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Changing of Styles Since the Cup Run

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:59 AM
  #51
mossey3535
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Not only that, but if we put Ehrhoff, Samuellsson and Grabner on this team - do they even play? If they do play, would they thrive?

Maybe we forget Sammy wasn't producing before we traded him. IMO that's partially because we started moving in a direction that didn't go with his skills. He was a crafty guy, not a mucker.

I really liked most of the guys we lost, but I don't think they would improve the team we saw tonight because they would still be playing a style that is the low-risk gelded version of 2010 that concentrates on 'defence'.

Really I would say the shift towards playing a safer style started against Nashville in the 2010 SCF run. We played their game against them and won. That was also the series where you got Henrik saying stuff like 'We have to be prepared to win games 2-1 or 1-0'.

Ever since then we've been incorporating more and more 'safe' hockey. Except we're not good at it. It's laughable that a 'dump and chase cycle' team can neither dump, chase or cycle for any length of time. But we keep trying to.

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03-19-2013, 12:59 AM
  #52
leftwinglockdown
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
He has more goals this season than any Canuck.
So? He has 3 assists. Shows how one-dimensional he really is.

The guy got to play with Nielsen who has been feeding him easy breakaway passes for 2 seasons and this season he's off his line and is doing terrible.

There's a reason Isles fans rag on him.

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:59 AM
  #53
Jyrki
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Originally Posted by timw33 View Post
Here is a reel of every goal we scored in 2010-2011:
Main differences:

-Skill in our complementary/depth players (Sammy, Torres, healthy Manny, even Tambellini)
-Healthy Kesler
-Functional power play

The 2nd point can't be helped, but GMMG has failed on #1 and coaching has failed on #3.

The way the goals were scored isn't all that different from what the team still tries to do. They just executed way better back then.

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03-19-2013, 01:00 AM
  #54
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by Brandonlee View Post
I also think this argument is bang on.

Can anyone tell me the last time the Canucks added a dynamic offensive player, either through trade or free agency? Probably Demitra who was at the end of his career.

Both Gillis and AV deserve equal blame. AV for coaching a rigid system that prefers grinders over skilled players. Gillis for allowing this garbage to continue.
Can you tell me the last time 90% of the GM's around the league have been able to add that player?

I just wish they grew on trees like people here seem to think they do, but the fact of the matter is they command an extremely high price, and in the free agent market they not only command top dollar which could ruin your salary structure but there are also 20-30 other teams that have interest.

I just wish variables were considered before people criticize every move that was made or not made.

Cause if we had followed alot of what fans have wanted and want there would have been alot of mistakes made, alot more than currently made.

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03-19-2013, 01:00 AM
  #55
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I've said it before and i'l say it again. This team lost it's soul/drive confidence in the cup loss. A pretty major overhaul is needed.

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Old
03-19-2013, 01:01 AM
  #56
medicinehattigers4
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Originally Posted by timw33 View Post
Here is a reel of every goal we scored in 2010-2011:

Watched the first 10 minutes and wept silently to myself. Should have never moved away from this style of play. The goalies have an off night you still increases your chance of winning if your pumping the net with 4 or 5 goals. Plus if hockey is only about money like some people claim it is this is way more entertaining than a grind it out 1-0 win and would be a bigger draw for people (not that the canucks need help with ticket sales)

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03-19-2013, 01:02 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by nonriotingcanucksfan View Post
Should have never moved away from this style of play.
They haven't, which is why they're having trouble in the first place. Due to how other teams play us, it morphed into a dump-and-chase system. But in reality, AV is still working with all the same basics he did in that season.

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03-19-2013, 01:04 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
I actually like the forward group quite a lot better as a playoff unit. The problem is the defense is just dreadful.
The problem is also this team's inability to score, not just defense.

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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
I find it somewhat presumptuous and even a little arrogant to suggest that the Canucks could achieve similar success simply by maintaining their personnel and style. Teams adapt and the league changes. The playoffs showed how to stymie the Canucks offense and that was box them out and let them shoot from the perimeter all night long. There's a reason that uber-skilled 2011 team was the lowest scoring team to make the SCF in NHL history and that's because they couldn't score in a tight playoff scenario.
It obviously had nothing to do with key players getting injured throughout the playoffs of course.

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03-19-2013, 01:06 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by TheMicrowave View Post
But this is about changing the style after the cup run. As far as I'm concerned, we had lots of question marks in our blueline and that's why we traded for Ballard.
Yeah he is part of the style which we threw in part of a bad deal. Can't see the future so don't blame gillis for Ballard, but fla didn't think much of the throw in anyways since they waved him. We could of kept him and have more skills through out the lineup.

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03-19-2013, 01:09 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by me2 View Post
Not sure why people bring up Grabner, he really contributed next to nothing while he was here. His being traded has nothing to do with anything when looking back at past teams.
Grabner is unique. Speedy and shifty. We would have found a way to use him.

Dont let his record on a poorly managed team get in the way. Its funny how people use bad teams as an excuse as to why players do good. I highly doubt the Sedins, Burrows or Kelser would be what they are now if they were shipped off to "the Island" in their first year.

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03-19-2013, 01:12 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
I find it somewhat presumptuous and even a little arrogant to suggest that the Canucks could achieve similar success simply by maintaining their personnel and style. Teams adapt and the league changes. The playoffs showed how to stymie the Canucks offense and that was box them out and let them shoot from the perimeter all night long. There's a reason that uber-skilled 2011 team was the lowest scoring team to make the SCF in NHL history and that's because they couldn't score in a tight playoff scenario.
Henrik, Kesler, Higgins, Samuelsson, Raymond, Malhotra, Hamhuis, Edler, Ehrhoff, Rome...

were either playing through serious injury or out of the lineup. What we had in the SCF bore little resemblance to the actual makeup of the team. Whereas the Bruins only had to deal without Horton.

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03-19-2013, 01:15 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Grabner is unique. Speedy and shifty. We would have found a way to use him.
Yep, since his ability to find ways to use young undersized offensively gifted players who don't fit into a standard system is what defines AV's coaching style.

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03-19-2013, 01:16 AM
  #63
opendoor
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Henrik, Kesler, Higgins, Samuelsson, Raymond, Malhotra, Hamhuis, Edler, Ehrhoff, Rome...

were either playing through serious injury or out of the lineup. What we had in the SCF bore little resemblance to the actual makeup of the team. Whereas the Bruins only had to deal without Horton.
They couldn't score in the first 2 rounds either when they were mostly healthy.

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Old
03-19-2013, 01:16 AM
  #64
mossey3535
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We also didn't play the rest of the 2010-2011 playoffs the same way as we started playing them against the Hawks. Go back and watch the highlights.

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03-19-2013, 01:17 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by leftwinglockdown View Post
So? He has 3 assists. Shows how one-dimensional he really is.

The guy got to play with Nielsen who has been feeding him easy breakaway passes for 2 seasons and this season he's off his line and is doing terrible.

There's a reason Isles fans rag on him.
It doesn't matter how you try and sugar coat it. Forget the assists..Forget the Isles fans you managed to dig up that have one bad thing to say about the guy.

Grabner would be better here and now.

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03-19-2013, 01:18 AM
  #66
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We used to have a personal problem, now we have a personnel problem. Sad really sad.

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Old
03-19-2013, 01:19 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Grabner is unique. Speedy and shifty. We would have found a way to use him.

Dont let his record on a poorly managed team get in the way. Its funny how people use bad teams as an excuse as to why players do good. I highly doubt the Sedins, Burrows or Kelser would be what they are now if they were shipped off to "the Island" in their first year.
The Sedins are only at a point per game this year because they're on a bad team and they're the only option.

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03-19-2013, 01:20 AM
  #68
leftwinglockdown
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Grabner is unique. Speedy and shifty. We would have found a way to use him.

Dont let his record on a poorly managed team get in the way. Its funny how people use bad teams as an excuse as to why players do good. I highly doubt the Sedins, Burrows or Kelser would be what they are now if they were shipped off to "the Island" in their first year.
It's true that the Isles are a poorly managed team but his role and ice-time have been pretty good for the past 2 seasons. The guy is as one-dimensional as it gets. He got to play with Nielsen who is hella underrated offensively and defensively and really carried that line.

He was in a pretty good situation there but there is a reason he finds himself on the 3rd line this season. The guy blows the zone and coughs up the puck a lot when he tries to go for his solo rushes. It worked in his first season there because he surprised opposing defenders who weren't expecting that from a relatively unknown player but now they know what he's up to when he's on the ice and have adjusted accordingly.

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Old
03-19-2013, 01:23 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by timw33 View Post
Here is a reel of every goal we scored in 2010-2011:
Notice how quickly the Canucks used to transition from their own end through the neutral zone. That was one of my favorite things to watch about the team that year. But look at how teams are playing the Canucks this year; they're clogging up the Neutral zone and preventing the Canucks from breaking out with speed. Even the players were talking about it a few weeks ago; receiving passes standing still. Erhoff or not I think teams have adapted enough that that style may not have been as effective today.

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03-19-2013, 01:23 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by rebel diamond View Post
Yep, since his ability to find ways to use young undersized offensively gifted players who don't fit into a standard system is what defines AV's coaching style.
Grabner was not undersized

He is 25

If Raymond is still on the team then Grabner could be too.

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Old
03-19-2013, 01:24 AM
  #71
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Hate to beat a dead horse, but it's coaching. It's been stated here many times before. The system was great when first implemented, and we were mostly healthy in 2010-11 at its zenith. But that system was broken by Boston's backcheck and boxing out, and by LA's tenacious forecheck/backcheck and boxing out.

AV has no response, and now other teams are mainly successful against AV's style. Yeah we're injured now, but they're obviously don't have faith in the system anymore. And when we open it up, we give up grade A chances galore and get torched even by mediocre teams.

We need fresh ideas behind the bench.

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03-19-2013, 01:26 AM
  #72
leftwinglockdown
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Originally Posted by Momesso View Post
Hate to beat a dead horse, but it's coaching. It's been stated here many times before. The system was great when first implemented, and we were mostly healthy in 2010-11 at its zenith. But that system was broken by Boston's backcheck and boxing out, and by LA's tenacious forecheck/backcheck and boxing out.

AV has no response, and now other teams are mainly successful against AV's style. Yeah we're injured now, but they're obviously don't have faith in the system anymore. And when we open it up, we give up grade A chances galore and get torched even by mediocre teams.

We need fresh ideas behind the bench.
Exactly. When you're the best in the league, people will try to figure out your system. I think the league has seen enough of how we play to write a book on us.

Couple that with loss of strength in key positions, players playing in spots where they shouldn't be playing and that is a recipe for what we see now.

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03-19-2013, 01:46 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Momesso View Post
Hate to beat a dead horse, but it's coaching. It's been stated here many times before. The system was great when first implemented, and we were mostly healthy in 2010-11 at its zenith. But that system was broken by Boston's backcheck and boxing out, and by LA's tenacious forecheck/backcheck and boxing out.

AV has no response, and now other teams are mainly successful against AV's style. Yeah we're injured now, but they're obviously don't have faith in the system anymore. And when we open it up, we give up grade A chances galore and get torched even by mediocre teams.

We need fresh ideas behind the bench.
Well said. It's like people think there's only one team on the ice and if the Canucks just kept playing the same way they did that season that they'd continue to have success. Unfortunately that seems to be what AV is thinking too.

We saw the first cracks in the system in the 2011 playoffs when teams were able to keep the team to the outside seemingly at will. A couple of individual offensive efforts (Kesler vs. Nashville and Sedin vs. San Jose) propelled the team through, but the overall team offense was quite lackluster through the entire run.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:54 AM
  #74
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I can't believe you actually convinced yourself of this.
I can't believe so many people are pushing the panic button. This team has been in this position before, lots of teams go through these ups and downs. Look at the rest of the conference standings. Vancouver has the 3rd least amount of regulation losses. Wild, Red Wings, Kings, Blues, Sharks all have 10 regulation losses. The Canucks aren't exactly a lottery team.

Do they have issues? Clearly, they could use a 3C and a RHD. Missing Kesler for a majority of the season hasn't helped either. Is it time to blow up the roster, fire all the coaches and rebuild? Not by a long shot.

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Old
03-19-2013, 03:01 AM
  #75
me2
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One thing that stands is that very first goal with Henrik on the left. It makes whichever LH shot is on the right much more dangerous. (we don't have a RHS shot atm to put on the LS). Also a better spot for him to be feeding Garrison.

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