Marty is a faster skater to keep up with Jags and besides let's keep their line intact. We have some good scoring on the wings.
Jagr will probably get at least 40
Shanny 30
Prucha 30
If you put Shanny on the first line i garuntee you that he will beat Straka's stats last year.
If you take Straka away from Jagr I guarantee you that his stats will drop dramatically from last year.
Precisely. I believe that Shanahan was brought in as "another dimension" that the team was lacking. He was not simply brought in the replace Syky/Rucinsky.
With Jagr, you have two two forwards that are 2nd liners at best (Nylander Straka) that are a year or two away from "going out to pasture" by playing in their respective homelands. Add to that two defensemen that before last season were viewed by most as "barely 2nd pairing D-men," and you end up with one of the more dominant top lines in hockey.
As long as Jagr has the puck, the other team doesn't score.
With Shanahan and Cullen brought in as 2nd line guys, they would probably better served playing with Prucha than with Straka.
If you take Straka away from Jagr I guarantee you that his stats will drop dramatically from last year.
Excaclly. The Straka-Nylander-Jagr line combined for 278 points last sesaon. If you keep them together and put Shanny on a the second line, you add scoring to that line. And that was why they went out and got him.
Excaclly. The Straka-Nylander-Jagr line combined for 278 points last sesaon. If you keep them together and put Shanny on a the second line, you add scoring to that line. And that was why they went out and got him.
And then Thats why I vote for Hall on the second line and Prucha on the third. That would furthermore balance the offense.
And then Thats why I vote for Hall on the second line and Prucha on the third. That would furthermore balance the offense.
But that is just silly. You can state that you want to balance scoring all you want, but I am betting that you cannot name another team that would place a 30 goal scorer on the 3rd line. By doing what you are doing, you are sliding past "balance scoring" and heading straight to the "law of diminishing returns".
You do not play 30 goal scorers on the bottom-2 lines.
But that is just silly. You can state that you want to balance scoring all you want, but I am betting that you cannot name another team that would place a 30 goal scorer on the 3rd line. By doing what you are doing, you are sliding past "balance scoring" and heading straight to the "law of diminishing returns".
You do not play 30 goal scorers on the bottom-2 lines.
I see where you're coming from, but I dont think its silly to think like that. If Prucha plays with Shanahan, and Shanahan puts up 40 goals, dont you think that would be at the expense of goals for Prucha? All I'm saying is IMO i think the second line will do marginally better with Prucha on it compared to without, BUT the third line will do significantly better with Prucha on it compared to without.
Prucha might not do better than last year if he's on the third line, but the Third line will, and in turn so will the Rangers as a whole.
I see where you're coming from, but I dont think its silly to think like that.
Look at it from this prespective. You want to replace Prucha, who scored 30 goals (14 at ES & 16 on the PP), with Hall, who scored 14 goals (4 at ES & 10 on the PP). Look at those numbers. Does this sound logical to you?
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If Prucha plays with Shanahan, and Shanahan puts up 40 goals, dont you think that would be at the expense of goals for Prucha?
Why? Who says that Prucha still does not net 30? Or maybe they both net 30. Moving a 30 goal scorer down a line just becuase of Shanny's presence does not make any sense.
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All I'm saying is IMO i think the second line will do marginally better with Prucha on it compared to without, BUT the third line will do significantly better with Prucha on it compared to without.
I understand what you are saying, but don't you think that if it was such a great idea, that all NHL teams would start to skate 30 goal scorers on the 3rd line? There is a reason why you cannot name one team that does. That is becuase there are none. Do you really think that by doing this, the Rangers have discovered some hidden way to win?
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Prucha might not do better than last year if he's on the third line, but the Third line will, and in turn so will the Rangers as a whole.
Do you suppose there is a reason why Havlat plays on the top-2 lines and not on the 3rd? Or Tanguay? Or Hedjuk? What you are proposing to do is to limit the ES minutes that our 2nd leading goal scorer played. That in itself makes little sense. What are the chances that the Devils will move Gionta down to the 3rd line so that they have more balanced scoring?
Well, unless Shanny plays RW for us, I don't see Prucha on the 2nd line. His Main spot is LW, and the top 2 LWs are taken.
That does not change the fact that he belongs on the top-2 lines. The solution to this issue is either play him with Jagr and move Straka to the 2nd line or simply play him as a RW on Shanny's line.
I do understand the desire to balance the three lines. Prucha on a third line, as long as he's not with Betts, could make sense, assuming Immonen can come in and be productive. My take on Prucha is he's better as a complementary player though, than as 'the man' on any line. He'd obviously do better with Jagr or a second line with Shanny, but that may not be best for the team. I think it may come down to who the centerman is on that line that should decide.
And I agree completely about Straka. It was tried last season. His scoring was about nil when not playing with Jagr. Yes, Shanahan with Jagr equals more scoring that Straka with Jagr. But, does Straka-Nylander-Jagr + Shanny-Cullen-right winger equal more than Shanny-Nylander-Jagr + Straka-Cullen-right winger? I think so. I don't think you make up in additional goals with Shanny than you'd lose with Straka.
Look at it from this prespective. You want to replace Prucha, who scored 30 goals (14 at ES & 16 on the PP), with Hall, who scored 14 goals (4 at ES & 10 on the PP). Look at those numbers. Does this sound logical to you?
Im not stupid, I knew perfectly well before making my post that Hall is not as offensively equipped as Prucha. But it's Hall's other attributes, the way he crashes the net and creates havoc in front, that can create for Shanahan, who thrives off chaos in front with alot of garbage goals, and Cullen, who with room is lethal.
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Why? Who says that Prucha still does not net 30? Or maybe they both net 30. Moving a 30 goal scorer down a line just becuase of Shanny's presence does not make any sense.
Of course that can happen, but it is also possible it doesn't. To say that its not possible is false, so then it could make some sense.
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I understand what you are saying, but don't you think that if it was such a great idea, that all NHL teams would start to skate 30 goal scorers on the 3rd line? There is a reason why you cannot name one team that does. That is becuase there are none. Do you really think that by doing this, the Rangers have discovered some hidden way to win?
No I dont think it is a new hidden way to win, but I think it is the optimal thing to do in the Rangers' situation. You have to play Straka with Jagr, or he doesn't do **** this year. Next comes Shanahan. Of course Pruchs can play out of position, but why do it when you have a capable power forward, and Prucha can do good on a line w/ Immo and Ward (IMO he can).
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Do you suppose there is a reason why Havlat plays on the top-2 lines and not on the 3rd? Or Tanguay? Or Hedjuk? What you are proposing to do is to limit the ES minutes that our 2nd leading goal scorer played. That in itself makes little sense. What are the chances that the Devils will move Gionta down to the 3rd line so that they have more balanced scoring?
Because those players are not third on the depth chart in their respective positions. Of course this would have to work if Renney plays the third line more than usual. All I'm saying is to try this cause it IS POSSIBLE it can work. And if it doesn't, like when anything doesn't work, feel free to change it.
So it is written, so it will come to pass....And to be a little different..
Straka-Nylander-Jagr
Shanny-Cullen-Prucha (or Prucha and SHanny switch) -
Rucinsky-Immo-Hall (Rangers will eventiually sign Rucisnky for one year)
Hollweg-Bets-Orts
Bench - Orr, Ward (Dawes will be in Hartford)
Can also see Prucha playing with Immonen and switching with either Hall or Rucisnsky ---
If no Rucisnsky, the bottom two lines will be Hall-Immo-Ward; HBO
D, Goalie - Pretty much how everybody has it...
One big caveat is that I still think Sather has a big move up his sleeve to bring in a Top 6 forward....
Im not stupid, I knew perfectly well before making my post that Hall is not as offensively equipped as Prucha. But it's Hall's other attributes, the way he crashes the net and creates havoc in front, that can create for Shanahan, who thrives off chaos in front with alot of garbage goals, and Cullen, who with room is lethal.
I did not call you stupid. However, you cannot look at those numbers and deny them. You do not replace a 30 goal scorer with a 14 goal scorer. Especiall when only 4 came at even strenght. That would be like the Devils replacing Gionta with Grant Marshall. And for the same reasons.
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No I dont think it is a new hidden way to win, but I think it is the optimal thing to do in the Rangers' situation.
If it is so optimal, then there must have been just one example of one team that it would have been optimal for as well. The fact that you cannot come up with another team to do such an action speaks volumes if it's validity.
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Of course Pruchs can play out of position, but why do it when you have a capable power forward, and Prucha can do good on a line w/ Immo and Ward (IMO he can).
The point is not whether or not he can, but rather just how wise it is to do so. Again, if it is so wise, then why don't more teams (or actually ANY teams) do it?
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Because those players are not third on the depth chart in their respective positions.
But they are amongst their respective teams leaders in scoring. His wing position does not change that.
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Of course this would have to work if Renney plays the third line more than usual.
There are no NHL teams that play their 3rd line more at ES than their top-2 lines. The top line gets the most ES minutes, the 2nd line gets the 2nd most, etc.
I think the Rangers may be better off having Shanahan create room for someone, as opposed to Hall creating room for Shanny (just a thought, as I think reality would be different). I personally keep flipping on who should be where. I would really like to see Prucha on a left wing. I think he's most comfortable there, and I don't think he played from the right side (he gets off better shots from the lest side, so I think you want him to do that). I further believe that since Straka is here, his most useful position is on the top line. I just don't see him being too productive on a third line. I like the guy a lot, but he's best served complementing Jagr. Hall, in all honesty, would look best with Cullen and Ward on a third line. A hustling, hitting line with good defense and a fair amount of skill too. Perhaps it doesn't bring out the best in Hall, but I think that's a nice line. But I believe Cullen will be the second line centerman for Shanny. So what's best? Prucha on a third line and Hall on the second line, which of course leaves Hossa out of the picture almost entirely (unless we are to believe he's going to play on a fourth line, which I'm not sure I'm in love with).
I'd rather not see Prucha on a fourth line, but I don't know if there's a more optimal solution. We can forget 30 goals from him (even though extrapolated to 82 games it would've been a fair amount more, and if you assumed he wasn't getting less than 10 minutes of ice time which he did and was consistently on the PP, it would be a good deal more). In this role, I'd hope for 20 goals over 82 games. Yeah, great way to build upon his last season, but realistically, his PP minutes will be cut, as will his PP minutes with Jagr, and thus the PP goals will suffer. His output on the third line will suffer too. But given the make-up of the team, I don't know if I see any other outcome (other than trading Prucha as I get the sense that Renney thinks differently of him than many in here do - perhaps using the Rozsival argument that anybody could've gotten those 16 PP goals, and the Rangers have Shanahan to do it now).
EDIT: There's always the possibilty of Prucha and Straka flip-flopping during the season, pretty much like last season, which proved to be successful.
I thnk it would be unfair as hell for Prucha, who gave everything he had an scored 30 goals, to be playing on the 4th line this year. What kind of message is that sending? We're building towards youth, but we're going to have one of our best young scorers playing with the 4th line with Ortemeyer?
I think the Rangers may be better off having Shanahan create room for someone, as opposed to Hall creating room for Shanny (just a thought, as I think reality would be different). I personally keep flipping on who should be where. I would really like to see Prucha on a left wing. I think he's most comfortable there, and I don't think he played from the right side (he gets off better shots from the lest side, so I think you want him to do that). I further believe that since Straka is here, his most useful position is on the top line. I just don't see him being too productive on a third line. I like the guy a lot, but he's best served complementing Jagr. Hall, in all honesty, would look best with Cullen and Ward on a third line. A hustling, hitting line with good defense and a fair amount of skill too. Perhaps it doesn't bring out the best in Hall, but I think that's a nice line. But I believe Cullen will be the second line centerman for Shanny. So what's best? Prucha on a third line and Hall on the second line, which of course leaves Hossa out of the picture almost entirely (unless we are to believe he's going to play on a fourth line, which I'm not sure I'm in love with).
I'd rather not see Prucha on a fourth line, but I don't know if there's a more optimal solution. We can forget 30 goals from him (even though extrapolated to 82 games it would've been a fair amount more, and if you assumed he wasn't getting less than 10 minutes of ice time which he did and was consistently on the PP, it would be a good deal more). In this role, I'd hope for 20 goals over 82 games. Yeah, great way to build upon his last season, but realistically, his PP minutes will be cut, as will his PP minutes with Jagr, and thus the PP goals will suffer. His output on the third line will suffer too. But given the make-up of the team, I don't know if I see any other outcome (other than trading Prucha as I get the sense that Renney thinks differently of him than many in here do - perhaps using the Rozsival argument that anybody could've gotten those 16 PP goals, and the Rangers have Shanahan to do it now).
EDIT: There's always the possibilty of Prucha and Straka flip-flopping during the season, pretty much like last season, which proved to be successful.
I can't envision a scenario where Prucha on the 4th line is an optimal solution.
from all reports, Shanahan doesn't create room on the ice anymore. Guy's become more of a sniper than a power forward. He'd benefit with someone to create space for him and suffer if he had to do it himself.
True Blue... Prucha scored 2 more goals than a 3rd-line Shawn McEachern in 92-93 on the Penguins. The same Shawn McEachern who proceeded to play on the 3rd line the next season in both LA and Pittsburgh. There's one. Now that I found one, can you drop it? If I wanted to, there are plenty more out there to find... just gotta do the research. 28 goals is close enough to a 30 goal scorer for the purposes of this conversation, and by the way... that was 2 minutes of looking it up.
I'd really like Dawes on the third line to add some scoring. But I'm afraid to have two rookies on a line. Maybe they start Betts on the third line and put Dawes on his win and drop Immonen down and scratch Hollweg. Otherwise, I'd go with that.
The three forward lines will get equal playing time. They are the way they are for chemistry reasons... balance. Nobody panic because Prucha is on the third line.
