HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Desharnais signed to a contract extension (4 years @ $3.5M/yr)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-18-2013, 04:42 AM
  #701
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
1) DD and Kristo are not in competition.

2) even if they were, it is irrelevant that Kristo gave some beer to minors.

Bergevin is the GM of the Habs, not the pope.
Kristo did display a "let's party all night" behaviour in the past year. I wouldn't trust him within 50km of Montreal with that track record.

Worrying, considering the potential move of the Dogs in Laval.

PricePkPatch is online now  
Old
03-18-2013, 04:43 AM
  #702
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,443
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Here you have a basis for one game.
Go on Boxscore and then click on Play-by-play on the right.

From this you can extract the info:
  • Trick is to extract the headers and keep the raw data (report scrapping).
  • Then put it in a database.
  • The regenerate the play-by-play (to validate the process).
  • Then use the database to analyze the data.
Best would be to get raw data from NHL (in table format).
All their game reports comes from a database that is almost real time (probably materialized views).

It is not so simple but quite simple, a few tables in a database (maybe 20) should do the job (teams, seasons, games, players, players-date, event-type, events, events-players (seems NHL model only handle two players per event at the moment so this may not be needed) etc.).
It represents significant work (probably hundreds of hours not thousands).

Thing is that when you produce more reports of different style, it adds more time.
Also validation of the model is adding more work.

EDIT: BTW, I am not saying how it is done but how I would do it...
Thanks so much. I'm not a techie, so I'll just trust your estimate of perhaps thousands of hours. A heady undertaking for an individual.

It looks as if the players for each event are listed, but when there are significant time gaps between events, then it's not so easy to determine who was on the ice and who wasn't. There seems to be enough inherent error due to this that-at the very least- the stats derived from this need to be interpreted in a directional rather than in any absolute manner. To what extent I wouldn't even hazard a guess at this point.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 03-18-2013 at 04:53 AM.
Cyclones Rock is offline  
Old
03-18-2013, 04:54 AM
  #703
25get
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,667
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Thanks so much. I'm not a techie, so I'll just trust your estimate of perhaps thousands of hours. A heady undertaking for an individual.

It appears as though the player entries at the various times of the play-by-play are done by entire forward unit and defensive pairing. By that I mean that the forward units and defensive pairings are constant until an entire new unit or pairing is entered. So, individual changes (a new forward or defenseman) are not part of this information. This would open up some of the stats obtained via these sheets to significant error-or so it would appear to me.
I was thinking hundreds not thousands but a more precise estimate would need more time... Also depends on the organization where you implement.

About the data, it is not perfect but you can certainly get a good idea.
Looking at this you can see that Ference-Hamilton is replaced by Hamilton-Seidenberg at 1:55. So it is not about unit.

What is missing the adding events for players in and out. These are probably in the NHL database but not published.

Still a lot more information can be derived from this than anything else you have.

25get is offline  
Old
03-18-2013, 04:58 AM
  #704
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,443
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
I was thinking hundreds not thousands but a more precise estimate would need more time... Also depends on the organization where you implement.

About the data, it is not perfect but you can certainly get a good idea.
Looking at this you can see that Ference-Hamilton is replaced by Hamilton-Seidenberg at 1:55. So it is not about unit.

What is missing the adding events for players in and out. These are probably in the NHL database but not published.

Still a lot more information can be derived from this than anything else you have.
I did edit-evidently after you quoted me-after I noticed that there were differences in units/pairings which I hadn't noted (been up for around 24 hours...I'll give myself a pass).

Thanks for your help on this. Have a good one.

Cyclones Rock is offline  
Old
03-18-2013, 05:40 AM
  #705
JusticeBeaver
Twitter: @gar****al
 
JusticeBeaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Charlottetown
Country: Canada
Posts: 621
vCash: 500
Tinordi making this team will be bad for Desharnais.

Did you see how high he had to jump to celebrate after Tinordis game winning shot? Can't be good on those ankles.........

And no need to poop on Kristo. Did nobody here drink in college? Even if you adopt the 'athletes have to hold themselves to a higher standard' mentality, I'd give him a pass. I seem to remember Toews having similar troubles in UND, and well there ya go. I'm pulling for him to make camp and win over everyone throughout the year in either league (once the contract is signed that is).

JusticeBeaver is offline  
Old
03-18-2013, 10:40 AM
  #706
Akipa
HFB Partner
 
Akipa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 110
vCash: 500
Possible solutions to the Canadiens logjam at centre post Desharnais signing

http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/03/...jam-at-centre/

Akipa is offline  
Old
03-18-2013, 10:41 PM
  #707
dackelljuneaubulis02
Registered User
 
dackelljuneaubulis02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
The cap is going up ... way up.

They estimate 2.4 million revenues this year ... which is around 72% of the amount they got last season .. so they have 72% revenue in 58% schedule .. without the all star game and the Winter classic.

The cap is going up, by a lot.
Thanks. So what you're saying is we are in phenomenal shape.

So is there a fixed formula in place?

dackelljuneaubulis02 is offline  
Old
03-19-2013, 08:18 AM
  #708
One Man Rock Band
Slater's Gonna Slate
 
One Man Rock Band's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 43,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akipa View Post
Possible solutions to the Canadiens logjam at centre post Desharnais signing

http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/03/...jam-at-centre/
Like a lot of people here, the article makes absolutely zero sense. The logjam at center will not have to be dealt with, other than the fact that someone is going to move to the wing.

Look at the Bruins, they have at least 5 regular centers in their top-9. Depth at center is huge. Eller or Galchenyuk will play wing for 3-4 years. Simple as that.

One Man Rock Band is online now  
Old
03-19-2013, 08:22 AM
  #709
Ginu
Registered User
 
Ginu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,679
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akipa View Post
Possible solutions to the Canadiens logjam at centre post Desharnais signing

http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/03/...jam-at-centre/
Why not just put DD on the opposite wing to Pacioretty? Simple.

Ginu is offline  
Old
03-19-2013, 08:27 AM
  #710
BaseballCoach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,876
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
Why not just put DD on the opposite wing to Pacioretty? Simple.
And why don't you just start driving on the wrong side of the street, using a British car?

BaseballCoach is offline  
Old
03-19-2013, 08:35 AM
  #711
BaseballCoach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,876
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
Like a lot of people here, the article makes absolutely zero sense. The logjam at center will not have to be dealt with, other than the fact that someone is going to move to the wing.

Look at the Bruins, they have at least 5 regular centers in their top-9. Depth at center is huge. Eller or Galchenyuk will play wing for 3-4 years. Simple as that.
Of course. This was done with Jacques Lemaire in his youth, and can be done again......easily!

Once Galchenyuk is ready to be the #1 centre, Eller can move to #2LW with Plekanec and solidify that two-way line, being better defensively than Bourque

Galchenyuk-Gallagher-Pacioretty
Plekanec-Gionta-Eller
Desharnais-Leblanc/Kristo-Bourque
Prust-Dumont-Moen
Bournival/White

The above assumes we lose the following forwards to Free Agency:
Ryder
Armstrong
Nokelainen

and that we re-sign the captain Gionta for a bit less money

BaseballCoach is offline  
Old
03-19-2013, 09:03 AM
  #712
Captain Smurf
Naively Optimistic
 
Captain Smurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Thornhill, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
And why don't you just start driving on the wrong side of the street, using a British car?


I'm not sure how moving DD to the opposite wing of Patches in the future is such a ridiculous notion.

Also, when you make line-ups, its LW-C-RW, not C-W-W.

Captain Smurf is offline  
Old
03-19-2013, 09:13 AM
  #713
impudent_lowlife
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: Japan
Posts: 782
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
Why not just put DD on the opposite wing to Pacioretty? Simple.
Definitely an idea to consider, as it looks like Desharnais needs Pacioretty more than visa versa.

impudent_lowlife is offline  
Old
03-19-2013, 09:17 AM
  #714
impudent_lowlife
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: Japan
Posts: 782
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akipa View Post
Possible solutions to the Canadiens logjam at centre post Desharnais signing

http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/03/...jam-at-centre/
Trading the Habs' best centre? Not a good idea.

impudent_lowlife is offline  
Old
03-19-2013, 09:26 AM
  #715
Dr Gonzo
#1 Jan Bulis Fan
 
Dr Gonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bat Country
Posts: 4,336
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
And why don't you just start driving on the wrong side of the street, using a British car?
Not sure I get your analogy.

Did he suggest playing Price on the wing or something?

Dr Gonzo is offline  
Old
03-19-2013, 09:32 AM
  #716
impudent_lowlife
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: Japan
Posts: 782
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Price on the wing or something?
Price would be an awesome power forward and he can fight.

impudent_lowlife is offline  
Old
03-19-2013, 10:07 AM
  #717
BaseballCoach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,876
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Not sure I get your analogy.

Did he suggest playing Price on the wing or something?
He suggested playing DD out of position on RW, or playing him out of position on LW and ALSO playing Max Pac out of position on RW.

It's quite obvious who is the most winger-like of our 4 top centremen (and it isn't DD or TP), but due to adaptation issues, right now they are using Galchenyuk there. It won't last. He will be a superstar Centre one of these years.

BaseballCoach is offline  
Old
03-19-2013, 10:10 AM
  #718
Dr Gonzo
#1 Jan Bulis Fan
 
Dr Gonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bat Country
Posts: 4,336
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
He suggested playing DD out of position on RW, or playing him out of position on LW and ALSO playing Max Pac out of position on RW.

It's quite obvious who is the most winger-like of our 4 top centremen (and it isn't DD or TP), but due to adaptation issues, right now they are using Galchenyuk there. It won't last. He will be a superstar Centre one of these years.
I know what he suggested (DD on the wing), and frankly I would like the team the try him there as well at some point. In fact, I've seen this suggested by not only a plethora of fans, but several hockey analysts. Eller is less of a liability defensively speaking, and Desharnais' size is more suitable for the wing. It doesn't need to happen right away, but it could definitely be an option in the future.

It's really not an outrageous proposal at all. Didn't warrant the over the top sarcasm.

Dr Gonzo is offline  
Old
03-19-2013, 10:23 AM
  #719
WeThreeKings
Registered User
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,128
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I know what he suggested (DD on the wing), and frankly I would like the team the try him there as well at some point. In fact, I've seen this suggested by not only a plethora of fans, but several hockey analysts. Eller is less of a liability defensively speaking, and Desharnais' size is more suitable for the wing. It doesn't need to happen right away, but it could definitely be an option in the future.

It's really not an outrageous proposal at all. Didn't warrant the over the top sarcasm.
If one of our centers gets regulated to wing when Galchenyuk is ready to be an NHL C, it will be DD.

The only ones who don't see that.. well, they are blinded for some reason. You want size down the middle. Eller-Plekanec are more defensively responsible at the center position. DD has played wing in the past and been effective.

WeThreeKings is online now  
Old
03-19-2013, 10:44 AM
  #720
Kjell Dahlin
Registered User
 
Kjell Dahlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Québec, Québec
Posts: 1,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
If one of our centers gets regulated to wing when Galchenyuk is ready to be an NHL C, it will be DD.

The only ones who don't see that.. well, they are blinded for some reason. You want size down the middle. Eller-Plekanec are more defensively responsible at the center position. DD has played wing in the past and been effective.
I think you are the one being “... blinded for some reason...”.

Desharnais has borderline elite vision and he is physically weak even when you compare him to other small guys like Gionta, Bouillon, Saint-Louis... His contribution is optimised at C.

Eller’s flaws (puck hog, small case of tunnel vision) and his wingers like instincts (driving the net, shoot first, pass second) are telling us a clear story imo: he is more suited for wing duties.

As soon as Galchenyuk is ready to assume C duties, Eller will look good on Plekanec’s LW: good size, great two ways play, drives the net, does not shy away from heavy traffic... and he already showed good stuff as a winger on Desharnais’ line while Pacioretty was injured.

Eller – Plekanec – Bourque will be a very good tough minutes line for us... in 1-2 years.

As soon as Galchneyuk is ready to assume C duties:

1. Eller – Plekanec – Bourque
2/3. Pacioretty – Desharnais – Gallagher
3/2. Prust – Galchenyuk - Gionta

Kjell Dahlin is offline  
Old
03-19-2013, 10:47 AM
  #721
WeThreeKings
Registered User
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,128
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
I think you are the one being “... blinded for some reason...”.

Desharnais has borderline elite vision and he is physically weak even when you compare him to other small guys like Gionta, Bouillon, Saint-Louis... His contribution is optimised at C.

Eller’s flaws (puck hog, small case of tunnel vision) and his wingers like instincts (driving the net, shoot first, pass second) are telling us a clear story imo: he is more suited for wing duties.

As soon as Galchenyuk is ready to assume C duties, Eller will look good on Plekanec’s LW: good size, great two ways play, drives the net, does not shy away from heavy traffic... and he already showed good stuff as a winger on Desharnais’ line while Pacioretty was injured.

Eller – Plekanec – Bourque will be a very good tough minutes line for us... in 1-2 years.

As soon as Galchneyuk is ready to assume C duties:

1. Eller – Plekanec – Bourque
2/3. Pacioretty – Desharnais – Gallagher
3/2. Prust – Galchenyuk - Gionta
Eller does not have tunnel vision. DD would excel in a role similar to what St. Louis has in Tampa Bay. Eller is a natural center. He's better defensively. He's a big body down the middle. He has some of the best hands on the team and as a result, he is able to stickhandle in traffic and gain the zone. He plays the entire ice surface.

You have to look at the center position far beyond just the offensive aspect of scoring goals or setting them up. Center has the most responsibilities. DD would be better sheltered away from the defensively responsiblities of being the center and focusing more on getting open and letting his vision shine through when he gets the puck. He won't be marginalized on the wing the same way Eller would be and has been.

WeThreeKings is online now  
Old
03-19-2013, 10:56 AM
  #722
hogtownhabsfan*
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
And why don't you just start driving on the wrong side of the street, using a British car?

hogtownhabsfan* is offline  
Old
03-19-2013, 11:05 AM
  #723
Ginu
Registered User
 
Ginu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,679
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
And why don't you just start driving on the wrong side of the street, using a British car?
Because that doesn't follow the rules. DD belongs on the wing

Ginu is offline  
Old
03-19-2013, 11:07 AM
  #724
Ginu
Registered User
 
Ginu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,679
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
He suggested playing DD out of position on RW, or playing him out of position on LW and ALSO playing Max Pac out of position on RW.

It's quite obvious who is the most winger-like of our 4 top centremen (and it isn't DD or TP), but due to adaptation issues, right now they are using Galchenyuk there. It won't last. He will be a superstar Centre one of these years.
Just opposite wing to Pacs. Pacs -> LW, DD -> RW.

Ginu is offline  
Old
03-19-2013, 11:08 AM
  #725
Ginu
Registered User
 
Ginu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,679
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I know what he suggested (DD on the wing), and frankly I would like the team the try him there as well at some point. In fact, I've seen this suggested by not only a plethora of fans, but several hockey analysts. Eller is less of a liability defensively speaking, and Desharnais' size is more suitable for the wing. It doesn't need to happen right away, but it could definitely be an option in the future.

It's really not an outrageous proposal at all. Didn't warrant the over the top sarcasm.
The ironic thing is his name is BaseballCoach lol

Ginu is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:00 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.