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2013 NHL Trade Deadline Thread (CBJ deadline discussion here)

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Old
03-18-2013, 05:50 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
Personally, I trade Tytuin, Nikitin, Brass, and Umby. Put Brass and Nikitin in a Package for a good forward, use Umby to grab a second+, and send Tyutin out for a 1st+ a good prospect.
I wouldn't have any problem with any or all of this if it could be done. I'm guessing with Umby and/or Tyutin we would have to take some salary back though.

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03-18-2013, 06:45 PM
  #277
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In my opinion trading Tyutin would be stupid. Trading Umberger sounds like the greatest idea in the world however.

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03-18-2013, 06:49 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
In my opinion trading Tyutin would be stupid. Trading Umberger sounds like the greatest idea in the world however.
Neither will be here if the Jackets ever become a threat to win anything.

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03-18-2013, 06:56 PM
  #279
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At this point I think every deal is going to be based on price.

We have a few pieces that are "superfluous" pieces which we can sell without much in terms of repercussions. (Umberger is a solid secondary/tertiary scorer and our roster is loaded with those, Brass can become a decent #2 center but has already been passed by Johansen, Anisimov and Dubinsky, and Nikitin is a PMD that has been outplayed IMO by Moore, Erixon, and Golo.) The issue arises when we start looking at players with real "value".

Aucoin: Probably the worst D-man we have Aucoin is none the less partially responsible for the development of some of the kids, and has, by all reports been a major positive voice in the room.

Prospal: The veteran leader we keep him if the return is a third round pick. The issue comes when we get offered a 1st. For the love of all that is good people are talking about a 1st+ for Ribeiro and the same for Jagr. If it comes to that we make a Tkachuk deal with him and bring him back next year (either as a player or as part of the organization).

JJ: Minute munching D who continues to develop into a true #1. Would net the biggest return without question, however advanced stats guys say this stretch of play is not as good as our eyes tell us and that we should unload him ASAP.

Wiz: Our PP with him we look competent, without, well lets not talk about that disaster. He brings a unique dimension to the PP, however he's overpaid and injury prone.

Tyutin: Probably our best all around D-man would bring a solid return and he isn't getting any younger. We would be a worse defense without him, but the drop from him to Erixon/Moore isn't as great IMO as many believe. Essentially I see him as JayBo without the terrible contract (seriously look at the stats over the last few years) and the return for JayBo is rumored to be ridiculous (i.e. a first and an A-levle prospect)

Complicating this more is the fact that there is an "urgency" with the rebuild given that the 2013 draft looks to be one of the best in terms of talent since 2008 and that the next few drafts aren't nearly as deep (Though the guys at the top appear to some truly excellent prospects).

Personally, I trade Tytuin, Nikitin, Brass, and Umby. Put Brass and Nikitin in a Package for a good forward, use Umby to grab a second+, and send Tyutin out for a 1st+ a good prospect.
Good post and I agree with most of what you say. I just think it is going to be tough to trade guys with high salaries with the cap going down next year.


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Old
03-18-2013, 07:25 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Because, save for "conventional wisdom," we have no real sene of what JK/JD have planned, I am not ruling out the possibility of trading "for" someone. My assumption is this someone would not be a rental, and would "fit" with whatever plan the FO has moving forward. This would not have anything specifically to do with a "playoff push" for this season, IMO.

Such players could include (throwing **** at a wall here, not suggesting that any of these players for sure would "fit"): Stastny, Kennedy, Stewart, Versteeg, Pavelski, Stafford, Pominville, Camalleri, Nielsen, Talbot, Eller. I realize there's a variety of "types" of players there. Again, I am not hypothesizing that any of these will be targets, or are even available (and thus will not "defend" any of them individually). Just a thought is all.
I'm betting the Sabres will be sellers.... Regier will probably do something stupid in an attempt to save his skin.... If so the pickings there could be worth the effort..

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03-18-2013, 07:26 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Good pot and I agree with most of what you say. I just think it is going to be tough to trade guys with high salaries with the cap going down next year.
Got more of that good stuff???

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03-18-2013, 07:35 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Good pot and I agree with most of what you say. I just think it is going to be tough to trade guys with high salaries with the cap going down next year.
Well there are some issues with the cap, but remember alot of these guys aren't on "bad" contracts. Tyutin is paid pretty much what he's worth, Brass is a bit overpaid but only has a year left on his deal, Nikitin only has two years left. I understand your concern about Umby or Wiz's contract, but remember two things. 1. We can eat a portion of the cap hit (and since we likely won't be a cap team for a while its a no harm no fowl thing and 2. alot of teams have guys that they will be buying out after the year.

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03-18-2013, 07:55 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
At this point I think every deal is going to be based on price.

We have a few pieces that are "superfluous" pieces which we can sell without much in terms of repercussions. (Umberger is a solid secondary/tertiary scorer and our roster is loaded with those, Brass can become a decent #2 center but has already been passed by Johansen, Anisimov and Dubinsky, and Nikitin is a PMD that has been outplayed IMO by Moore, Erixon, and Golo.) The issue arises when we start looking at players with real "value".

Aucoin: Probably the worst D-man we have Aucoin is none the less partially responsible for the development of some of the kids, and has, by all reports been a major positive voice in the room.

Prospal: The veteran leader we keep him if the return is a third round pick. The issue comes when we get offered a 1st. For the love of all that is good people are talking about a 1st+ for Ribeiro and the same for Jagr. If it comes to that we make a Tkachuk deal with him and bring him back next year (either as a player or as part of the organization).

JJ: Minute munching D who continues to develop into a true #1. Would net the biggest return without question, however advanced stats guys say this stretch of play is not as good as our eyes tell us and that we should unload him ASAP.

Wiz: Our PP with him we look competent, without, well lets not talk about that disaster. He brings a unique dimension to the PP, however he's overpaid and injury prone.

Tyutin: Probably our best all around D-man would bring a solid return and he isn't getting any younger. We would be a worse defense without him, but the drop from him to Erixon/Moore isn't as great IMO as many believe. Essentially I see him as JayBo without the terrible contract (seriously look at the stats over the last few years) and the return for JayBo is rumored to be ridiculous (i.e. a first and an A-levle prospect)

Complicating this more is the fact that there is an "urgency" with the rebuild given that the 2013 draft looks to be one of the best in terms of talent since 2008 and that the next few drafts aren't nearly as deep (Though the guys at the top appear to some truly excellent prospects).

Personally, I trade Tytuin, Nikitin, Brass, and Umby. Put Brass and Nikitin in a Package for a good forward, use Umby to grab a second+, and send Tyutin out for a 1st+ a good prospect.
I hope the deals aren't all about price. You're making good points here but my problem with this kind of thinking is it boils everything down to money/cap hits/contract years etc... at the expense of other types of value. It's a little bit video-gamey or board-roomy. Not trying to oversimplify, but if you base everything on the cold, hard facts and wind up with a great team on paper, you run the risk of having an underperforming team like the Rangers (currently).

Which is to say, in my opinion, with the new Russians on this team, especially Bobs, I feel Tyutin has greater value than numbers may reveal. I don't think Wiz and JJ as the 2 to keep from that three would necessarily be room-changing in a bad way, since they both seem like leaders and strong talents. But I think Tyutin makes his presence felt as a veteran of the league, a veteran of the team, a leader for the Russians and the D, and a good player. Early in this season, when the team needed some direction, he stepped up his offense; last year, I don't think it's crazy to suggest Nikitin can thank Toots for his production; and who knows how the steady play of young d-men and of Bob don't owe a lot to Tyutulage? (sorry for that ) Someone mentioned how Tyutin made a point of getting the puck after the horn sounded on Bobrovsky's first career shutout. That kind of thing won't show up on payroll sheets but may just make an impact with the players.

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03-18-2013, 08:05 PM
  #284
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I've gone back and forth on moving Tyutin, but at this point the payment would have to be high (1st++, or top line forward), and we would have to be out of playoff contention, for me to like a deal. He does too many things well, and I don't want to give his role to one of our younger guys until they prove at length that they're ready. This is a guess at next year's defence if we move just Nikitin:

JJ Tyutelage
Wiz
Golo/Prout/Murray/Moore/Tim

Maybe 2 or 3 of that young group will be ready for top four roles, but we don't need to chance it.

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03-18-2013, 08:27 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by ernmorris View Post
Apologies if this has been asked/answered already...I simply haven't had time to catch up on the entire thread.

One alternative to trading for some offensive talent and mortgaging our future (which we all know JD and JK won't be doing) is to sign a college player. Are there any high end offensive collegiate free agents available right now? I know the price for trading for high end offensive talent at the deadline will be too high so this could be an alternative that would allow us to retain our current lineup, not trade any players (that were not already looking to move) and draft picks. Seems like a suitable option to me.

Are there any college free agents with offensive ability that we would be interested in?

If you are a free agent with any skill at all I would actually think that the CBJ could be on your list. A lot of upside on this team with the front office we have in place now as well as having a young and hungry hockey team. In the past free agents might not have given us a sniff (Tyler Bozak comes to mind), but I think the tide has turned.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/

You were asking about this yesterday, and this information is from Bob MacKenzie:

@TSNBobMcKenzie: No surprise, but Andrej Sustr, 6-foot-8 Univ of Nebraska-Omaha junior dman (UFA), has officially decided to leave school/field NHL offers.

@TSNBobMcKenzie: UNO's college season ended on the weekend. Sustr will weigh his options, and he has many, this week. No rush or timetable on a decision.

Big potential with Sustr, big Czech defenseman who could develop into a top-4 guy in the NHL. As is usual with players this big, skating will be an immediate concern, and he should see a big learning curve ... maybe 2-3 years out from a significant impact either way.

@TSNBobMcKenzie: College UFA G Jared Coreau of Northern Michigan in DET tomorrow. Tentative agreement in place with Wings tho actual signing date TBD.

@TSNBobMcKenzie: Bottom line, though, is Coreau will be Red Wing property.

This isn't a player I'm terribly familiar with unfortunately. There are still a couple of guys out there, but as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I doubt we're major players.

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03-18-2013, 08:27 PM
  #286
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Assuming we can't move Umberger at the deadline, does JK use an amnesty buyout on him in the off-season? Does he want rid of them that badly?

Brass only has 1 more year on his contract and I could see a team picking him up. Brass just hasn't developed into the player that I think we all expected him to. Aside from that we have Johan, Dubie, Artie, DMac and eventually Jenner down the middle. Plenty of depth at C and Brass is clearly the odd man out there.

I could see us packaging a young defensemen in a deal as well. Think about it, we have Fedor, JJ, Wiz, Moore, Aucoin, Erixon, Nikitan, Prout, Golo, Savard and Holden. Next year, you can subtract Aucoin (if not sooner) and add Murray. We'll also be be adding Seth Jones ( I'm optimistic that were going to win the lotto for once). That's 11 or 12 guys on the blue line that can play here. JK and JD need to decide who of that group are the keepers and who's expendable and whoever is on the expendable list could get packaged in a deal.

I see Mason getting move in the off-season as well. I don't think the value will be there at the deadline, but I can definitely see him getting moved. I think Mase can still be a good goalie in this league, just not here. Too much negative history.

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03-18-2013, 08:32 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by davidbklyn View Post
...Which is to say, in my opinion, with the new Russians on this team, especially Bobs, I feel Tyutin has greater value than numbers may reveal...But I think Tyutin makes his presence felt as a veteran of the league, a veteran of the team, a leader for the Russians and the D, and a good player...
I believe the bolded portion has not been appreciated properly. There is great value in having a stable family-oriented example leading the Russian contingent. It shouldn't hurt, either, that Tyuts is reported to be very happy in Columbus. Just one factor to be considered when assigning value to the team.

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03-18-2013, 08:33 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/

You were asking about this yesterday, and this information is from Bob MacKenzie:

@TSNBobMcKenzie: No surprise, but Andrej Sustr, 6-foot-8 Univ of Nebraska-Omaha junior dman (UFA), has officially decided to leave school/field NHL offers.

@TSNBobMcKenzie: UNO's college season ended on the weekend. Sustr will weigh his options, and he has many, this week. No rush or timetable on a decision.

Big potential with Sustr, big Czech defenseman who could develop into a top-4 guy in the NHL. As is usual with players this big, skating will be an immediate concern, and he should see a big learning curve ... maybe 2-3 years out from a significant impact either way.

@TSNBobMcKenzie: College UFA G Jared Coreau of Northern Michigan in DET tomorrow. Tentative agreement in place with Wings tho actual signing date TBD.

@TSNBobMcKenzie: Bottom line, though, is Coreau will be Red Wing property.

This isn't a player I'm terribly familiar with unfortunately. There are still a couple of guys out there, but as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I doubt we're major players.

Thanks SL. Someone else mentioned yesterday that there wasn't much in the way of offensive talent coming from the college ranks this season, which is too bad since we could use some scoring and I believe we actually would have some interest for once.

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03-18-2013, 08:39 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
I believe the bolded portion has not been appreciated properly. There is great value in having a stable family-oriented example leading the Russian contingent. It shouldn't hurt, either, that Tyuts is reported to be very happy in Columbus. Just one factor to be considered when assigning value to the team.
True Pete, I guess I'm the outlyer fan.... To be honest my concern with players is what they do on the ice more than how they like Columbus for their kids or how their comardes feel about each other.... To be frank, I want our players to put winning as a Columbus Blue Jacket above everything else save being in the delivery room when the wife has that baby or a loved one passes away....

It's a hardcore world Pete....

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03-18-2013, 08:51 PM
  #290
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True Pete, I guess I'm the outlyer fan.... To be honest my concern with players is what they do on the ice more than how they like Columbus for their kids or how their comardes feel about each other.... To be frank, I want our players to put winning as a Columbus Blue Jacket above everything else save being in the delivery room when the wife has that baby or a loved one passes away....

It's a hardcore world Pete....
You're a young Russian hockey player who wants to light up the NHL and you come to Columbus OH, a city perhaps you've never heard of. But whaddya know, there's an impressive Russian NHL veteran who can not only help you out with your game but show you that Columbus is proper. OK that's a bit of empathy overkill, but that's the value Tyutin can have.

I haven't lived in Columbus for over ten years so maybe y'all know places I don't, but I wouldn't know where to tell a kid to go for down-home Russian cooking!

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03-18-2013, 08:53 PM
  #291
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Well there are some issues with the cap, but remember alot of these guys aren't on "bad" contracts. Tyutin is paid pretty much what he's worth, Brass is a bit overpaid but only has a year left on his deal, Nikitin only has two years left. I understand your concern about Umby or Wiz's contract, but remember two things. 1. We can eat a portion of the cap hit (and since we likely won't be a cap team for a while its a no harm no fowl thing and 2. alot of teams have guys that they will be buying out after the year.
I agree. I am just saying it might be harder this year compared to before.

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03-18-2013, 08:57 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
True Pete, I guess I'm the outlyer fan.... To be honest my concern with players is what they do on the ice more than how they like Columbus for their kids or how their comardes feel about each other.... To be frank, I want our players to put winning as a Columbus Blue Jacket above everything else save being in the delivery room when the wife has that baby or a loved one passes away....

It's a hardcore world Pete....
Right, Bob, like I need you to tell me anything about the real world. The point is, Tyutin is a positive leader among a group the Jackets have a perceived problem with - Russians. In addition, some of his preceeding countrymen have had a, shall we say, less than family oriented lifestyle while in Columbus. Nowhere did I imply that this was important enough to make him a Jacket for life, just that, like Vinny, all his contributions to the team may not be limited to the ice. How much JD and JK value this is unknown, I offered it up as, in my opinion, a factor that might be considered. I note your opinion and assign it what value I think it deserves.

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03-18-2013, 08:59 PM
  #293
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Assuming we can't move Umberger at the deadline, does JK use an amnesty buyout on him in the off-season? Does he want rid of them that badly?
No. Amnesty buyouts are there to help cap teams squeeze under the cap. They aren't for us. Teams still have to pay the players (I think 2/3 of the $). You only would buy out Umby if you thought you could replace him with the remaining third, and I don't think we could- in addition to his scoring he brings good PK work and physical presence.

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03-18-2013, 09:10 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Right, Bob, like I need you to tell me anything about the real world. The point is, Tyutin is a positive leader among a group the Jackets have a perceived problem with - Russians. In addition, some of his preceeding countrymen have had a, shall we say, less than family oriented lifestyle while in Columbus. Nowhere did I imply that this was important enough to make him a Jacket for life, just that, like Vinny, all his contributions to the team may not be limited to the ice. How much JD and JK value this is unknown, I offered it up as, in my opinion, a factor that might be considered. I note your opinion and assign it what value I think it deserves.
We can compare lifetime resumes later Pete, it's not my first rodeo either.... Just giving you a hint of my personal priorities for NHL hockey players... To be honest, I think Tyutin and Niki's days in Columbus are limited... I’m not impressed with either this season, we will see.

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03-18-2013, 09:12 PM
  #295
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No. Amnesty buyouts are there to help cap teams squeeze under the cap. They aren't for us. Teams still have to pay the players (I think 2/3 of the $). You only would buy out Umby if you thought you could replace him with the remaining third, and I don't think we could- in addition to his scoring he brings good PK work and physical presence.
I'm not disagreeing with you, although of players on this team I've thought Umbooger was the juiciest amnesty guy; still, isn't that 2/3 off the cap hit, anyway? I thought if you amnestied a guy, regardless of what is still owed him in actual dollars, the whole contract is off the books. No?

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03-18-2013, 09:29 PM
  #296
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I wouldn't know where to tell a kid to go for down-home Russian cooking!
That's simple....The R-Bar....

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03-18-2013, 09:57 PM
  #297
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Corey Perry signing an 8-year extension with the Ducks as we speak. Take anything involving him off the table.

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03-18-2013, 10:04 PM
  #298
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The CBJ making the playoffs has to have a better % of happening than Corey Perry willingly signing a contract with the CBJ.

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03-18-2013, 10:07 PM
  #299
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With Perry off the table, does that increase the trade value in Iginla,Alfredsson, and heck Prospal?

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03-18-2013, 10:44 PM
  #300
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With Perry off the table, does that increase the trade value in Iginla,Alfredsson, and heck Prospal?
Absolutely. Though, I doubt Corey Perry would have been on the table anyhow ... I think the Ducks were making this deal all along, and the rest was just speculation.

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