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2013 Draft Discussion (Mar. 29 article, post #976)

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Old
03-19-2013, 08:54 AM
  #626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Two years takes him to his age 20 season. That's when Malkin came over and ahead of Tarasenko and Kuznetsov. He's not ready next year, so basically you're waiting on one year. There's always going to be the "Russian Factor" with Russian players. You have to do your homework. That said, he should be in the discussion. Not saying he should be the pick but to talk about taking guys like Monahan, Ristolainen, Zadaorov, Lindholm and not even have him in the discussion just doesn't seem right. He's a cut above those guys if we're talking strictly hockey.
I think it is reasonable to leave him out of the discussion when you are talking about the draft though. Strictly hockey he may be better, but draft-wise he may be riskier. Whether it is a fair characterization or not, people are wary of drafting Russian players, especially ones who they are concerned may not be willing to come to NA. I know it would worry me as a GM. If a Swede had a two year contract in the SEL I wouldn't be concerned. But a Russian with a two year contract in the KHL is very worrisome if I am using a high first round pick on him. Obvisouly if the guy is a can't miss prospect that would alleviate some of that worry, but I think it is perfectly reasonable to have those concerns.

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Old
03-19-2013, 08:57 AM
  #627
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Did anyone hear Timmy P on the pregame show suggest trading our high first rounder for Ryan Whitney?
Wow he must be on drugs! Timmy P. is brutal.

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03-19-2013, 08:59 AM
  #628
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I hope to god we can get a top3 pick, if the hockey gods would give us one break, it would be that. Obviously Jones would our ideal choice, but getting Mac or Drouin does one of two thins for us.

A) Mac gives Giroux someone who should finish on a more regular basis. Giroux needs that guy who can finish.

B) Drouin allows us to run two deadly lines, almost like the pens and hawks do with Malkin/Crosby and Toews/Kane

This also allows us to move someone like Schenn or Couts for a young dman or for a package for a #1 type guy.

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Read-Drouin-Schenn
McGinn-Laughton-Simmonds
Feds-Talbot-Rinaldo

With Cousins in the pipe

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03-19-2013, 09:01 AM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
You think the Flyers are making the playoffs?
Odds are against them now. But I will wait to pass judgement on them when it is officially over

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03-19-2013, 09:01 AM
  #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Codith View Post
I hope to god we can get a top3 pick, if the hockey gods would give us one break, it would be that. Obviously Jones would our ideal choice, but getting Mac or Drouin does one of two thins for us.

A) Mac gives Giroux someone who should finish on a more regular basis. Giroux needs that guy who can finish.

B) Drouin allows us to run two deadly lines, almost like the pens and hawks do with Malkin/Crosby and Toews/Kane

This also allows us to move someone like Schenn or Couts for a young dman or for a package for a #1 type guy.

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Read-Drouin-Schenn
McGinn-Laughton-Simmonds
Feds-Talbot-Rinaldo

With Cousins in the pipe
Doesn't Drouin play on the wing?

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03-19-2013, 09:04 AM
  #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Codith View Post
I hope to god we can get a top3 pick, if the hockey gods would give us one break, it would be that. Obviously Jones would our ideal choice, but getting Mac or Drouin does one of two thins for us.

A) Mac gives Giroux someone who should finish on a more regular basis. Giroux needs that guy who can finish.

B) Drouin allows us to run two deadly lines, almost like the pens and hawks do with Malkin/Crosby and Toews/Kane

This also allows us to move someone like Schenn or Couts for a young dman or for a package for a #1 type guy.

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Read-Drouin-Schenn
McGinn-Laughton-Simmonds
Feds-Talbot-Rinaldo

With Cousins in the pipe
I'm not sure that Drouin will end up at C. He's got the skill and playmaking, but what about the physical edge and defensive play. Basically, is he closer in playing style to Giroux or Briere?

If we are at 3 and Mackinnon and Jones are off the board, then I think he's the pick, but I wouldn't move Couturier because we acquired Drouin. I also prefer Read to Simmonds on the 3rd line.

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Drouin - Schenn - Simmonds
Gagne - Couturier - Read
McGinn - Talbot - Rinaldo

Gagne is a placeholder for a few different guys who could slot there over time--McGinn, Laughton (if moed to LW), etc.

EDIT: For those who have seen more of him, is Drouin really the 5'10/5'11 185 lbs that ISS has him listed at? That's more solid than I thought--I thought he was close to 170 than 190.

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03-19-2013, 09:09 AM
  #632
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
- Barkov
- Lindholm
- Monahan
- Nichushkin
- Nurse
- Ristolainen
The player that I want to see the Flyers get out of this group is Ristolainen. Not to dog the other players, but aside from Jones, who I don't expect to last until the Flyers choose, he's going to be the best of the lot. He's already playing in a pro league which has exposed him to the level of the game that he will be playing in the future. Size, ability to play physical and puck moving ability are all there. At worst, he'll be a second pairing defenseman; at best he's a #1.

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03-19-2013, 09:13 AM
  #633
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I think Alexander Barkov is exactly what this team needs, besides defense. He is a big left handed power forward who likes to hold onto the puck and survey the ice. Sounds a bit like Jagr.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=50044
http://www.mynhldraft.com/2013/NHL-D...ksander-Barkov

I would take him over anyone else besides Seth Jones. Drouin would be tough to pass up but this team could use a player with some size with the tight checking way the game is being played.

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03-19-2013, 09:14 AM
  #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I think Alexander Barkov is exactly what this team needs, besides defense. He is a big left handed power forward who likes to hold onto the puck and survey the ice. Sounds a bit like Jagr.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=50044
http://www.mynhldraft.com/2013/NHL-D...ksander-Barkov
Don't we have that in Voracek?

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:17 AM
  #635
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
He spent time in Colorado, but was born and raised in Texas, no?
That's why I said local. His hockey career started when his dad was playing in Denver. He was an Avalanche fan. His dad talked to Sakic about getting him started in hockey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I'm not sure that Drouin will end up at C. He's got the skill and playmaking, but what about the physical edge and defensive play. Basically, is he closer in playing style to Giroux or Briere?

If we are at 3 and Mackinnon and Jones are off the board, then I think he's the pick, but I wouldn't move Couturier because we acquired Drouin. I also prefer Read to Simmonds on the 3rd line.

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Drouin - Schenn - Simmonds
Gagne - Couturier - Read
McGinn - Talbot - Rinaldo

Gagne is a placeholder for a few different guys who could slot there over time--McGinn, Laughton (if moed to LW), etc.

EDIT: For those who have seen more of him, is Drouin really the 5'10/5'11 185 lbs that ISS has him listed at? That's more solid than I thought--I thought he was close to 170 than 190.
Drouin is a natural center. He grew up a center and only moved to the wing to play with MacKinnon. There would obviously be some adjustment, but much like Giroux he could get it done. He's much closer to Giroux than Briere.

As far as his size, he is very well built for an 18 year old. He has that Crosby like build. Strong lower half.

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03-19-2013, 09:18 AM
  #636
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Don't we have that in Voracek?
He's a center with a very solid defensive game as well.

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03-19-2013, 09:19 AM
  #637
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
That's why I said local. His hockey career started when his dad was playing in Denver. He was an Avalanche fan. His dad talked to Sakic about getting him started in hockey.

Drouin is a natural center. He grew up a center and only moved to the wing to play with MacKinnon. There would obviously be some adjustment, but much like Giroux he could get it done. He's much closer to Giroux than Briere.

As far as his size, he is very well built for an 18 year old. He has that Crosby like build. Strong lower half.
Yeah, I'm aware of the story re: Sakic and Popeye, but I'm not sure that would put a substantial amount of pressure on the Avs to draft him.

Thanks for the info on Drouin. I'm still a bit wary about moving Schenn to wing--he hasn't thrived in that role to date--but it sounds like a nice problem to have.

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03-19-2013, 09:20 AM
  #638
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Don't we have that in Voracek?
He's bigger than Jake, but why can't the Flyers have another one? This team is getting killed on the boards.

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03-19-2013, 09:21 AM
  #639
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I think Alexander Barkov is exactly what this team needs, besides defense. He is a big left handed power forward who likes to hold onto the puck and survey the ice. Sounds a bit like Jagr.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=50044
http://www.mynhldraft.com/2013/NHL-D...ksander-Barkov

I would take him over anyone else besides Seth Jones. Drouin would be tough to pass up but this team could use a player with some size with the tight checking way the game is being played.
How is Barkov's skating?

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03-19-2013, 09:24 AM
  #640
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Who would this remind you of more

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K7YDx0M51WE

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03-19-2013, 09:25 AM
  #641
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I worry about Drouin's defensive game where he is at now. Is that a fit for a team already struggling with the quality of defense played by the forwards? Could end up being not a real concern in the end, but you have to wonder.

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03-19-2013, 09:27 AM
  #642
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Drouin is great defensively, you don't need to worry about that. He isn't Briere lol

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03-19-2013, 09:28 AM
  #643
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
How is Barkov's skating?
It's not the greatest, but I don't think it is as bad a Couturier though. He is one of the youngest players in this draft, so I don't think it is anywhere near what it will be down the line.

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03-19-2013, 09:37 AM
  #644
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
EDIT: For those who have seen more of him, is Drouin really the 5'10/5'11 185 lbs that ISS has him listed at? That's more solid than I thought--I thought he was close to 170 than 190.
I saw one site that had him listed at 190. I was shocked, as that's usually what you expect from guys that are a couple inches taller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
I worry about Drouin's defensive game where he is at now. Is that a fit for a team already struggling with the quality of defense played by the forwards? Could end up being not a real concern in the end, but you have to wonder.
If he's going to play wing it shouldn't matter as much, especially if you have him with two other solid two way players.

The concern I'd have is that he's shooting at like 25%. Is that normal for high-end prospects in juniors and a reflection of his skill compared to his league, or is his goal scoring something that isn't going to translate to the NHL? I don't know much about players in juniors as far as peripheral stats like that are concerned.

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03-19-2013, 09:58 AM
  #645
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http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=108661

Stats for Nichushkin.

His best numbers have come from the MHL and VHL. He's also spent the majority of his season in those two leagues and right now, he's not getting much ice time with Traktor. You'll have to bear with me because I'm not up to speed on scouting in Europe. I don't have a lot of European contacts and the last time I spoke with a European scout, that was what I was informed with regards to Nichushkin - he turned down an opportunity to come to North America and decided to stay in the MHL, which is a lower Russian league. It's not up to the level that the CHL is at and that's what had a lot of scouts seeing red flags. Obviously, from the WJC and the Subway series, the kid has talent. He's one of those players who would have been better served coming to North America.

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03-19-2013, 10:10 AM
  #646
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The concern I'd have is that he's shooting at like 25%. Is that normal for high-end prospects in juniors and a reflection of his skill compared to his league, or is his goal scoring something that isn't going to translate to the NHL? I don't know much about players in juniors as far as peripheral stats like that are concerned.
I'd be lying if I said I knew historical percentages of CHL goal scorers, but I don't see that as a concern at all. That means the kid is playing at another level. He's doing what he's supposed to be doing if not more. He's obviously too good for that league and he's proving it. Say even he's 50% of that at the NHL level- by my math that's 12.5%. That said, you're not just getting Drouin for his goal-scoring, you're getting him for his ability to make plays at a higher level than most.

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03-19-2013, 10:13 AM
  #647
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Drouin is a playmaker first, but when he chooses to shoot he typically makes the most out of it. He is essentially a mix of Kane and Giroux. It's like he has Girouxs body and physical nature, with the hands of Kane, with a mix of hockey IQ from Giroux/Kane/Crosby

That is about the easiest way to put it lol.

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03-19-2013, 10:14 AM
  #648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Codith View Post
Drouin is a playmaker first, but when he chooses to shoot he typically makes the most out of it. He is essentially a mix of Kane and Giroux. It's like he has Girouxs body and physical nature, with the hands of Kane, with a mix of hockey IQ from Giroux/Kane/Crosby

That is about the easiest way to put it lol.
If all that is true, why isn't he the consensus #1, or even the consensus top forward?

Sincere question, what does MacKinnon have over Drouin, and what does Drouin have over MacKinnon?

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03-19-2013, 10:20 AM
  #649
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This roster would be set if they are able to draft one of Jones/Mackinnon/Droun. Jones is the obvious choice but getting Mackinnon/Drouin opens up so many trade possibilities.

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03-19-2013, 10:20 AM
  #650
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Well depending on who you talk to he is most scouts top pick for forward. Mackinnon plays like Crosby does, that drive you see him bring. He just doesn't have the playmaking skills that sets Crosby apart. Drouins hockey IQ is just off the charts, Mac is up there too but just not on the same level.

If a team wants a forward over D then Drouin I can see being #1

But I think Jones is one of those franchise Defense that most teams need more so then a #1 forward. That's why I think Jones has the advantage.

Like with the Flyers, do you draft a guy who is going to be the franchise defensemen for many years to come, or do you take the guy who I real think will put up 80-90 point seasons

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