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Dan Boyle and Martin Havlat Could Be Dealt?

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Old
03-18-2013, 05:11 PM
  #101
Suddenly Zyuzin
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If the Sharks really were desperate for cap room why wouldn't they trade Boyle for a package of prospects/picks to bolster one of the worst farm teams in the league, get 5-6 million in cap relief and replace his minutes with Demers/Burns/Irwin/Braun whoever isn't playing D currently than get just 1.6 mill in cap space, fill no other needs and replace his minutes with a meh defender who has nice stats this year?

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Old
03-18-2013, 05:14 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Let me guess, you haven't watched Havlat play at all this past two seasons right? Just looking at the numbers and the media cliches of euros being "uninspired". When healthy, Havlat has been great for the Sharks. He's was one of the best forwards last season, and he was probably the 2nd best forward in the post-season after Thornton.

Your second quote just further shows that you don't watch him play at all. One, he hasn't been 100%. Two, his linemates for the majority of his games have been terrible. When he's on the PP, he's stuck with players like Vlasic, Gomez, Clowe, and Handzus. On even strength, he's been playing with the likes of Handzus, Galiardi, and Burish. And don't even play the "he got demoted to the 3rd line because he sucks" card. He was put on the 3rd line because the coach wanted to spread out the scoring. When Havlat played with players like Marleau, Couture, and Thornton (which he should be doing on a consistent basis), he's been great.
I've watched plenty of Sharks games since trade and particularly this year Havlat looks nothing like the player he once was. He plays timid and peripheral, and has no interest in taking a hit to make a play. Maybe it is because he's been hurt (which is a regular occurrence for him), but when you are making $5M, you need to produce.

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03-18-2013, 05:16 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by 99 steps View Post
I've watched plenty of Sharks games since trade and particularly this year Havlat looks nothing like the player he once was. He plays timid and peripheral, and has no interest in taking a hit to make a play.
because he's playing injured... they've all but straight told us that.

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03-18-2013, 05:17 PM
  #104
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Havlat blaming injuries. irony.

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03-18-2013, 05:34 PM
  #105
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gaborik for boyle in some package deal makes perfect sense for both teams

boyle played for torts/richards in there 04 run

gabby could play with thorton and only has 1 more year after this one on his contract

rangers get there true top 4 d-man who can still play and would round out there d nicely, sharks get a legit 40 goal scorer

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03-18-2013, 05:41 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by OttawaSenators11 View Post
Yeah, Boyle coming home to Ottawa could make sense depending on how much SJ wants in return.

We have the capspace and prospects to get something done, but i don't see Murray giving up a great or perhaps a good package for him.

We're still kinda rebuilding our self's.
Something could be worked out for sure, even if you take you top blue chip forwards off the table like Zib or Silf. Assuming you won't consider top 6 roster forwards like Milan (who we would love back), Noesen and/or Petersson + 1st for Boyle or Boyle+ (depending on offer) would be a great place to start.

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03-18-2013, 05:41 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark11 View Post
gaborik for boyle in some package deal makes perfect sense for both teams

boyle played for torts/richards in there 04 run

gabby could play with thorton and only has 1 more year after this one on his contract

rangers get there true top 4 d-man who can still play and would round out there d nicely, sharks get a legit 40 goal scorer
-The Sharks don't want Gaborik
-The Sharks don't want Gaborik
-The Sharks don't want Gaborik

It does not make "perfect sense" for the Sharks. Gaborik offers to the Sharks are getting beyond old right now.

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03-18-2013, 05:41 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Suddenly Zyuzin View Post
If the Sharks really were desperate for cap room why wouldn't they trade Boyle for a package of prospects/picks to bolster one of the worst farm teams in the league, get 5-6 million in cap relief and replace his minutes with Demers/Burns/Irwin/Braun whoever isn't playing D currently than get just 1.6 mill in cap space, fill no other needs and replace his minutes with a meh defender who has nice stats this year?
Because they still have Thorton, Marleau and possibly even Pavelski to try and convince that this team is a team they should want to stay with after next season and is committed to winning in the next few years.

If this team trades Boyle for strictly a package of futures that are years away from making any kind of impact why would those players if they really want to win a championship stay beyond next year?

1.66 million in cap space is nothing to sneeze at either. 1.66 million can buy quite the difference in players.

Anyways I'll drop the Martin for Boyle talk.

If the Sharks are serious about trading Boyle I do think you'd end up seeing a Dman with a decent size salary coming back like a Martin, Liles, Meszaros to help fill the minutes lost by trading Boyle and for the cap to work for the team trading for him.

The Sharks will need that D to because once you remove Boyle that isn't nearly as good because every player will be slotted one spot higher then they've been and their weaknesses will start getting exposed.

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03-18-2013, 05:42 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by mark11 View Post
gaborik for boyle in some package deal makes perfect sense for both teams

boyle played for torts/richards in there 04 run

gabby could play with thorton and only has 1 more year after this one on his contract

rangers get there true top 4 d-man who can still play and would round out there d nicely, sharks get a legit 40 goal scorer
No... it doesn't...

Too injury prone, too expensive, Sharks lose the best defensemen on the team and get at best the 3rd best forward on the team (especially considering injury time missed).

We do not want Gaborik, at all. If Doug Wilson does something like that he is clearly completely out to lunch and should be fired.

If the Sharks trade Boyle they are clearly signaling they are not planning to compete this season. Period. End of story.


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03-18-2013, 05:46 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Because they still have Thorton, Marleau and possibly even Pavelski to try and convince that this team is a team they should want to stay with after next season and is committed to winning in the next few years.

If this team trades Boyle for strictly a package of futures that are years away from making any kind of impact why would those players if they really want to win a championship stay beyond next year?

1.66 million in cap space is nothing to sneeze at either. 1.66 million can buy quite the difference in players.

Anyways I'll drop the Martin for Boyle talk.

If the Sharks are serious about trading Boyle I do think you'd end up seeing a Dman with a decent size salary coming back like a Martin, Liles, Meszaros to help fill the minutes lost by trading Boyle and for the cap to work for the team trading for him.

The Sharks will need that D to because once you remove Boyle that isn't nearly as good because every player will be slotted one spot higher then they've been and their weaknesses will start getting exposed.
You really have no idea about the Sharks D-corp. We have a top-4 defensemen sitting on the bench (god knows why... he's played really well and played big top-4 minutes before) and a top d-man playing forward ffs.

Vlasic - Burns
Stuart - Demers
Irwin - Braun
Petrecki, Acolotse, Tennyson, etc

All 4 of those top-4 dmen are solid top-4 dmen and Irwin has been playing top pairing minutes most of the year and doing VERY well. If we want another d-man we'll bring Ian White back, he wanted to stay here the first time anyway.

There are a million better choices than Paul Martin.

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03-18-2013, 05:46 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by mark11 View Post
gaborik for boyle in some package deal makes perfect sense for both teams

boyle played for torts/richards in there 04 run

gabby could play with thorton and only has 1 more year after this one on his contract

rangers get there true top 4 d-man who can still play and would round out there d nicely, sharks get a legit 40 goal scorer
This is somewhat fair value that fills immediate needs. I would ask for a pick too if I was accepting this, which I would not. If we are to trade Boyle, it would be to add depth for our future. I would be much more interested in one of your younger top 9 players (and would willingly add and keep up to 2 million of Boyle's cap to achieve such). JT Miller, Stepan, Hagelin would be what I would target. Adding Clowe in there if that helped get one of those players back would even be an option.

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03-18-2013, 05:50 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Because they still have Thorton, Marleau and possibly even Pavelski to try and convince that this team is a team they should want to stay with after next season and is committed to winning in the next few years.

If this team trades Boyle for strictly a package of futures that are years away from making any kind of impact why would those players if they really want to win a championship stay beyond next year?

1.66 million in cap space is nothing to sneeze at either. 1.66 million can buy quite the difference in players.

Anyways I'll drop the Martin for Boyle talk.

If the Sharks are serious about trading Boyle I do think you'd end up seeing a Dman with a decent size salary coming back like a Martin, Liles, Meszaros to help fill the minutes lost by trading Boyle and for the cap to work for the team trading for him.

The Sharks will need that D to because once you remove Boyle that isn't nearly as good because every player will be slotted one spot higher then they've been and their weaknesses will start getting exposed.
First of all, Sharks winning a championship with this core is laughable now. Secondly, if they really were going for that, why would they trade Boyle? For a much worse player and get only $1.6 million of space? That will convince those guys that this is where they want to be? Cause the Sharks can now sign another Adam Burish?

I really am not understanding what you think the motivation for the Sharks here would be? If they are trading Boyle, they are essentially starting their rebuild. You don't rebuild with Paul Martin. And I don't get why you keep ignoring the fact that on any given night, the Sharks have a couple of defensemen who really aren't much worse than Paul freaking Martin not playing. Seriously, do not worry about the Sharks replacing Boyle's minutes. Specially not with Martin or Liles or Mesjaros. They already got guys who can do that.

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03-18-2013, 06:17 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Suddenly Zyuzin View Post
First of all, Sharks winning a championship with this core is laughable now. Secondly, if they really were going for that, why would they trade Boyle? For a much worse player and get only $1.6 million of space? That will convince those guys that this is where they want to be? Cause the Sharks can now sign another Adam Burish?

I really am not understanding what you think the motivation for the Sharks here would be? If they are trading Boyle, they are essentially starting their rebuild. You don't rebuild with Paul Martin. And I don't get why you keep ignoring the fact that on any given night, the Sharks have a couple of defensemen who really aren't much worse than Paul freaking Martin not playing. Seriously, do not worry about the Sharks replacing Boyle's minutes. Specially not with Martin or Liles or Mesjaros. They already got guys who can do that.
Thank you. Well said!

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03-18-2013, 06:24 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Because they still have Thorton, Marleau and possibly even Pavelski to try and convince that this team is a team they should want to stay with after next season and is committed to winning in the next few years.
And you think trading away Boyle will send that message?

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03-18-2013, 06:40 PM
  #115
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Something could be worked out for sure, even if you take you top blue chip forwards off the table like Zib or Silf. Assuming you won't consider top 6 roster forwards like Milan (who we would love back), Noesen and/or Petersson + 1st for Boyle or Boyle+ (depending on offer) would be a great place to start.
I'd hope a deal sending Boyle to Ottawa would center around Silfverberg/Zibanejad.

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03-18-2013, 06:44 PM
  #116
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And you think trading away Boyle will send that message?
Depends what they do with the cap space gained by trading him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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03-18-2013, 06:45 PM
  #117
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Depends what they do with the cap space gained by trading him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, those $1.67M cap savings you get from trading Boyle for Martin will really make a difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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03-18-2013, 06:54 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Because they still have Thorton, Marleau and possibly even Pavelski to try and convince that this team is a team they should want to stay with after next season and is committed to winning in the next few years.

If this team trades Boyle for strictly a package of futures that are years away from making any kind of impact why would those players if they really want to win a championship stay beyond next year?

1.66 million in cap space is nothing to sneeze at either. 1.66 million can buy quite the difference in players.

Anyways I'll drop the Martin for Boyle talk.

If the Sharks are serious about trading Boyle I do think you'd end up seeing a Dman with a decent size salary coming back like a Martin, Liles, Meszaros to help fill the minutes lost by trading Boyle and for the cap to work for the team trading for him.

The Sharks will need that D to because once you remove Boyle that isn't nearly as good because every player will be slotted one spot higher then they've been and their weaknesses will start getting exposed.
You pretend to know more about the Sharks than all of their fans and still haven't spelled Thornton correctly as far as I can see.

The Sharks are still ok without Boyle. Demers is a Boyle-lite type of player. They don't need Martin, they need young forwards with top 6 potential. They won't trade Boyle unless rebuilding is occurring. Before trading Boyle to clear up cap space they'd trade Havlat, Murray, Clowe, Handzus, and Burish. If they traded Boyle to clear up cap space it would be to get younger and save money. 1.66 is decent, but they could do FAR better, and a 32 year old isn't the type of younger they are looking for.

If you want to tell those of us that have watched every Sharks game what we should do again I'm sure it'll make more sense the 10th time...

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03-18-2013, 06:59 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Yeah, those $1.67M cap savings you get from trading Boyle for Martin will really make a difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is the difference between being able to have someone like Adam Burish on your team or a good tweener type.

Anyways I said I was dropping the Martin + idea so what is your trade idea?

Keeping in mind that the Sharks that only contenders would be bidding for Boyle at the deadline and the Sharks would need to take salary back in any deal what do you propose for a deal?

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03-18-2013, 07:13 PM
  #120
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That is the difference between being able to have someone like Adam Burish on your team or a good tweener type.

Anyways I said I was dropping the Martin + idea so what is your trade idea?

Keeping in mind that the Sharks that only contenders would be bidding for Boyle at the deadline and the Sharks would need to take salary back in any deal what do you propose for a deal?
Our trade idea is not trading Boyle for an expensive defenseman. Many of us have already shown that our D is still good without Boyle, but you're conveniently picking and choosing which posts to reply to.
Seriously, you don't know anything about the Sharks, I don't know why you're trying so hard to tell us what our team needs.

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03-18-2013, 07:16 PM
  #121
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I would want no part of Havlat at that cap hit, not unless the Sharks "ate" some of his salary.

And why the hell would the Pens trade Paul Martin? Shero asked him to waive his NMC in the summer and he said no, that he wanted to prove himself to the team instead. He's done that in spades, he's been a top 2 pairing guy all season long, the guy we thought Shero was signing showed up this year, even better than we thought he would be. No way in hell does Ray Shero move him now for Boyle and there is absolutely no way Paul Martin waives his NMC to go to San Jose anyway so that's a hell no non starter.

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03-18-2013, 07:23 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Our trade idea is not trading Boyle for an expensive defenseman. Many of us have already shown that our D is still good without Boyle, but you're conveniently picking and choosing which posts to reply to.
Seriously, you don't know anything about the Sharks, I don't know why you're trying so hard to tell us what our team needs.
As special as each of you Sharks fans believe you are I don't have time to reply to each of you individually.

I'm still waiting on that trade idea from you that will work for the acquiring team. It was a direct question. Please provide a direct answer this time.

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03-18-2013, 07:28 PM
  #123
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I'm still waiting on that trade idea from you that will work for the acquiring team.
What percentage of trade proposals on these boards are agreed upon by both teams? You're really expecting us to whip one up at will?

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03-18-2013, 07:31 PM
  #124
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As special as each of you Sharks fans believe you are I don't have time to reply to each of you individually.
Well, you keep mentioning our "weak D-core", even after there were multiple posts telling you that you're wrong and it's still fine without Boyle.
Also, that doesn't disprove the fact that you're picking and choosing what to respond to to avoid admitting you're wrong.

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I'm still waiting on that trade idea from you that will work for the acquiring team. It was a direct question. Please provide a direct answer this time.
How are we supposed to know? We don't know what teams are interested in Boyle, what teams Boyle is interested in, and who's available. What I do know is there is no way we're trading him for another expensive defenseman. We're looking for picks/prospects/young forwards. If those aren't available, we'll just keep Boyle since, as others have said, cap-space isn't as big of an issue as you're making it out to be.

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03-18-2013, 07:43 PM
  #125
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What percentage of trade proposals on these boards are agreed upon by both teams? You're really expecting us to whip one up at will?
Life is all about taking chances.

I'm confident you'll still be able to sleep at night if you're wrong.

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