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Nyquist sent back to Grand Rapids (UPD: Recalled again)

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Old
03-18-2013, 07:06 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
I was being sarcastic because of one his earlier posts. Can't do the sarcasm thingy on my phone.
Whoops sorry. Posting on here from your phone is a *****.

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03-18-2013, 08:55 PM
  #77
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A prime example of overrating another team's established NHLer who is the season's hottest rumor mill fodder.

I can't believe how quickly Smid has become overrated.
Smid is a solid defenseman and better than any defenseman on our team except kronwall

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03-18-2013, 09:05 PM
  #78
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Babcock has made it very clear he's not going to play Nyquist in a bottom six role, imo. Either they trade him for defense or make room, this is just silly.
Sabres are sellers and IMO they are lacking in talent on the wing. Wouldnt mind trading for Nyquist, even if we are going to be in the same division next year.

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03-18-2013, 09:23 PM
  #79
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I honestly think the story here (and really all season) is that Andersson is a pimp.

This guy comes out of nowhere (what was he, our third call up?) looks shaky for the first couple of games and has buckled down his game. He's big, he's always on the right side of the puck, he busts his ass, he has sense, and he's earned a spot on the PK.

He's been getting bigger and bigger minutes as Babcock trusts him more and more and there was not once in the last month where I've gotten nervous with him out there.

That's the real story, in my opinion.

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03-18-2013, 09:24 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Prime examples of the forum disease: Over-rating prospects and under-rating established NHL talent.
you would think they would have scouted, drafted and devloped at least ONE forward good enough by now to overtake one of our "established NHL talents" wouldnt you?

you would think somebody they drafted would emerge as a force in our top 9, produce effectively and make it impossible for them to be sent down, since who helm?

nobody, not one of them is better today/yet then eaves, miller, cleary, abdelkader, sammy, bert that mgmt would say "no way am I keeping them in GR, just look how dominate they're in the NHL.."

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03-18-2013, 09:42 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by SoupGuru View Post
I honestly think the story here (and really all season) is that Andersson is a pimp.

This guy comes out of nowhere (what was he, our third call up?) looks shaky for the first couple of games and has buckled down his game. He's big, he's always on the right side of the puck, he busts his ass, he has sense, and he's earned a spot on the PK.

He's been getting bigger and bigger minutes as Babcock trusts him more and more and there was not once in the last month where I've gotten nervous with him out there.

That's the real story, in my opinion.
Agree that Andersson has been an under-the-radar success story for the season to this point. I understand Gus being sent down instead of Andersson b/c of the Helm injury and needing a C, but even based on their respective play (and granted, Gus didn't have much), Andersson has looked much more like he belongs on the team right now. He has really looked better and better as time has gone on.

Gotta wonder how Emmerton has viewed Andersson's performance. CE finally has put it together out there and has played well for the most part, and then here comes Andersson and his big frame, getting it done and looking destined for a bottom 6 C spot soon. With Helm coming back later this year or next, and Sheahan on the way up, hope that Emmerton chose to rent instead of buy.

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03-18-2013, 10:14 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
you would think they would have scouted, drafted and devloped at least ONE forward good enough by now to overtake one of our "established NHL talents" wouldnt you?

you would think somebody they drafted would emerge as a force in our top 9, produce effectively and make it impossible for them to be sent down, since who helm?

nobody, not one of them is better today/yet then eaves, miller, cleary, abdelkader, sammy, bert that mgmt would say "no way am I keeping them in GR, just look how dominate they're in the NHL.."
Of course they're not cranking out top six material more often. Look at where they pick in the draft year after year. It's the price of success. Can't have your cake and eat it too.


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Originally Posted by Brick Top View Post
Agree that Andersson has been an under-the-radar success story for the season to this point. I understand Gus being sent down instead of Andersson b/c of the Helm injury and needing a C, but even based on their respective play (and granted, Gus didn't have much), Andersson has looked much more like he belongs on the team right now. He has really looked better and better as time has gone on.

Gotta wonder how Emmerton has viewed Andersson's performance. CE finally has put it together out there and has played well for the most part, and then here comes Andersson and his big frame, getting it done and looking destined for a bottom 6 C spot soon. With Helm coming back later this year or next, and Sheahan on the way up, hope that Emmerton chose to rent instead of buy.
I believe Emmerton is thinking that he has to prove he deserves a spot in the line up. If he's busy thinking this is the end of the line it will reflect in his play and that's the last thing that he would want, I'm sure.

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:22 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Yeah, our great #2 overall prospect who is nearly 24 and can't win a spot in the worst Red Wings lineup since he was born... he's worth a legit top pairing defense.
He sure is worth a legit top pairing defenseman. But Smid is not that.

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03-19-2013, 12:25 AM
  #84
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Prime example of company-line-disease... Defend whatever the company says, no matter how stupid it is....
Ah, except I don't always agree with the font office or coaches, so that's just hyperbole

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03-19-2013, 12:28 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
Prime example of overrating teams own prospect and under rating established NHL players.
Prime example of grass is always greener mentality

Smid is an alright defenseman (too often too lazy), but he's not top-pairing, and he's not worth a 23yo AHL leading scorer. He's worth Landon Ferraro, or Xavier Ouellet, with maybe a low pick thrown in. I don't mean you specifically, but Smid is being overrated very quickly around here.


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03-19-2013, 01:51 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by SoupGuru View Post
I honestly think the story here (and really all season) is that Andersson is a pimp.

This guy comes out of nowhere (what was he, our third call up?) looks shaky for the first couple of games and has buckled down his game. He's big, he's always on the right side of the puck, he busts his ass, he has sense, and he's earned a spot on the PK.

He's been getting bigger and bigger minutes as Babcock trusts him more and more and there was not once in the last month where I've gotten nervous with him out there.

That's the real story, in my opinion.
I agree.
Fisrt I loved Tatar's game, but by each game I noticed Andersson more and more.
From what I have seen so far Adresson>Tatar>Nyquist. Though this might change of course.


BTW does anyone remember how Datsyuk got the spot in the lineup? Wasn't it something that he had is his contract he could not be sent down?


Last edited by 14ari13: 03-19-2013 at 02:16 AM.
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Old
03-19-2013, 02:12 AM
  #87
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It's easier to be a grinder/third/fourth line player than it is to be a scorer. We all have big expectations for Nyquist and when he doesn't hit them in one game, he's outdone by a guy we have no expectations for, because he'e filling a role as a checker.

If our expectations of Andersson were the same as Nyquist, he's be failing miserably. I don't think it makes either player better or worse, but I think it skews who some of you think is the better player or actually succeeding more.

I really like Andersson and want him on the fourth line center over Emmerton(who is terrible), but lets not act like he's had any expectations to fill. He's done his job, which is a much easier job than Nyquist's.

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03-19-2013, 08:22 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Forty View Post
It's easier to be a grinder/third/fourth line player than it is to be a scorer. We all have big expectations for Nyquist and when he doesn't hit them in one game, he's outdone by a guy we have no expectations for, because he'e filling a role as a checker.

If our expectations of Andersson were the same as Nyquist, he's be failing miserably. I don't think it makes either player better or worse, but I think it skews who some of you think is the better player or actually succeeding more.

I really like Andersson and want him on the fourth line center over Emmerton(who is terrible), but lets not act like he's had any expectations to fill. He's done his job, which is a much easier job than Nyquist's.
Nyquist has been given no time to prove himself. Tatar did not look good his first few games but then finally adapted and turned it on.

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03-19-2013, 08:41 AM
  #89
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Nyquist has been given no time to prove himself. Tatar did not look good his first few games but then finally adapted and turned it on.
I know.

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03-19-2013, 08:55 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by GT500x View Post
Of course they're not cranking out top six material more often. Look at where they pick in the draft year after year. It's the price of success. Can't have your cake and eat it too.




I believe Emmerton is thinking that he has to prove he deserves a spot in the line up. If he's busy thinking this is the end of the line it will reflect in his play and that's the last thing that he would want, I'm sure.
I'd argue we have two guys who should be considered better than Eaves and Miller (and Emmerton) but they're buried right now. Nyquist and Tatar have shown enough in GR to have earned a promotion to 29 teams in the league, and they don't exactly have a stacked deck in front of them on the 30th.

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03-19-2013, 09:00 AM
  #91
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Tartar impressed me more than most of the players on our team. He is tenacious and loves to shoot. Nyquist is not. I think Babcock perfers Tartar but sent him down to keep him hungry. Tartar could not have been developed more perfectly imo.

Nyquist is a bit of a mixed bag. He needs to put on weight to be a nhl player. He is not as tenacious as Tartar which unfortunately compounds the lack of weight problem.

Andersson is Tenacious and has weight.


t is not surprising to see why Babcock has handled them the way he has. Look at Helm and Abdlekader. Neither can shoot but they are both tenacious and extremely aggressive on the puck. That energy is what Babcock is looking for from young players. If you lack the energy you damn well better not give up the puck and score (or at least shoot).

I would not call Nyquist trade bait yet (as with seasoning he could be the best of all three), but Tartar and Andersson look like better NHLers right now.

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03-19-2013, 09:00 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I'd argue we have two guys who should be considered better than Eaves and Miller (and Emmerton) but they're buried right now. Nyquist and Tatar have shown enough in GR to have earned a promotion to 29 teams in the league, and they don't exactly have a stacked deck in front of them on the 30th.
this is the only thing that irks me about these decisions. When we were a perennial cup contender I could understand why we do this, and why the kids would be accepting of it, but we are no longer perennial cup contenders, and these 2 kids are better than a lot of our bottom 6 we currently have.

As I mentioned in the previous thread I made, I honestly think in a head to head matchup at ES,

Tatar - Andersson - Nyquist

would outplay and spend more time in the offensive zone than

Cleary - Abdelkader - Eaves

We are in a situation where we don't have the luxury of sitting better players who may be ready now if we want to make the playoffs, so we should be playing the best line up that gives us that chance. Unless Holland's secret plan this year really is to miss the playoffs and get our best draft pick in 20 years, then I could understand it, but I don't think that is the mentality of our team and management to not try and make the playoffs.

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03-19-2013, 09:06 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I'd argue we have two guys who should be considered better than Eaves and Miller (and Emmerton) but they're buried right now. Nyquist and Tatar have shown enough in GR to have earned a promotion to 29 teams in the league, and they don't exactly have a stacked deck in front of them on the 30th.
At this point our lines should probably be:

Datsyuk Franzen Abdelkader/Eaves (sub in Tartar/Nyquist)
Zetterberg Brunner Filpulla
Tartar Andersson Nyquist (sheltered minutes, energy scoring, kid line)
Tootoo Emmerton Miller/Eaves/Abdelkader

I think having a kid line gives us some advantages but it is somewhat risky. You could spread the talent I suppose.

Datsyuk Franzen Nyquist
Zetterberg Brunner Filpulla
Tartar Andersson Eaves
Tootoo Emmerton Miller/Abdelkader

It will be curious to see what Babcock does once he is done modthe kids. In fairness I think forcing them to work their butts off can only be viewed as a positive thing. All this your destroying their confidence is ridiculous. If being kept in the AHL kills their confidence they will not survive as stars in the NHL. We do not need any streaker scorers. Careers (and cups) are built on consistency, Babs knows this.


Last edited by Winger98: 03-19-2013 at 09:41 AM. Reason: obscenity filter
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03-19-2013, 09:29 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Tartar impressed me more than most of the players on our team. He is tenacious and loves to shoot. Nyquist is not. I think Babcock perfers Tartar but sent him down to keep him hungry. Tartar could not have been developed more perfectly imo.

Nyquist is a bit of a mixed bag. He needs to put on weight to be a nhl player. He is not as tenacious as Tartar which unfortunately compounds the lack of weight problem.

Andersson is Tenacious and has weight.


t is not surprising to see why Babcock has handled them the way he has. Look at Helm and Abdlekader. Neither can shoot but they are both tenacious and extremely aggressive on the puck. That energy is what Babcock is looking for from young players. If you lack the energy you damn well better not give up the puck and score (or at least shoot).

I would not call Nyquist trade bait yet (as with seasoning he could be the best of all three), but Tartar and Andersson look like better NHLers right now.
It's a myth that he needs to put on weight to be an NHL player.

There are many guys in the NHL with a similar build or weight as Nyquist who do just fine.

What he needs is a fair shot.

Stop with the weight thing people, he weighs more than Seguin for crying out loud and is two inches shorter.

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03-19-2013, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
At this point our lines should probably be:

Datsyuk Franzen Abdelkader/Eaves (sub in Tartar/Nyquist)
Zetterberg Brunner Filpulla
Tartar Andersson Nyquist (sheltered minutes, energy scoring, kid line)
Tootoo Emmerton Miller/Eaves/Abdelkader

I think having a kid line gives us some advantages but it is somewhat risky. You could spread the talent I suppose.

Datsyuk Franzen Nyquist
Zetterberg Brunner Filpulla
Tartar Andersson Eaves
Tootoo Emmerton Miller/Abdelkader

It will be curious to see what Babcock does once he is done mod the kids. In fairness I think forcing them to work their butts off can only be viewed as a positive thing. All this your destroying their confidence is ridiculous. If being kept in the AHL kills their confidence they will not survive as stars in the NHL. We do not need any streaker scorers. Careers (and cups) are built on consistency, Babs knows this.
This team will never win a Cup with Abdelkater on the second line.

He's barely a fourth line player.


Last edited by Winger98: 03-19-2013 at 09:41 AM.
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03-19-2013, 09:33 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Tartar impressed me more than most of the players on our team. He is tenacious and loves to shoot. Nyquist is not. I think Babcock perfers Tartar but sent him down to keep him hungry. Tartar could not have been developed more perfectly imo.

Nyquist is a bit of a mixed bag. He needs to put on weight to be a nhl player. He is not as tenacious as Tartar which unfortunately compounds the lack of weight problem.

Andersson is Tenacious and has weight.


t is not surprising to see why Babcock has handled them the way he has. Look at Helm and Abdlekader. Neither can shoot but they are both tenacious and extremely aggressive on the puck. That energy is what Babcock is looking for from young players. If you lack the energy you damn well better not give up the puck and score (or at least shoot).

I would not call Nyquist trade bait yet (as with seasoning he could be the best of all three), but Tartar and Andersson look like better NHLers right now.
Just wanted to point out its Tatar not Tartar. For some reason it really bothers me

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03-19-2013, 09:40 AM
  #97
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Wonder if Nyquist or Tatar get called back up with Helm having a minor set back....

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index...._has_mino.html

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03-19-2013, 09:45 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
this is the only thing that irks me about these decisions. When we were a perennial cup contender I could understand why we do this, and why the kids would be accepting of it, but we are no longer perennial cup contenders, and these 2 kids are better than a lot of our bottom 6 we currently have.

As I mentioned in the previous thread I made, I honestly think in a head to head matchup at ES,

Tatar - Andersson - Nyquist

would outplay and spend more time in the offensive zone than

Cleary - Abdelkader - Eaves

We are in a situation where we don't have the luxury of sitting better players who may be ready now if we want to make the playoffs, so we should be playing the best line up that gives us that chance. Unless Holland's secret plan this year really is to miss the playoffs and get our best draft pick in 20 years, then I could understand it, but I don't think that is the mentality of our team and management to not try and make the playoffs.
I'm not a huge fan of kid lines, but I agree about not being in a position to sit better players. Also, rookies generally have a rough transition year or two, and it doesn't really matter what age they are brought in at. Brunner's scoring has dipped quite a bit lately, and it's probably because he's a rookie and it's a new league/schedule/etc. get the kids up now, they're ready for it, and get through those growing pains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
At this point our lines should probably be:

Datsyuk Franzen Abdelkader/Eaves (sub in Tartar/Nyquist)
Zetterberg Brunner Filpulla
Tartar Andersson Nyquist (sheltered minutes, energy scoring, kid line)
Tootoo Emmerton Miller/Eaves/Abdelkader

I think having a kid line gives us some advantages but it is somewhat risky. You could spread the talent I suppose.

Datsyuk Franzen Nyquist
Zetterberg Brunner Filpulla
Tartar Andersson Eaves
Tootoo Emmerton Miller/Abdelkader

It will be curious to see what Babcock does once he is done modthe kids. In fairness I think forcing them to work their butts off can only be viewed as a positive thing. All this your destroying their confidence is ridiculous. If being kept in the AHL kills their confidence they will not survive as stars in the NHL. We do not need any streaker scorers. Careers (and cups) are built on consistency, Babs knows this.
I'm a fan of spreading the kids around. I think the jump to the NHL is bigger than we give it credit at times, and having the kids able to go out there with two vets next to them is a big thing for me. We don't have to limit their ice time as much, they're out there with guys they can learn from (and carry them a bit), and we can worry less about match-ups.

I was really hoping to see the kids sprinkled in as the Wings returned to health. Oh well.

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03-19-2013, 09:58 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Forty View Post
It's a myth that he needs to put on weight to be an NHL player.

There are many guys in the NHL with a similar build or weight as Nyquist who do just fine.

What he needs is a fair shot.

Stop with the weight thing people, he weighs more than Seguin for crying out loud and is two inches shorter.
I think it's fair to say that Nyquist could use more strength, but he's never been a guy who will overpower in board battles and I'm not sure he ever will be.

What's a little frustrating is I seem to recall Datsyuk being pretty weak as a rookie during the dead puck era, but that didn't seem to be a problem to anyone because he could make plays. Hell, he was even on the fourth line. Didn't seem to ruin him...

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03-19-2013, 10:08 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
I think it's fair to say that Nyquist could use more strength, but he's never been a guy who will overpower in board battles and I'm not sure he ever will be.

What's a little frustrating is I seem to recall Datsyuk being pretty weak as a rookie during the dead puck era, but that didn't seem to be a problem to anyone because he could make plays. Hell, he was even on the fourth line. Didn't seem to ruin him...
Well Datsyuk's skill was on another level - Hull said he was the smartest player he'd ever played with... and he was a rookie. Nyquist is a smart crafty player who isn't gonna blow you away when he's playing on the third line and accustoming to the NHL.

Tatar, Smith, Lashoff, Andersson and Mrazek all came up to Detroit and proved they belonged or are close to belonging. The difference between them and Nyquist is that they were given an extended opportunity in a situation which suits them best..

Nyquist is brought up for only a few games and put in a situation his game isn't suited for.

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