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Old
03-18-2013, 06:26 PM
  #76
Outside99*
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Its time for a mini rebuild - sell first then start buying.

I'd start by moving Raymond and Higgins for picks. That may sound crazy given that we're icing 5 AHLers up front tonight (3 in the top 9), but they're not core players and we need to accumulate assets and shed salary in order to add to the nucleus up front. I'd move Lapierre, Booth, Ballard and Alberts as well but they probably have zero trade value. If you can't trade Booth and Ballard, then they need to be bought out this summer during the amnesty period.

If you can trade Luongo for half decent picks and prospects, you do that too. If you can't move him at all by July 1, then waive him and if that doesn't work, then trade Schneider.

Leaves the team with a nucleus of 11 players and plenty of prospects and picks as well as 19MM cap space to re-sign Tanev, sign/trade for an elite forward or 2, a 3rd line center, a RHD for the 3rd pairing and complete the roster.

Basically you end up with a situation very similar to what GMMG inherited 5 years ago but with relatively more cap space, a better pool of picks/prospects, albeit an older core up front and a more experienced brass. If shrewdly managed, the team could go on another 5 year run. 5 out of 6 ain't bad.

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03-18-2013, 06:40 PM
  #77
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Hope the Flyers are getting back in the hunt but still have bad goaltending and trade Schneider+ for Couts.

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Old
03-18-2013, 07:05 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
Its time for a mini rebuild - sell first then start buying.

I'd start by moving Raymond and Higgins for picks. That may sound crazy given that we're icing 5 AHLers up front tonight (3 in the top 9), but they're not core players and we need to accumulate assets and shed salary in order to add to the nucleus up front. I'd move Lapierre, Booth, Ballard and Alberts as well but they probably have zero trade value. If you can't trade Booth and Ballard, then they need to be bought out this summer during the amnesty period.

If you can trade Luongo for half decent picks and prospects, you do that too. If you can't move him at all by July 1, then waive him and if that doesn't work, then trade Schneider.

Leaves the team with a nucleus of 11 players and plenty of prospects and picks as well as 19MM cap space to re-sign Tanev, sign/trade for an elite forward or 2, a 3rd line center, a RHD for the 3rd pairing and complete the roster.

Basically you end up with a situation very similar to what GMMG inherited 5 years ago but with relatively more cap space, a better pool of picks/prospects, albeit an older core up front and a more experienced brass. If shrewdly managed, the team could go on another 5 year run. 5 out of 6 ain't bad.
All that would do is throw a bunch of guys away for basically nothing and then pin the team's hopes on the idea that they could sign or trade for other players to fill in later which is a pretty risky proposition.

And it's probably fairly unrealistic. There's only 1 buyout available this summer so Booth and Ballard cannot both be bought out. And if Luongo could be moved for picks and prospects without money coming back it probably would've already happened.

If you want to do a mini rebuild you have to trade someone that actually has some value or else you're just spinning your wheels. All the team would get out of Raymond and Higgins is some 2nd or 3rd round picks. That paltry return probably isn't worth throwing away the season for.

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Old
03-18-2013, 07:18 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
Its time for a mini rebuild - sell first then start buying.

I'd start by moving Raymond and Higgins for picks. That may sound crazy given that we're icing 5 AHLers up front tonight (3 in the top 9), but they're not core players and we need to accumulate assets and shed salary in order to add to the nucleus up front. I'd move Lapierre, Booth, Ballard and Alberts as well but they probably have zero trade value. If you can't trade Booth and Ballard, then they need to be bought out this summer during the amnesty period.

If you can trade Luongo for half decent picks and prospects, you do that too. If you can't move him at all by July 1, then waive him and if that doesn't work, then trade Schneider.

Leaves the team with a nucleus of 11 players and plenty of prospects and picks as well as 19MM cap space to re-sign Tanev, sign/trade for an elite forward or 2, a 3rd line center, a RHD for the 3rd pairing and complete the roster.

Basically you end up with a situation very similar to what GMMG inherited 5 years ago but with relatively more cap space, a better pool of picks/prospects, albeit an older core up front and a more experienced brass. If shrewdly managed, the team could go on another 5 year run. 5 out of 6 ain't bad.
i agree that the team needs more young prospects and draft picks but disagree that you do that by trading raymond and hansen, 2 examples of players that the canucks have done a pretty good job of developing themselves...hansen is on a great contract and you only trade raymond if you don't think you have any chance of resigning him within next year's team salary structure

but yeah, get some dead weight off the team (ie lapierre and ballard/booth) by accumulating some picks, buyout booth or ballard in the summer, do more work on setting up a luongo trade, do a wholesale housecleaning of the coaching staff in the summer, and start next season with a healthy kesler and a motivated schneider

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03-18-2013, 07:20 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
All that would do is throw a bunch of guys away for basically nothing and then pin the team's hopes on the idea that they could sign or trade for other players to fill in later which is a pretty risky proposition.

And it's probably fairly unrealistic. There's only 1 buyout available this summer so Booth and Ballard cannot both be bought out. And if Luongo could be moved for picks and prospects without money coming back it probably would've already happened.

If you want to do a mini rebuild you have to trade someone that actually has some value or else you're just spinning your wheels. All the team would get out of Raymond and Higgins is some 2nd or 3rd round picks. That paltry return probably isn't worth throwing away the season for.
- It seems to have worked out pretty well in 2008...

- Wasn't aware of this.

- Luongo you only address the 1st part of 3 points I made.

- from what I've read, mid 2nd round picks will have value..in comparison, Kostitsyn garnered a 2nd and a 5th just last year, Raymond is better IMO.

- kicking the can down the road or mini rebuild, sharks or blackhawks? You choose.

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Old
03-18-2013, 07:20 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Hope the Flyers are getting back in the hunt but still have bad goaltending and trade Schneider+ for Couts.
Could be a possibility or for Ryan Johansen.

It looks like Canucks have unofficially named Luongo as the starter for this season.

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03-18-2013, 07:23 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
All that would do is throw a bunch of guys away for basically nothing and then pin the team's hopes on the idea that they could sign or trade for other players to fill in later which is a pretty risky proposition.

And it's probably fairly unrealistic. There's only 1 buyout available this summer so Booth and Ballard cannot both be bought out. And if Luongo could be moved for picks and prospects without money coming back it probably would've already happened.

If you want to do a mini rebuild you have to trade someone that actually has some value or else you're just spinning your wheels. All the team would get out of Raymond and Higgins is some 2nd or 3rd round picks. That paltry return probably isn't worth throwing away the season for.
Thats why this summer we got a chance to rebuild this team. Take a look at this summers roster during free agency with no changes.

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
???-Kesler-Booth
???-???-Hansen
???-???-Kassian

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-???
Ballard-Garrison

Lou
Schneids

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Old
03-18-2013, 07:24 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
i agree that the team needs more young prospects and draft picks but disagree that you do that by trading raymond and hansen, 2 examples of players that the canucks have done a pretty good job of developing themselves...hansen is on a great contract and you only trade raymond if you don't think you have any chance of resigning him within next year's team salary structure

but yeah, get some dead weight off the team (ie lapierre and ballard/booth) by accumulating some picks, buyout booth or ballard in the summer, do more work on setting up a luongo trade, do a wholesale housecleaning of the coaching staff in the summer, and start next season with a healthy kesler and a motivated schneider
Forgot about the coaching, agreed - im 50/50 on this being on him but if the guy is exhausted and out of ideas.... Very good point on Kesler as well.

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Old
03-18-2013, 07:30 PM
  #84
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My guess is MG is going to make another unexpected trade something no one predicts......

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Old
03-18-2013, 07:32 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Wheatley View Post
We already have way too many players "not doing much". Pass on Clowe.

Thornton would be awesome though.
Thornton doesn't do much. But, yes, he's awesome. Why? The intangibles that he brings, which are similar to those brought by Clowe.

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Old
03-18-2013, 07:39 PM
  #86
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My guess is MG is going to make another unexpected trade something no one predicts......
Last time we did that we got rid of our best prospects in the last decade.

Let's hope he does not go 2 nuts

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Old
03-18-2013, 08:03 PM
  #87
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The guys who want the Canucks to acquire impact players (top 6 winger, RH defenseman who presumably isn't replacement-level, etc.) what exactly do you think they're going to give up? The Canucks can't afford anything like this, even if they were to give up their 1st rounder or a goalie.

That's the other thing a goalie trade (whether Luongo or Schneider) is not going to bring a lot back in real assets, especially during the season. What contending team (who thinks a goalie is putting them over the top) is going to give up important roster players? Even in the offseason, there aren't a lot of teams in a position where upgrading their goaltending by a few percentage points is going to make a big difference.

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Old
03-18-2013, 08:09 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
Its time for a mini rebuild - sell first then start buying.

I'd start by moving Raymond and Higgins for picks. That may sound crazy given that we're icing 5 AHLers up front tonight (3 in the top 9), but they're not core players and we need to accumulate assets and shed salary in order to add to the nucleus up front. I'd move Lapierre, Booth, Ballard and Alberts as well but they probably have zero trade value. If you can't trade Booth and Ballard, then they need to be bought out this summer during the amnesty period.

If you can trade Luongo for half decent picks and prospects, you do that too. If you can't move him at all by July 1, then waive him and if that doesn't work, then trade Schneider.

Leaves the team with a nucleus of 11 players and plenty of prospects and picks as well as 19MM cap space to re-sign Tanev, sign/trade for an elite forward or 2, a 3rd line center, a RHD for the 3rd pairing and complete the roster.

Basically you end up with a situation very similar to what GMMG inherited 5 years ago but with relatively more cap space, a better pool of picks/prospects, albeit an older core up front and a more experienced brass. If shrewdly managed, the team could go on another 5 year run. 5 out of 6 ain't bad.
If you do this you basically end up with the team Mike Gillis took over 5 years ago. Which proves the point he's assembled a bunch crap and misfits.

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Old
03-18-2013, 08:34 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
If you do this you basically end up with the team Mike Gillis took over 5 years ago. Which proves the point he's assembled a bunch crap and misfits.
Its called renewal.

Not sure how you replace the Sedins, start with lots of picks and prospects I guess

Goaltending will be similar.

D is uncannily similar - top 5 is 1 year older than 5 years ago, taking up 31% of the cap vs 37? 5 years ago.

Picks and prospects no comparison.

Last but not least, 5 years of pretty good hockey.

All depends what GMMG does next..

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Old
03-18-2013, 08:38 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
Its called renewal.

Not sure how you replace the Sedins, start with lots of picks and prospects I guess

Goaltending will be similar.

D is uncannily similar - top 5 is 1 year older than 5 years ago, taking up 31% of the cap vs 37? 5 years ago.

Picks and prospects no comparison
Sedin
Sedin
Burrows
Kesler
Edler
Bieksa
Luongo/Schneider
Hansen

The core of the team would be made up of guys Gillis had when he took over. Only Hamhuis and Garrison would be new additions and then a few young guys like Tanev and Kassian. After 5 years that's pathetic addition by a GM that is praised for a reason I can't figure out. Explains why we're falling off though that's for sure. Can't wait to see how we replace the inherited core players when he can't even bring them the proper support players!

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Old
03-18-2013, 08:58 PM
  #91
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If you inherit a good team, you dont necessarily need to make a ton of moves, change is not always better, adding role players like Higgins and Lapierre, singing cap friendly contracts to our core, and adding FA like Hamhuis and Garrison at great cap hits cannot be overlooked. He hasnt needed to make any bold moves until recently (end of last season imo)

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Old
03-18-2013, 08:59 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Vajakki View Post
The Canucks don't really need Babchuk type of PP player though. Big shots on the point is not an issue, it's more the break outs, retrieval and general quickness of the unit. Babchuk is nothing but a slapshot bot and if the Canucks needed that they would just put Garrison there.
Yea I was just thinking because he is a RH shot he could help the PP. I would love to add Ballard, I think he would be good if go into a rebuild.

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:51 PM
  #93
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sell mode

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:56 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
If you inherit a good team, you dont necessarily need to make a ton of moves, change is not always better, adding role players like Higgins and Lapierre, singing cap friendly contracts to our core, and adding FA like Hamhuis and Garrison at great cap hits cannot be overlooked. He hasnt needed to make any bold moves until recently (end of last season imo)
Do we want to do bold though?

Most people here agree we should not make a deal with one of our best prospects unless there is an extreme circumstance.

Bold would be doing that, so is there any circumstances we trade Kassian or Jensen? We can't expect Gillis to perform a great deal that is going to make us an amazing team and expect we don't give up anything. Well, we can but well....Canucks fans

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:39 AM
  #95
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Do we want to do bold though?

Most people here agree we should not make a deal with one of our best prospects unless there is an extreme circumstance.

Bold would be doing that, so is there any circumstances we trade Kassian or Jensen? We can't expect Gillis to perform a great deal that is going to make us an amazing team and expect we don't give up anything. Well, we can but well....Canucks fans
Didn't he already try 'the' bold move when he moved Hodgson for Kassian? I don't say trade Kassian... It's up to he coaches to develop the big lug, and maybe fans will have to bite the bullet and show some patience... I agree with those who say get rid of the fringe players who at a deadline could get a pick or a young depth prospect. Their is no future in expecting a Higgins, a Raymond, Lapierre to be more than what they are - good depth players for a team that has front line soldiers. Sorry, but you can't count on Kesler and any 20-25 goal seasons you get from him is going to be his peak going forward. Unfortunately, dumping a guy like Grabner instead of trading a guy after his best year is what we do....

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03-19-2013, 12:42 AM
  #96
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Well, given how our desperate needs are there for everyone to see, we sure won't be getting any sweetheart deals from teams around the league which means one of two things:

-we overpay (the resulting player will under-perform no doubt or, better yet, we'll overpay for nothing more than a scrub)
-we won't make any moves because the price is too high

God, can this season be over already? Wake me up when something good happens.

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:52 AM
  #97
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I can already hear the deadline day Gillis interviews, ''the price was too high''

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:59 AM
  #98
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I can already hear the deadline day Gillis interviews, ''the price was too high''
We shouldn't be buyers anyways

We should be in the market to maybe sell a couple of lower tier guys (Booth, Ballard) or we should make a "hockey" type trade to shake up the roster

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Old
03-19-2013, 01:10 AM
  #99
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Remember the days when Nonis (who's looking at a playoff spot - What?!?) dealt draft picks like cheap apples for recycled riffraff? Now it's time for the worm to turn -- Higgins is just what's the Leafs' doctor would order for a long playoff run...

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03-19-2013, 07:21 AM
  #100
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A conservative strategy: Acquire a 3C and a RHD. Sell Ballard. Call it a day.

Good targets are Goc and O'Byrne (if its agreed that he re-signs to 1.5m per)

Big acquisitions are far-fetched. Any 2C or 2RW sniper would be pretty difficult to get considering the deadline costs. Not to mention the fact this team isn't showing itself to be a contender to warrant such an over the top addition. No, just repeat the Higgins/Lapierre deadline acquisitions and give this team a chance. That's it. Beyond that, the rest is on them.

As an aside, the people wanting a 2nd line C to insulate Kesler really need to get back to reality soon. It's not happening. The roles on this team, FA, and the cap will ensure such an acquisition won't happen. Dare to dream and all... But that's all it is, a dream.

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