jensen
Pinizotto - Lapierre - Weise

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Tanev
Garrison - Ballard

Luongo
Schneider.
I like Higgins at center more than Burrows but yeah, this roster isn't as bad as it has to be.

We could do really well just playing simple structured hockey until we're healthy.

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03-17-2013, 04:31 PM
  #60
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I don't think this is the worst lineup this team has iced in the last decade. It's just the worst executed team. This is basically the roster we had when we went to the SCF. I don't think any roster moves have made us worse or significantly better either.

Execution is poor, hence the terrible results.

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03-17-2013, 04:35 PM
  #61
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We could have two scoring lines and two checking lines if AV pulled his head out of his ass:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Raymond-Schroeder-Hansen

Both lines can score, Schroeder at least can skate fast enough with RayRay and Honey Badger to keep up so he would at least fit better than Ebbett in that situation. Give them good offensive starts and favourable minutes if possible

Higgins-Ebbett-Kassian
Weise-Lapierre-Sestito/Pinner

Two checking/kind of energy lines. Ebbett and Laps are decent on draws so they can handle more defensive minutes. Ebbett might not be stellar defensively but Higgins can probably cover him.

It's not great but it doesn't have to be awful like it is. Each line has an identity and role, Sedins are skilled high scoring, the Schredder line is fast and can generate good offense as well, kind of Kesler-lite-lite line. Ebbett line just has to play solid hockey in their own end and collapse on the net and the Laps line is energy/pest line.

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Old
03-17-2013, 04:37 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Derp Kassian View Post
Yes they do, see Panthers last year.
While I agree that bad teams can make the playoffs. The Panthers weren't a bad team last year. The took the EC champs to game 7 overtime and had solid contributors all through the line up.

This year they've had lots of key injuries, lost players to FA and failed to replace them, and their biggest issue from last year(goaltending) has continued to get worse.

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Old
03-17-2013, 04:51 PM
  #63
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I still think Naslund's last year when we had Krajicek, Aaron Miller, etc. on our D was worse. The Sedins still didn't have a proper linemate (was it still Taylor Pyatt at the time? Or Steve Bernier?) Luongo had his worst season as a Canuck (that run in March when he had his kid was brutal, and we didn't have a Schneider to stop the bleeding). We missed the playoffs and actually had the 10th overall pick to draft Hodgson with. This team is talented enough to at least win the division, we've just executed horribly and been downright incompetent on the PP.

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Old
03-17-2013, 04:59 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by pahlsson View Post
on paper the forwards are producing about as much as you'd expect them to be (aside from the putrid PP), it's the D that's consistently underperforming from what it looks like on paper
I feel like we're aren't worse than last year's team, it's just that the goalies aren't bailing us out every night like they were last year. And yes, Hamhuis hasn't been as solid as he usually is.

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03-17-2013, 05:29 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Higgins - Burrows - Hansen
Raymond -

Edler - Tanev
Without a doubt the worse lineup in a decade.

Schroeder - Jensen
Pinizotto - Lapierre - Weise shouldn't even be in the NHL and the corps of D-men except the 2 mentioned are pretty useless on a regular basis.

1st round exit in 5 games..........doesn't matter who they play,unless our goalies stand on their heads.

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03-17-2013, 06:11 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by ZZZZZZZ View Post
Without a doubt the worse lineup in a decade.

Schroeder - Jensen
Pinizotto - Lapierre - Weise shouldn't even be in the NHL and the corps of D-men except the 2 mentioned are pretty useless on a regular basis.

1st round exit in 5 games..........doesn't matter who they play,unless our goalies stand on their heads.
Ugh... have you even seen Weise plays? He's an excellent 4th liner with 3rd line up-side at some point. He's fast, he can fit, he's got a bit of offensive skills, and he's very defensively responsible.

Pinizotto-Lapierre-Weise is probably the best 4th line we've ever had. All three are skilled grinders, they all have wheels, they can all hit, and they all know how to play defensively. That's as good as you can ask.

Talent on this roster is clearly there, we're just missing a traditional third line checking center and obviously Ryan Kesler. In terms of offence, we have 5 wingers who are performing at a top-six clip: Daniel, Burrows, Higgins, Hansen and Raymond. Booth should honestly be performing at the same pace with his level of play, but I guess God wasn't too happy when he killed Falcore and banished him to a snakebitten hell. The Canucks aren't short on talented wingers. Their problem is that they just lost two of their important centers in Malhotra and Kesler.

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:12 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
Mitchell Bieksa
Ohlund Salo
Edler Miller
I'd take that group over the current group, for sure. Not by a huge margin, but I'd take 'em.

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03-17-2013, 06:15 PM
  #68
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I'd take that group over the current group, for sure. Not by a huge margin, but I'd take 'em.
Seriously? Hamhuis and Garrison are huge improvements over Mitchell and Salo.

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03-17-2013, 06:17 PM
  #69
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If your definition of a decade is 3 years, then yes, it is.

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03-17-2013, 06:27 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by ZZZZZZZ View Post
Without a doubt the worse lineup in a decade.

Schroeder - Jensen
Pinizotto - Lapierre - Weise shouldn't even be in the NHL and the corps of D-men except the 2 mentioned are pretty useless on a regular basis.

1st round exit in 5 games..........doesn't matter who they play,unless our goalies stand on their heads.
Right, because this isn't an overreaction.

We've had stretches with lineups in the past decade where the team in front looked just as riddled with injuries and we DIDN'T have goaltending or defense.

The year before we got Luongo and missed the playoffs, we looked worse WITHOUT taking into consideration injuries than we do now.

The numbers indicate it too. A 97 point pace is not close to the worse we've done in the past 10 years. And we weren't missing anyone as integral as Kesler during any of those awful years either. The way the lineup looks now is basically identical to the way it's looked all year-- it's 7th in the west right now whereas we've had two teams miss the playoffs entirely in the last decade. We're also a point from the division lead.

For any other stretch in any other previous season we've had, any time a guy like Daniel Sedin or Kesler went down, people would go "all I expect is for the team to go PPG until he returns". What's changed?

It isn't looking good, but that doesn't give everyone license to use hyperbole with impunity.


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Old
03-17-2013, 06:31 PM
  #71
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On Feb 28, 2006 we iced a defence of:

Allen-Bieksa(rookie)
McCarthy-Butenschon
Mojzis-Brookbank

Yeah...
and it only gave up 1 goal

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Old
03-18-2013, 05:40 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
Vancouver has a habit of overpaying free agent players. Garrison is not worth 5 mil. If they didnt give him the cash another misinformed team with big pockets would have. Erhoff is twice the player Jason is and also better than Edler.
Booth another waste. Whats next? Being forced to pay Raymond 5 a year or trading for Gaborik who makes 7.5.
Ballard should be playing but im assuming is bought out if they cant trade him.
This team has more problems than a lack of chemistry or ineffective play by the defense. Last nights game was a disaster. Canucks need help with top six as well and now Booth is injured.
I cant blame the GM. Canucks cant expect great drafts when they never pick top 10.

Booth was not a free agent

Maybe Garrison isn't worth 4.6 over 6 but you are right, another team would have over-paid for him and then we have nobody because somebody over paid for Salo.

The Booth trade and Garrison signing are fine. The Hodgson and Grabner trades were mortal sins and the GM is 100% to blame.

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Old
03-18-2013, 05:48 PM
  #73
PG Canuck
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post

Booth was not a free agent

Maybe Garrison isn't worth 4.6 over 6 but you are right, another team would have over-paid for him and then we have nobody because somebody over paid for Salo.

The Booth trade and Garrison signing are fine. The Hodgson and Grabner trades were mortal sins and the GM is 100% to blame.
The Hodgson/Kassian trade hasn't even had enough time to announce it as a bad trade yet.

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03-18-2013, 05:49 PM
  #74
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and it only gave up 1 goal
This could be a good thread.

I remember that D

Anyone else remember some of the combos over the years ?

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Old
03-18-2013, 05:58 PM
  #75
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a little late to the party, but this is the roster from the last game of the dave nonis era:

bieksa
bourdon
burrows
cowan
edler
isbister
kesler
linden
mciver
mitchell
naslund
pettinger
ritchie
rypien
salo
sedin
shannon
sanford
luongo

the only players on that list that were playing better then than they are now were ... salo and mitchell. and btw, flames won that game 7-1.

so yeah, not the last decade, but if you're talking about the last 3 years i'd agree with you. today's lineup isn't going to sniff any president's trophies.

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