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Old
03-18-2013, 10:27 PM
  #351
BrindamoursNose
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Trading Coburn is a silly idea. We need him no matter what.

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Old
03-18-2013, 10:28 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Gormley definitely has more than top 4 potential IMO. I think he can be a top pairng guy in his prime.

And you're not getting an established top pairing defenseman for couturier. You're trading potential for potential.
I'm not talking about straight up. I would rather package Couturier for a proven guy who's at least played a game in the NHL.

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Old
03-18-2013, 10:29 PM
  #353
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I think many people would be surprised at what Coburn could return in a trade. Not only is he a top 4 defenseman who plays 20+ mins a night, he also is signed for 3 more years at a reasonable 4.5 mill per year. He would demand a lot. I actually don't want to trade him though, just joining in the "if we did move him" talk.

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Old
03-18-2013, 10:36 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
$4.5 million in cap space is a good place to start. As well, Coburn has digressed drastically this year. It's not funny how terrible he's become. And before anyone starts making excuses for him, he's been in the league now for seven years. If he can't figure out what it takes to be successful, no coach is ever going to get through to him. Million dollar talent, penny brain. Such a shame and a waste. Could be an all world defenseman if he decided to play with a sense of urgency all the time.
What in the world is this? He's played a terrible half season here, and that means you sell him for anything? You don't just ditch players like that. If you trade him for a prospect and a pick, you realize there won't be any NHL impact for years, right?

This team has a solid core, and Coburn can contribute to it if we just build a proper foundation on the blueline. Trading Coburn for prospects is just boneheaded. If you want to package him for an upgrade on D, then great, but selling him for futures does absolutely nothing for this team. He's a solid piece, and any player we take in the mid to late first round (assuming we get a 1st for him) would be a gamble to even develop into the player that Coburn is.

Just an all around terrible idea to trade Coburn if we're not getting a top pairing guy in return. Just awful.

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Old
03-18-2013, 10:37 PM
  #355
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Perry is close to resigning in Anaheim, cross him off the list.

Bobby Ryan Rumors will run aplenty now to the Flyers.

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03-18-2013, 10:39 PM
  #356
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What in the world is this? He's played a terrible half season here, and that means you sell him for anything? You don't just ditch players like that. If you trade him for a prospect and a pick, you realize there won't be any NHL impact for years, right?

This team has a solid core, and Coburn can contribute to it if we just build a proper foundation on the blueline. Trading Coburn for prospects is just boneheaded. If you want to package him for an upgrade on D, then great, but selling him for futures does absolutely nothing for this team. He's a solid piece, and any player we take in the mid to late first round (assuming we get a 1st for him) would be a gamble to even develop into the player that Coburn is.

Just an all around terrible idea to trade Coburn if we're not getting a top pairing guy in return. Just awful.
Especially if you can get a legit #1 to take more pressure off of him.

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Old
03-18-2013, 10:39 PM
  #357
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Perry is close to resigning in Anaheim, cross him off the list.
Might mean we can say hello to bobby Ryan in a couple years though!

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Old
03-18-2013, 10:59 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
What in the world is this? He's played a terrible half season here, and that means you sell him for anything? You don't just ditch players like that. If you trade him for a prospect and a pick, you realize there won't be any NHL impact for years, right?

This team has a solid core, and Coburn can contribute to it if we just build a proper foundation on the blueline. Trading Coburn for prospects is just boneheaded. If you want to package him for an upgrade on D, then great, but selling him for futures does absolutely nothing for this team. He's a solid piece, and any player we take in the mid to late first round (assuming we get a 1st for him) would be a gamble to even develop into the player that Coburn is.

Just an all around terrible idea to trade Coburn if we're not getting a top pairing guy in return. Just awful.
Half a season?!?!?!?!? Have you watched Coburn the past seven years? If so, you would know he is the MOST inconsistent defenseman on this roster. With Coburn you can expect the following:

1) He starts the season off poorly
2) He begins to get his game together and starts playing collectively better
3) Just when you think Coburn is about to turn the corner and play consistently, he ends up crapping the bed
4) He then collects himself and begins to start playing better after getting a demotion in ice time
5) By the time the last fifth of the season comes around, Coburn really begins to put it all together
6) Come playoff time, Coburn is firing on all cylinders and plays like an all wold defenseman

What we're seeing this year is what Coburn is really all about. They needed him to be ready from the get go and he's failed everyone on the team. I'm sorry, but he's been in the league now for seven seasons. Most defensemen usually have their games together by now. He doesn't. And it hasn't been half the season. It's been over 60% of the season now that he's been terrible. I'm done with Coburn and I hope they move him. I hope they send him packing and don't look back. At this point, I'd rather have Matt Carle back, that's how bad Coburn has been.

Everyone was so quick to throw Carle under a bus, but it's funny how Coburn gets a pass because "he's having a bad year" or "he's being used incorrectly." The man is making $4.5 million dollars a year and he's the number 4 guy on this team. He's redundant. Grossmann and Schenn have passed him and Coburn is a no longer needed. Package him off and let him be someone else's problem as they try to get him to play to his potential.

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Old
03-18-2013, 11:05 PM
  #359
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id trade our first this year with a bit extra for bobby ryan

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Old
03-18-2013, 11:06 PM
  #360
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I hope bobby Ryan can play D!

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Old
03-18-2013, 11:11 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
No interest in dealing Couturier for Gormley--and the ~15 pick jump from our 2nd to their 1st isn't close to closing the value from my view.

I wouldn't do that Coburn deal either. I'd consider something around Coburn and Shattenkirk (an RFA, you never know) but I don't love it, and I wouldn't want to see him dealt for Rattie +

If we end up with the 1st pick, I see no reason to trade Coburn. He's a very solid top-4 defenseman on a decent contract. He's having a rough year because he's being asked to carry too much of the puck-moving burden. Jones can address that need long-term, and we can find a short-term fix for next season.

EDIT: I can see a case for moving Coburn if we end up drafting 3-5 or so (Drouin, Barkov, etc.). I think you look at moving Coburn + Laughton for a guy like Edler (+?). Canucks fans expressed some interest in that.

If we end up 6-10 or so, then I think you consider moving Coburn for Shattenkirk (assuming we draft Nurse, Zadorov, Ristolainen.

I'm not saying draft for need, but if the Flyers list is near the (current) consensus rankings, there's a decent chance that those are the guys who might be selected.


I don't think that's the reason for Coburn's struggles this season. Grossman does a pretty fair amount of the puck moving on that pairing, so it's a shared duty that he should be able to bear. He's struggled with penalties and other things that don't have to do with puck moving. Maybe it's not the right chemistry in his pairing, but this whole year has been a sh**t show in team defense and lots of guys look bad. A lot of players, including Coburn at the top of the list, should benefit form a new start and a "reset" next season.

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Old
03-18-2013, 11:12 PM
  #362
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Hartnell and Read for Ryan and Sbisa

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Old
03-18-2013, 11:14 PM
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Half a season?!?!?!?!? Have you watched Coburn the past seven years? If so, you would know he is the MOST inconsistent defenseman on this roster. With Coburn you can expect the following:

1) He starts the season off poorly
2) He begins to get his game together and starts playing collectively better
3) Just when you think Coburn is about to turn the corner and play consistently, he ends up crapping the bed
4) He then collects himself and begins to start playing better after getting a demotion in ice time
5) By the time the last fifth of the season comes around, Coburn really begins to put it all together
6) Come playoff time, Coburn is firing on all cylinders and plays like an all wold defenseman

What we're seeing this year is what Coburn is really all about. They needed him to be ready from the get go and he's failed everyone on the team. I'm sorry, but he's been in the league now for seven seasons. Most defensemen usually have their games together by now. He doesn't. And it hasn't been half the season. It's been over 60% of the season now that he's been terrible. I'm done with Coburn and I hope they move him. I hope they send him packing and don't look back. At this point, I'd rather have Matt Carle back, that's how bad Coburn has been.

Everyone was so quick to throw Carle under a bus, but it's funny how Coburn gets a pass because "he's having a bad year" or "he's being used incorrectly." The man is making $4.5 million dollars a year and he's the number 4 guy on this team. He's redundant. Grossmann and Schenn have passed him and Coburn is a no longer needed. Package him off and let him be someone else's problem as they try to get him to play to his potential.
Coburn has never played "all-world" caliber

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Old
03-18-2013, 11:15 PM
  #364
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id trade our first this year with a bit extra for bobby ryan
That would be like putting lipstick on a pig. We need to improve our defense situation which that 1st pick could help. Besides I rather wait until he hits free agency.

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Old
03-18-2013, 11:56 PM
  #365
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Lets just be honest for once


Neither Coburn or Carle are very good.


They had a decent stretch here, especially around 2010. But their time is done here. It's gotten stale, both sides need a change of scenery.



Carle is already a total whipping boy in TB. They hate him.

Wish I could say I was surprised.

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Old
03-19-2013, 07:52 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
Coburn has never played "all-world" caliber
As much as I despise Coburn, I'll give the man his due. Come playoff time, he is a fantastic player. He becomes a completely different player and shows what he's actually capable of doing. Unfortunately, it's only then. If he played like he does in the playoffs year round, I'd have no problem with the Flyers keeping him. But that's the problem - he doesn't play like that year round and there's about 25 to 30 games of the season he's horrid to watch.

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Old
03-19-2013, 08:27 AM
  #367
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id trade our first this year with a bit extra for bobby ryan
I don't like that idea much at all. It might make sense value-wise if we end up 6-10, but I don't think it improves our team in the long-run.

The way I see it, we're either taking a stud young defenseman, who at least gives us a potential #1, and assuming that some of the current pieces will rebound next year, or taking a potential franchise forward (MacKinnon, Drouin, etc.), which might make one of our current young forwards expendable in a trade for a potential top-pairing defenseman.

Wait for Ryan to be a UFA. By that point, we'll have some money off the books and, assuming our younger guys continue to progress, be in a better position to compete than we are right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBill1876 View Post
Hartnell and Read for Ryan and Sbisa
I'd instantly do that, which tells me it is awful for Anaheim.

Ryan > Hartnell
Sbisa = Read

Hartnell is older, while Read is UFA after next season. I can't see any reason for them to do that.

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Old
03-19-2013, 08:38 AM
  #368
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I don't like that idea much at all. It might make sense value-wise if we end up 6-10, but I don't think it improves our team in the long-run.

The way I see it, we're either taking a stud young defenseman, who at least gives us a potential #1, and assuming that some of the current pieces will rebound next year, or taking a potential franchise forward (MacKinnon, Drouin, etc.), which might make one of our current young forwards expendable in a trade for a potential top-pairing defenseman.

Wait for Ryan to be a UFA. By that point, we'll have some money off the books and, assuming our younger guys continue to progress, be in a better position to compete than we are right now.



I'd instantly do that, which tells me it is awful for Anaheim.

Ryan > Hartnell
Sbisa = Read

Hartnell is older, while Read is UFA after next season. I can't see any reason for them to do that.
Hartnell is older but is signed to a long cheap deal. He does more on the ice than bobby and can be just as productive. Id much rather have hartnell fr this team

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Old
03-19-2013, 08:45 AM
  #369
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Hartnell is older but is signed to a long cheap deal. He does more on the ice than bobby and can be just as productive. Id much rather have hartnell fr this team
His contract is good value for his production last season, sure. He's struggled coming back from the injury this year, and he seems more inclined to take the sort of stupid penalties that he did a few years ago--maybe a product of frustration. I expect he'll rebound next year.

That said, I still think Bobby Ryan holds more value than Hartnell. He's signed for two more years after this one at a cap hit that's only slightly higher than Hartnell's (5.1 v. 4.75).

Maybe it is a swap neither team does, but it certainly isn't one that Anaheim would be interested in (at least not until Ryan is a pending UFA in 2015)

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:10 AM
  #370
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Anyone with a big cap number next year is going to be very difficult to trade. With the cap dropping $6M, we were already going to have to amnesty Briere. Now, we're trying to convince someone to take a declining scorer with a huge cap number, AND find a team who can take his cap for next year. That boils down to basically St. Louis and the Islanders, and I don't think Briere desires playing for either team. Same goes for Meszaros, who looks awful, gets hurt, and is $4M on the cap for next year.


We might be able to get the Rangers, who are desperate, to take back Fedotenko and cross your fingers that we get a 4th round pick for him.

A decision also needs to be made on Gagne, hinging on whether or not he stays, goes, or goes and comes back. I'd prefer the latter unless he agrees on a deal no greater than $2M AAV.


Under no circumstances can the Flyers also be caught with bonus overages that flow into next season because of LTIR, in a year where they're not going to the playoffs.


Last edited by GKJ: 03-19-2013 at 09:16 AM.
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Old
03-19-2013, 09:24 AM
  #371
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Trading Coburn is a silly idea. We need him no matter what.
Trading Coburn for the sake of trading him is a silly idea. Equally silly is saying of any player that we need them no matter what. Any player can be traded to improve the team overall.

Coburn is an interesting trade option because I believe he has high trade value for a team looking for a second-pairing big body who will play physically and for big minutes. He is also expendable because he is a defensive defenseman – oh, if he would only develop his offensive game!! – among a roster of defensive defenseman (less Timonen). Turning Coburn into a strong two-way Dman with significant offensive upside who can play on the first pairing would be a huge move.

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03-19-2013, 09:25 AM
  #372
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Anyone with a big cap number next year is going to be very difficult to trade. With the cap dropping $6M, we were already going to have to amnesty Briere. Now, we're trying to convince someone to take a declining scorer with a huge cap number, AND find a team who can take his cap for next year. That boils down to basically St. Louis and the Islanders, and I don't think Briere desires playing for either team. Same goes for Meszaros, who looks awful, gets hurt, and is $4M on the cap for next year.


We might be able to get the Rangers, who are desperate, to take back Fedotenko and cross your fingers that we get a 4th round pick for him.

A decision also needs to be made on Gagne, hinging on whether or not he stays, goes, or goes and comes back.


Under no circumstances can the Flyers also be caught with bonus overages that flow into next season because of LTIR, in a year where they're not going to the playoffs.
I still think there are teams that could take Briere and possibly Mez. Someone floated the idea of Briere for Boyle, but I'm not really interested because his cap hit is worse (but for one less year than Briere).

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:32 AM
  #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Half a season?!?!?!?!? Have you watched Coburn the past seven years? If so, you would know he is the MOST inconsistent defenseman on this roster. With Coburn you can expect the following:

1) He starts the season off poorly
2) He begins to get his game together and starts playing collectively better
3) Just when you think Coburn is about to turn the corner and play consistently, he ends up crapping the bed
4) He then collects himself and begins to start playing better after getting a demotion in ice time
5) By the time the last fifth of the season comes around, Coburn really begins to put it all together
6) Come playoff time, Coburn is firing on all cylinders and plays like an all wold defenseman
You're saying he's inconsistent, but if he plays in this pattern every year, than isn't being consistent from year to year?

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:50 AM
  #374
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You're saying he's inconsistent, but if he plays in this pattern every year, than isn't being consistent from year to year?
Yes, he's consistently inconsistent......

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:25 PM
  #375
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Originally Posted by snoop88 View Post
Lets just be honest for once


Neither Coburn or Carle are very good.


They had a decent stretch here, especially around 2010. But their time is done here. It's gotten stale, both sides need a change of scenery.



Carle is already a total whipping boy in TB. They hate him.

Wish I could say I was surprised.
From what I've read they think Carle's a good #4, but that his contract makes him worthless. They're already speculating about buying him out next year.

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