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2013-14 Flyers Overhaul

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Old
03-19-2013, 01:35 AM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
Let me get this straight:

9 months ago Homer wouldn't trade Couturier in a package for Shea Weber... and now he'll do it for a prospect and a pick?

Besides, we could get David Rundblad for much less than Sean Couturier. He seems to have fallen out of favor in Phoenix. I know some of the more reputable Coyote's posters are interested in a deal around Briere/Rundblad.

If we were to package Couturier for a Phoenix defenseman, his name better rhyme with Keith Yandle.
Interesting. How about this?

(Check edited post in a few minutes)

Edit: nvm, couldn't think of a solution that didnt involve completely retyping the post haha

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Old
03-19-2013, 01:51 AM
  #127
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I mean I like your ideas with the exception of trading Sean for that package.

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Old
03-19-2013, 01:58 AM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
If we were to package Couturier for a Phoenix defenseman, his name better rhyme with Keith Yandle.
I'm not sure about this, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Phoenix has any defenseman on their roster that have names that rhyme with Keith Yandle.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:43 AM
  #129
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I wonder is something around Hartnell+ for Yandle might work for both sides? I think Hartnell would be a good fit in PHX and obviously Yandle solves our biggest problem.

I also wonder about something around Couturier+ for Bobby Ryan (after this season obviously). If Koivu retires, the Ducks would have a need for another center and I think Couturier would be a solid fit. The only worry I have is that the "+" might be a little too rich for our blood.

After seeing these Getzlaf and Perry re-signings, I'm also thinking that it might be a decent idea to make a big offer-sheet to an RFA defenseman. I mean, if #1Cs/Wingers are worth upwards of 8M (and that's not even with them hitting the open market), what would the going price for a #1D be? If both Shattenkirk and Pietrangelo make it to the summer unsigned, I think we could potentially back St. Louis into a corner with a big offersheet to Shatty. And then if they match that, they're kind of in a tough spot w/ Pietrangelo because he'll want more than Shatty got and STL might not be able to afford it.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:46 AM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Here's my revamped rebuilding plan.

Trade Briere to Boston for a 1st.
Trade Meszaros to Sj for a 2nd
Trade Couturier to Phoenix for Rundblad and a 1st
Trade Coburn to the blues for Rattie and a 1st.
Rest of the season

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Schenn - Read
Gagne - Noebels - McGinn
Rinaldo - Talbot - Fedotenko

Timonen - Schenn
Rundblad - Grossmann
Manning - Gervais

Bryzgalov
Moron

draft: (hypothetical place holders for where the picks would end up)
Trade Scott Hartnell, STL 1st (23) BOS 1st (28) for Bobby Ryan
1st (1 PHL) - Seth Jones
1st (17 PHX) - Anthony Mantha

Offseason:
Buyout Bryzgalov
Sign Jimmy Howard
Sign a solid backup (???)
Sign Douglas Murray

Next season:

Ryan - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Schenn - McGinn
Read - Laughton - Rattie
Rinaldo - Talbot - ????

Timonen - Schenn
Grossmann - Rundblad
Murray - Jones

Howard
????

2014-2015

Ryan - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Schenn - Mantha
Read - Laughton - Rattie
???? - ???? - ????

Jones - Schenn
Grossmann - Rundblad
Murray - Gostisbehere/????

Howard
????/Stolarz?

Hartnell>ryan. And a better contract

Any stl trade needs to involve allen

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:54 AM
  #131
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Not sure if this is the right thread but I got to thinking how sad it is that exactly the player this team needs to be much more competitive is on the roster but unavailable due to no fault of management. That player is, of course, Chris Pronger.

Sorta makes me take a pass on being upset at Homer.

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:21 AM
  #132
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Why is anybody talking about trading for Bobby Ryan when the Flyers two best scorers are their two top right wings in Voracek and Simmonds? Are the Flyers going to field a team of right wings and centers?

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Old
03-19-2013, 08:32 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
I wonder is something around Hartnell+ for Yandle might work for both sides? I think Hartnell would be a good fit in PHX and obviously Yandle solves our biggest problem.

I also wonder about something around Couturier+ for Bobby Ryan (after this season obviously). If Koivu retires, the Ducks would have a need for another center and I think Couturier would be a solid fit. The only worry I have is that the "+" might be a little too rich for our blood.

After seeing these Getzlaf and Perry re-signings, I'm also thinking that it might be a decent idea to make a big offer-sheet to an RFA defenseman. I mean, if #1Cs/Wingers are worth upwards of 8M (and that's not even with them hitting the open market), what would the going price for a #1D be? If both Shattenkirk and Pietrangelo make it to the summer unsigned, I think we could potentially back St. Louis into a corner with a big offersheet to Shatty. And then if they match that, they're kind of in a tough spot w/ Pietrangelo because he'll want more than Shatty got and STL might not be able to afford it.
This is my hope, but it's probably unrealistic. The good thing about Homer though is he is one of the few GM's in the league with the guts to actually try it.

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03-19-2013, 08:47 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
Why is anybody talking about trading for Bobby Ryan when the Flyers two best scorers are their two top right wings in Voracek and Simmonds? Are the Flyers going to field a team of right wings and centers?
I believe Ryan has played more LW than RW over the past few seasons (to accomodate Perry and Selanne).

That said, I don't think the Flyers should be trading for him at this point, barring some other move to address the defensive issues.

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Old
03-19-2013, 08:49 AM
  #135
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St. Louis will match anything. They actually have a stable ownership.

Not sure if people have picked up on it, but these young, high end players, other teams actually want to keep them. You're not supposed to let great players walk away if you're trying to build a winning team. Especially defensemen.

The one guy who changed teams on an offer sheet, was grossly overpaid, because the Ducks didn't find it prudent to give Dustin Penner a big contract based on one year of production, which they were right to do since he's never topped 50 points more than once. Offer sheets are not for aggressive GMs, they're for desperate ones. And then both teams were still irrelevant after the fact.

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03-19-2013, 08:53 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
St. Louis will match anything. They actually have a stable ownership.

Not sure if people have picked up on it, but these young, high end players, other teams actually want to keep them. You're not supposed to let great players walk away if you're trying to build a winning team. Especially defensemen.

The one guy who changed teams on an offer sheet, was grossly overpaid, because the Ducks didn't find it prudent to give Dustin Penner a big contract based on one year of production, which they were right to do since he's never topped 50 points more than once. Offer sheets are not for aggressive GMs, they're for desperate ones. And then both teams were still irrelevant after the fact.
What about the team's current situation, and history suggest to you that the GM will not be desperate, also considering the fact that he tried this very thing last offseason?

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03-19-2013, 09:01 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
What about the team's current situation, and history suggest to you that the GM will not be desperate, also considering the fact that he tried this very thing last offseason?
He might still try it. I'm saying it won't work.


If the Flyers land a defenseman via offer sheet, there is a 97% chance Holmgren is giving him a terrible contract that will hamstring the team further in some way. I'm leaving 3% open in case they can steal Jared Spurgeon from the Wild.

If they go after a forward (we need 2 or 3 of them, too), they might be able to con the Oilers into coughing up Paajarvi via offer sheet if for some reason Tambellini is still their GM.

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:12 AM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyBoarder View Post
Not sure if this is the right thread but I got to thinking how sad it is that exactly the player this team needs to be much more competitive is on the roster but unavailable due to no fault of management. That player is, of course, Chris Pronger.

Sorta makes me take a pass on being upset at Homer.



In a sense the Pronger injury kind of helped the Flyers "move on" in a sense.


People are getting a little over the top with this idea that Pronger being here would change everything. At age 39, who's to say that he would still be playing a top level?

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:02 AM
  #139
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Allen is the future #1 of the Blues. Elliott is leaving instead, and maybe very, very soon. Someone (2 players actually) has to leave for Andy to be back in the lineup tonight & then Oshie returns on Saturday.

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Old
03-19-2013, 11:27 AM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyBoarder View Post
Not sure if this is the right thread but I got to thinking how sad it is that exactly the player this team needs to be much more competitive is on the roster but unavailable due to no fault of management. That player is, of course, Chris Pronger.

Sorta makes me take a pass on being upset at Homer.
Maybe the Chris Pronger of 5 years ago. If Pronger was still playing, we'd most likely be talking about him like we do Kimmo.

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:13 PM
  #141
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Since I'm apparently getting nothing done today anyway, let me take a crack at this....

This is a fairly conservative plan. Nothing sexy. Most of the deals have been discussed at some level on the trade forum or here, and the big two have had at least one fan from the opposing team indicate interest.

- Trade Briere for a late 1st (BOS or ANA) or Bishop + Noesen / 2nd (OTT)
- Trade Meszaros to WPG for a 2nd or Paul Postma link
- Trade Fedotenko for a 3rd (no source, but reasonable)
- Re-sign Gagne (conservative guess, 2 years @ $3 AAV, though I'd hope for less)

That's my starting point.

- I'm struggling to see the next step if we buy out Bryzgalov. Signing Nick Backstrom (G) @ roughly the same cap hit seems counterproductive long-term. I think it is more likely that they go with Bryzgalov again next year, acquiring a young (perhaps RFA) goalie to compete with him and provide the organization with another option going forward.

- If we do what I've sketched above, we would clearly need another defenseman. If we draft Jones, I think he makes the team. If we don't, we will need to sign someone or (if we end up drafting an elite C) trade from an area of strength to fill the hole.

If the trade options above were all open to me and if we had the #1 or #2 pick and could draft Jones, I think I'd lean toward:

- Briere + 2013 4th (PHX) for Bishop + Noesen
- Mezsaros for 2013 2nd (WPG) (they have their own, CHI, and a compensatory pick in the 2nd round)
- Send Laughton back to juniors.
- Sign a veteran winger to fill the 2nd-line spot, drop Read to 3RW, and drop Talbot to 4C. I've ear-marked $3 million, but depending on the quality of player, there's more available.

That would leave:
Quote:
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Veteran Winger ($3.000m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Simon Gagne ($3.000m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Tye McGinn ($0.775m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Seth Jones ($1.700m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Bruno Gervais ($0.825m) / Chris Pronger ($4.936m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Ben Bishop ($1.250m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,562,381; BONUSES: $2,800,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $5,537,619

Top Prospects:
- S. Laughton (C)
- S. Noesen (RW)
- S. Gostisbehere (D)
- A. Stolarz (G)
- Best available @ ~ 31st-32nd overall (PHI)
- Best available @ ~ 45th overall (WPG)
- Best available @ ~ 62nd-63rd (PHI)
This scenario provides a reasonably strong core going forward, and leaves ample cap space for short-term fixes and long-term re-signings. It also wouldn't (necessarily) require the Flyers to LTIR Pronger for the entire season. But it is heavily dependent on drafting Jones.

If we end up with one of the elite forwards, then I'd explore a trade option. If Vancouver would really entertain (as some of their fans have suggested) a Coburn + Laughton for Edler + framework, I think I'd prefer that to a deal that gives up Couturier.

Timonen - Schenn
Edler - Grossmann
____ - Gustafsson / etc.


Last edited by Jack de la Hoya: 03-19-2013 at 12:56 PM.
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03-19-2013, 12:40 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
What about the team's current situation, and history suggest to you that the GM will not be desperate, also considering the fact that he tried this very thing last offseason?
Massive difference. Weber is at the top right now. We offered him a big cap hit and a ton of years. We can't offer years anymore...playing field has been leveled. If you really want pietro, 7 yrs 12m per should do it...but do you want to pay that for such an unproven guy? Skirk, probably 9 m over 7 and hes out....

"you guys" and your dumb 6m offersheets...it's not going to work....

It HAS to be egregious.

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03-19-2013, 12:41 PM
  #143
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Couple of the posters on the PHX board are bouncing around the idea of Yandle for Couturier and Briere. Thoughts on that basic framework for a deal?

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03-19-2013, 12:48 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Couple of the posters on the PHX board are bouncing around the idea of Yandle for Couturier and Briere. Thoughts on that basic framework for a deal?
Don't want to give up Couturier. Not selling low.

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03-19-2013, 12:53 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Don't want to give up Couturier. Not selling low.
I'm not sure Yandle is selling low--in the sense of what established NHLer Couturier could fetch without another valuable asset included. But I'd prefer a Coburn + Laughton for Edler + pick framework, which some Canucks fans have expressed interest in.


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03-19-2013, 01:04 PM
  #146
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Couple of the posters on the PHX board are bouncing around the idea of Yandle for Couturier and Briere. Thoughts on that basic framework for a deal?
Yandle is a slightly better Carle. I don't get the love affair. If people hated Carle, they will hate Yandle.

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03-19-2013, 01:47 PM
  #147
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Massive difference. Weber is at the top right now. We offered him a big cap hit and a ton of years. We can't offer years anymore...playing field has been leveled. If you really want pietro, 7 yrs 12m per should do it...but do you want to pay that for such an unproven guy? Skirk, probably 9 m over 7 and hes out....

"you guys" and your dumb 6m offersheets...it's not going to work....

It HAS to be egregious.
My strategy wasn't to end up w/ Shattenkirk... my strategy was to end up w/ Pietrangelo, who is easily the better overall player.

Based on the financial troubles of the StL franchise, you have to assume they're looking to give both Shatty and Pietro a bridge contract or possibly a medium-length one where they buyout a few years of UFA. You'd have to think they're perhaps looking @ that OEL deal as a model for Pietro.

So you start out by offersheeting Shattenkirk @ around 7M per for 6 years. Not egregious, but still difficult to match. And with the new NHL rules, for a 7M cap-hit, you can still structure the deal so that Shatty would receive $12M in the first year.

You hope that StL matches that, but if not, then you've just got yourself a heck of a defenseman.

If they do match though, now they've just agreed to pay their 2nd best defenseman well over what they wanted/planned to pay. Now Pietrangelo demands more, so we swoop in w/ a 2nd offer sheet @9M per year for 6 years. And we can structure it so that Pietro receives $15M in his first year.
__________________________

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I can't see the StL owners shelling out $27M next year for 2 defensemen when they also have Berglund and Stewart as RFAs who need to be re-upped, Andy McDonald who needs to be re-signed / replaced, etc.

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03-19-2013, 02:33 PM
  #148
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Probably not the best thing to be excited about...but I was thinking the other day how much of a terror a 4th line of Rinaldo-Laughton-Cousins could be next year or down the road. Could be a lot of fun and they would drive opposing teams and their fans nuts .

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03-19-2013, 02:55 PM
  #149
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Hartnell>ryan. And a better contract

Any stl trade needs to involve allen
you honestly believe that hartnell is a better player than bobby ryan?

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03-19-2013, 03:22 PM
  #150
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Yandle is a slightly better Carle. I don't get the love affair. If people hated Carle, they will hate Yandle.
You hit the nail on the head.

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