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Trade Rumours Thread Part V: Gaborik "available"; LeBrun: NYR interested in D. Boyle

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:00 AM
  #576
NY Lito
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Anyone else think Torts would absolutely destroy Bobby Ryan? That seems like a match made in hell for me. Want no part of him if Torts is here for the foreseeable future.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:14 AM
  #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Here is a tough one
Hagelin for Kassian?
I'm sorry, how is that a "tough one"?

Hagelin, 54 points in 92 nhl games (48 points/82 games played)

Kassian 18 in 70 (21 per 82)

Hagelin is quite literally, twice the player Kassian is.

This isn't even remotely a tough one. Night in night out, Hagelin is usually one of the Rangers 3 best players. He's a difference maker.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:20 AM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Khris Creider View Post
Never saw Bure play, I'm 18 so I've never seen him play. But I understand your points, I really do, trust me.. I just want him to be skating hard, and playing decent defense, he could go out there and score 50 goals if he really wanted to, he just doesn't play with the effort. I believe we could find some decent pieces for Marian. I understand what your saying. But respectfully I disagree with you about keeping Gaborik.
I am not saying to keep Gaborik for the length of his contract. But I am saying to hold onto him this year and let him go out there and get into a groove. It will come. He is too talented. The team as a whole as played bad awful. Sometimes when it rains it pours. When everyone is playing bad it trickles down through the individual play as well.

Gaborik, Richards, Nash all looked a lot better tonight.

I'd like to see Kreider brought back up. I preferred for tomorrow night's game against the devils. He has played well against that organization in his short career. But I doubt we'll see it. Though we won tonight, we still were only able to put one goal in the net in regulation. I felt they dominated the play in the 2nd, didn't get to see the 3rd. It looked like they were creating space. Kreider with space could be deadly.

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:43 AM
  #579
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I tried to read back through several pages of this thread.... What page or post # was it reported that Gaborik was 'available'?

Thanks.

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:28 AM
  #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
I proposed this on the trade board early today. It got pretty good responses from the three fan bases.



Receive:
Vancouver's 2013 1st.
Kassian
Booth/Raymond
Edmonton's 2013 2nd.



Receive:
Gaborik
Edmonton's 2014 1st
NYR's 2013 3rd


Receive:

Luongo
Boyle


Analysis:

NYR essentially replenishes what the team lost in the Nash trade, receiving two roster players and a first round pick in this year's draft. Vancouver get's the goalscorer they are in the market for while simulatenously clearing Luongo's salary to fit Gaborik easier. Vancouver also receives Edmonton's 2014 first round pick which is likely to be somewhere between excellent (first overall) to fair (about twelfth or so) and NYR's 2013 3rd. Edmonton receives the NHL ready players at positions that desperately need filling, those positions being in net and at 3C. Note that I did not have Edmonton giving up their 1st this year because

1.) They know it's more likely to be sweeter than the 2014 pick
2.) They're trading their 2nd round pick to NYR in this scenario, which would leave them without a 1st and a 2nd at the draft if they trade this year's 1st too.
3.) They know that Vancouver still sees value in their 2014 pick.
Nah, not what we need really IMHO. Two -- more or less -- depth forwards.

I am definitely not the biggest Gabby fan, but I don't see the need to move him just to move him so to speak.

Id look to get more than depth.

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Old
03-19-2013, 07:17 AM
  #581
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Bob Murray has attempted to trade Bobby Ryan twice. No team met his asking price which was ridiculous. Not even the Flyers who have had a hard on for Ryan for years were willing to part with bounty demanded by Anaheim.

BTW,Helm had a setback in his return from a back injury. He has a torn disc.

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Old
03-19-2013, 07:20 AM
  #582
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I'm not sold trading Gaborik is a good idea, unless we get a similar player in return who plays left wing.
I think you make a coaching change first. When 3 of your top 3 players aren't scoring lately, the system is the more likely culprit.

I was watching two videos of Gaborik. One from prelockout. He looked a lot faster. Then I saw the 5 goal game. While being "fast", he didn't have nearly the wheels he had pre-injuries. All goals were scored from his offensive play away from the puck, ie: being in the right place at the right time.

He needs to be on a line with a centre who can not only hold onto the puck, but dish it too. Or at least play in a system where he isn't being relied on to create chances, rather finish every one. He'd thrive IMO with a guy like Spezza. Regardless, the system needs to be adjusted so that players look for him in lanes in the offensive zone. A zero creativity system means he isn't able to be utilized properly. This is compounded with him playing on the wrong side.

Tortorella was right when this team lacked talent. Now we need a coach who will nurture this talent.

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Old
03-19-2013, 08:45 AM
  #583
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I say hold on to Gaborik until the draft. I still think this team comes together and makes a solid playoff push. Just add a vet UFA to be true 3rd line center and a vet 5/6 dman and go to war.

I think the return for him will be better at the draft with both Perry and Getzlaf resigned already. Teams in the lottery may want to retool in the off season instead of a full rebuild like Nashville, Calgary, possibly Colorado, and may be even the Oilers, who are loaded with top young talent but might want to add a top vet goal scorer without a long-term contract to be tied to.

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:05 AM
  #584
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The more people who re-sign, like Perry, Getlaf and Zajac, the more value Gaborik will have if they move him.

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:18 AM
  #585
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Yes. You're right. I have a feeling a move can happen. But I'm scared that we won't replace him.

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:24 AM
  #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
Yes. You're right. I have a feeling a move can happen. But I'm scared that we won't replace him.
That's why I say move him at the draft. More options and better return. Unless he takes a bit of a pay cut next off season I don't see how he's brought back. Better to get a decent return for him while you can.

Don't see the Rangers moving him during the season next year unless they fell out of playoff position by the deadline. Think it's this summer or never.

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:28 AM
  #587
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trade haglin for Kassian??

for the ones that posted that, did you see hags play last night, they guy is an animal.. so much speed, finally using his body to defend the puck and create offensive chances..

and for bobby ryan.. hahahhahahha
i wouldnt even want to know the asking price on him.. they would want so much.. and since hes signed cheap ducks will ride out his contract and do same thing with perry and getsz.. theyll try to sign him but if not theyll trade him...

they would want one of staal/mcd, kreider/miller, and step and a 1st prob..
we cant afford to do anything like that.. we need to grow our team.. we're a mess and dubi/aa trade for nash set us back, with the addition of 6 other fwds.. we need chemistry and keep this team together or tweak it..

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:55 AM
  #588
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Trading Gaborik would be such an exceptionally stupid move. I think anyone here would trade a few down years for a cup, and anyone that says they wouldn't just doesn't understand sports. Ask any fan would they rather be the Braves (always the bridesmaid, never the bride) or the Marlins (2 titles and a whole lot of crap) and I think, almost to a person, they'd take the titles.

The cap isn't an issue until 2014. I think we're all in agreement that, no matter how well he plays, because of the cap-recapture provision, Richards is a goner after next year (otherwise known as the last we can use a compliance buyout). That 2014 team is going to be dog-****, assuming McDonagh comes in at about a $4 million cap hit when he's extended (if Staal got it, I think McDonagh gets it too). Even if Kreider and Miller become skilled forwards, and assuming McDonagh and Hagelin get the Sather 2 year special, and Richards is bought out, the only players we're guaranteed to have in 2014 are Staal, McDonagh, Hagelin, Miller, Kreider, and Nash. This team is all about this year, and to a much greater extent, next year. You don't blow up next year before it even has a chance when all the talent here is either under-contract or controlled for 2013/14. It's exceptionally stupid and, as counter intuitive as it sounds, short sighted. Trading one of your 4 skilled forwards to add pieces doesn't make any sense when this team's window is literally this year and next.

You want to make a move? Fire the coach. The talent is here, the results aren't. That's not on any one player.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:02 AM
  #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
The more people who re-sign, like Perry, Getlaf and Zajac, the more value Gaborik will have if they move him.
I for sure think Gabby got value.

If you don't spend assets and money or him you got two options: i) keep your assets and spend money on someone else or ii) keep your assets and spend money on someone else.

But there just aint much out there to spend your money on. And there are plenty of teams looking to improve and improve alot. There are alot of teams who mismanage young promising players because they have to take too much responsiblity early and don't get the leadership they need. We got a proven player more or less in his prime, of course there is going to be more than takers out there.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:04 AM
  #590
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Originally Posted by tjs252 View Post
Trading Gaborik would be such an exceptionally stupid move. I think anyone here would trade a few down years for a cup, and anyone that says they wouldn't just doesn't understand sports. Ask any fan would they rather be the Braves (always the bridesmaid, never the bride) or the Marlins (2 titles and a whole lot of crap) and I think, almost to a person, they'd take the titles.

The cap isn't an issue until 2014. I think we're all in agreement that, no matter how well he plays, because of the cap-recapture provision, Richards is a goner after next year (otherwise known as the last we can use a compliance buyout). That 2014 team is going to be dog-****, assuming McDonagh comes in at about a $4 million cap hit when he's extended (if Staal got it, I think McDonagh gets it too). Even if Kreider and Miller become skilled forwards, and assuming McDonagh and Hagelin get the Sather 2 year special, and Richards is bought out, the only players we're guaranteed to have in 2014 are Staal, McDonagh, Hagelin, Miller, Kreider, and Nash. This team is all about this year, and to a much greater extent, next year. You don't blow up next year before it even has a chance when all the talent here is either under-contract or controlled for 2013/14. It's exceptionally stupid and, as counter intuitive as it sounds, short sighted. Trading one of your 4 skilled forwards to add pieces doesn't make any sense when this team's window is literally this year and next.

You want to make a move? Fire the coach. The talent is here, the results aren't. That's not on any one player.
I get what you’re saying, but the consensus here is that we need players that are tough and physical, who can also score. I would only want Gaborik moved in the right deal. A smart move could set up the Rangers so that they aren’t “dog crap” in 2015, which by the way I don’t see happening anyway. We have a strong young defense, a good scoring core developing around and all world goalie, yet in 2 years we turn to **** according to you?

Gaborik will eventually regain his scoring touch, but will it be too late this season? Will he start off great next season and succumb to another injury in a full 82g season, limping again into the post season? You have to take this into consideration.


Last edited by JeffMangum: 03-19-2013 at 10:24 AM.
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Old
03-19-2013, 10:06 AM
  #591
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I for sure think Gabby got value.

If you don't spend assets and money or him you got two options: i) keep your assets and spend money on someone else or ii) keep your assets and spend money on someone else.

But there just aint much out there to spend your money on. And there are plenty of teams looking to improve and improve alot. There are alot of teams who mismanage young promising players because they have to take too much responsiblity early and don't get the leadership they need. We got a proven player more or less in his prime, of course there is going to be more than takers out there.
Sather doesn't lose on trades. If Gaborik is moved, it will be for a good return. If not, then I trust that not making a move was the best move for Gaborik.

Regardless we should try to bolster our bottom 6/defense.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:23 AM
  #592
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Where are the results with the Rangers? For a team with Cup aspirations,making the playoffs will not be easy. Nash,Callahan and Gaborik all play the same position. If the Rangers were a top 3 seed in the east and they were humming along,it would be a different story. The pieces haven't fit. Move Gaborik in the summer if the deal isn't there in the next 2 weeks.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:30 AM
  #593
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Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
Yes. You're right. I have a feeling a move can happen. But I'm scared that we won't replace him.
He has 1 goal in his last 13 games and doesnt really contribute much at all when hes not scoring.

The Gaborik of last year would be difficult to replace -- the Gaborik we've seen this year is easily replaceable.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:35 AM
  #594
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
The more people who re-sign, like Perry, Getlaf and Zajac, the more value Gaborik will have if they move him.
True, but I dont think that applies to the next 2 weeks. I think it applies more to the offseason.

Think of it this way, which team is going to be willing to give up several assets for a struggling Gaborik right now?

The return will be better if Sather waits until the offseason, when 29 others teams didnt win the cup/are looking to make changes, and where Sather can better make the argument that Gaborik just needs a change of scenery to be a 40 goal guy again. It wont be easy to make that trade/that argument when scouts are seeing what we see from Gaborik every night -- which is next to nothing.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:38 AM
  #595
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Gaborik has a total of 113 goals in his 3+ years with the Rangers. He has struggles 20 games this season.
20 games is not good enough sample size to make a judgement on whether he is easy to replace or not.
You are asking a team to provide a return based on his career production but are trading him because of 20 games?
Sather should not move him unless it makes the team better, otherwise I am not going to sell low and will take my chances with Gaborik finding his groove again.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:44 AM
  #596
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GMs around the league know what kind of player Gaborik is already, waiting until the offseason isn't going to improve Sather's argument about a change of scenery. What will hurt Sather's options is the amount of teams that all feel they are still within contention as the deadline approaches.

Regardless, the best deals will be made in the offseason. If this team is willing to forgo success this year for next, then they wont be hasty.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:54 AM
  #597
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GMs around the league know what kind of player Gaborik is already, waiting until the offseason isn't going to improve Sather's argument about a change of scenery. What will hurt Sather's options is the amount of teams that all feel they are still within contention as the deadline approaches.
You ask every GM about Gaborik, and you'll probably get 30 different responses ranging from "dynamic 40 goal scorer" to "soft/overpaid player on the wrong side of 30"

Whats the point in a mad 2 weeks dash to unload a player that can be so polarizing, when the offseason provides more time for Sather to kick the tires with all the teams around the league?

I hope Sather is concentrating more on acquiring 3rd line depth with no terms beyond this season, rather than trading Gaborik.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:58 AM
  #598
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I go back to Phoenix again, good working relationship, history of trades.
Would like to get Lombardi and/or Stone from them, just not sure what the price will be.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:59 AM
  #599
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id trade him off season if anything.. with perry and getzs being the cream of the crops in FA.. there will be a lot of trades for team to get that top line talent.. gaboriks value will be higher then..

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Old
03-19-2013, 11:20 AM
  #600
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You ask every GM about Gaborik, and you'll probably get 30 different responses ranging from "dynamic 40 goal scorer" to "soft/overpaid player on the wrong side of 30"

Whats the point in a mad 2 weeks dash to unload a player that can be so polarizing, when the offseason provides more time for Sather to kick the tires with all the teams around the league?

I hope Sather is concentrating more on acquiring 3rd line depth with no terms beyond this season, rather than trading Gaborik.
Call me crazy, but I imagine Sather has enough time during the day to pursue both avenues with equal vigor.

Frankly, this should be true of every GM - but especially so of Slats, who so clearly leans incredibly heavily on Gorton, Clark and Schoenfeld (and Riseborough and so on and so on) for pro scouting, prospect scouting, minor league management, cap management, etc.

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