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Who was the first goalie to be recognized for his pucking moving

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:48 PM
  #1
Roomtemperature
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Who was the first goalie to be recognized for his pucking moving

I know of Hextall but there has to be one before that because there always is.

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03-17-2013, 08:53 PM
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Habsfan18
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Not sure if he would classify as the first, but Jacques Plante was known to roam outside of his crease and occasionally handle the puck.

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03-17-2013, 09:04 PM
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Killion
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Jacques Plante

... is credited with being the first goaltender to actively "wander from his net" and play the puck, then refining it as his career progressed through the 50's & 60's, into the 70's. Story goes that while playing prior to joining the Habs, he had some Defencemen who were challenged when it came to skating. One guy could barely skate backwards, one guy couldnt turn left, another couldnt turn right. So he just started skating out & helped them by playing the puck, stopping it behind the net on shoot arounds which he innovated as well, ameliorating the risks. It stuck, and when he first started playing for the Canadiens, his wandering ways surely did freak out the Coaching fraternity, players & spectators. Previously, Goalies sticking close to the crease, short passes out, redirects & deflections only... not unlike some of Haseks unorthodox histrionics of several generations later I shouldnt think.

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03-17-2013, 09:47 PM
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Canadiens1958
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Hugh Lehman

Hugh Lehman, PCHA, Vancouver Millionaires.

Jacques Plante was the first to do it strategically to counter the dump and chase.

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03-17-2013, 10:07 PM
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Rob Scuderi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Hugh Lehman, PCHA, Vancouver Millionaires.

Jacques Plante was the first to do it strategically to counter the dump and chase.
Not sure where this was said about Chuck Rayner, but it was from Gordie Howe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordie Howe
When you threw it in the corner, he would just go out and get the puck. He really forced us to change the way we came into the zone. No one other than Jacques Plante later on was doing that.

Rayner scored a goal during a game with teams with the armed forces and had a near-miss against Toronto in the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends of Hockey
A superb skater, it was not unusual to see Rayner carrying the puck down the ice. "(Eddie Shore in Springfield) always told me you have to have balance on your skates and you would just find yourself moving out to get the puck." Although his dream was to be the first goalkeeper to score a goal in the NHL, he did not achieve his dream - but it certainly wasn’t through a lack of effort. "I got to the blueline against Toronto one night. They had pulled Broda for an extra attacker late in the game. I stopped the puck and shot it down the ice. It bounced off the boards and suddenly, it started going straight for the empty net. Well, you could have heard a pin drop in Madison Square Garden, the people were so quiet. But at the last moment, it swerved and missed going in by just a couple of inches," Rayner reminisced. He did score against an opposing goaltender while playing during the war. "I was on a Navy team during World War II. We were playing an Army team in Vancouver. It was a rough game and at one point, the penalty boxes were full. Bill Carse, who had played for the Chicago Black Hawks, led a rush into our zone. Carse had a terrific shot and he let one go. The damn puck hit me in the chest and bounced way out. I looked up and couldn’t see anything but that puck and Art Jones, the goaltender, at the other end. So I started (skating) and I got going so fast, I couldn’t stop. I thought, ‘The hell with it. I must as well keep going.’ Everybody was so stunned they didn’t know what was happening. I didn’t even bother to deke. I got to the other end, let one go about an inch off the ice and she went in." It wasn’t until Jacques Plante starred with Montreal a decade later that other goalkeepers exhibited strong puckhandling and playmaking skills.

During the late 1940s, the New York Rangers used Rayner on the point during powerplays late in a handful of games. "That was Frank (Boucher’s) idea all the way. I used to do a lot of skating and shooting in practice, so he decided to try it in a game. I’d only come out half way up the blueline. It only happened four of five times," laughed Rayner.
http://www.hhof.com/htmlSpotlight/sp...ep197302.shtml


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03-18-2013, 01:42 AM
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Big Phil
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Plante popularized it to an extent. Tretiak never handled the puck which was strange that the Soviets never implemented this. I can't think of a goalie in the 1970s who was a great puckhandler who was actually dangerous at doing it until the 1980s. Hextall comes to mind. Followed by someone like Belfour (although I remember him getting caught all the time with it) and then Brodeur has been like a 3rd defenseman out there for 20 years. It's a lost art.

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03-18-2013, 01:55 AM
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Yeah...

In the 80s and 90s it was Hextall and Fuhr, and then the generation of Belfour/Brodeur/Osgood, with Turco a few years later.

Dipietro was (is?) pretty good with the puck also.

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03-18-2013, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Yeah... Dipietro was (is?) pretty good with the puck also.
Who, Ricky? The $67.75 Million Dollar Man who's appeared in all of 50 of the Islanders last 345 Games since 08-9? You telling me he's got Datsyukian potentialities?...

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03-18-2013, 02:42 AM
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Morgoth Bauglir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... is credited with being the first goaltender to actively "wander from his net" and play the puck, then refining it as his career progressed through the 50's & 60's, into the 70's. Story goes that while playing prior to joining the Habs, he had some Defencemen who were challenged when it came to skating. One guy could barely skate backwards, one guy couldnt turn left, another couldnt turn right. So he just started skating out & helped them by playing the puck, stopping it behind the net on shoot arounds which he innovated as well, ameliorating the risks. It stuck, and when he first started playing for the Canadiens, his wandering ways surely did freak out the Coaching fraternity, players & spectators. Previously, Goalies sticking close to the crease, short passes out, redirects & deflections only... not unlike some of Haseks unorthodox histrionics of several generations later I shouldnt think.
Yeah, Plante was the first one that came to mind.

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03-18-2013, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
Rayner scored a goal during a game with teams with the armed forces and had a near-miss against Toronto in the NHL.
http://www.hhof.com/htmlSpotlight/sp...ep197302.shtml
great story

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03-18-2013, 03:01 AM
  #11
Killion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Yeah, Plante was the first one that came to mind.
Yes, though one would have to just naturally assume he wasnt the first to wander a bit, as its just human nature if playing goal to be inclined to do so. C58 above there cites' Hugh "Old Eagle Eyes" Lehman, born in the 1880's in Pembroke Ontario, who was considered one of the Greatest of his Epoch, Urban Legend having it that in a game in Ontario or possibly BC while playing in the old PCHA he actually skated the full length of the ice & scored a goal. There arent any reports in contemporaneous Vancouver newspapers to confirm it, and Im not even sure if it was legal even back then. Possibly so though... I rather fancy the image of some wiry, balled up angry old coot in cricket pads & cheesecutters so mad at the planet that he'd go psycho & charge the other end like that.... in the early days, the position was played obviously in a different manner, more stick work required, so sure, guys like Lehman mustve been pretty proficient that way. But Plante, he was the first to really step out & use it tactically in the more modern game.


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03-18-2013, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Who, Ricky? The $67.75 Million Dollar Man who's appeared in all of 50 of the Islanders last 345 Games since 08-9? You telling me he's got Datsyukian potentialities?...
I don't know about Datsyukian, but he is pretty darn good at handling the puck - or was when he was healthy, anyway.

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03-18-2013, 04:32 AM
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Yeah Dipietro was a good puck-handler. Gary Smith and Ed Giacomin should be mentioned as well.

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03-18-2013, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
I don't know about Datsyukian, but he is pretty darn good at handling the puck - or was when he was healthy, anyway.
Not sure what being over paid has to do with his puck handling skills either.

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03-19-2013, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Litework View Post
Gary Smith and Ed Giacomin should be mentioned as well.
These were the two that stood out from my youth. I have a videotape of a Feb. 1970 Seals at Leafs game in which Smitty lugs the puck past center ice -he was the impetus for the rule that now prohibits goalers from venturing out that far.

Out for a stroll...

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03-19-2013, 12:06 PM
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I don't know if he still appears on the HNIC opening montage, but although he only played in five games for Toronto, Gary Smith appears in a Leafs sweater stickhandling up the ice. The rule preventing goalies from crossing the center red line is traditionally called the "Gary Smith rule".

If we're talking first, though, I agree with the above that it's Hugh Lehman.

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03-19-2013, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SealsFan View Post
These were the two that stood out from my youth. I have a videotape of a Feb. 1970 Seals at Leafs game in which Smitty lugs the puck past center ice -he was the impetus for the rule that now prohibits goalers from venturing out that far.

Out for a stroll...
I have vivid memories of Giacomin making the MSG crowd gasp when he'd go out and wander the defensive zone to retrieve or pass the puck.

The other player from that era who comes to mind is Gerry Cheevers. He was also prone to wandering and remember, he played some left wing with the old St. Michaels Majors in the Ontario Junior League.

Here's an article from THN on the subject:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...g-goalies.html

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03-19-2013, 04:50 PM
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Killion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SealsFan View Post
These were the two that stood out from my youth. I have a videotape of a Feb. 1970 Seals at Leafs game in which Smitty lugs the puck past center ice -he was the impetus for the rule that now prohibits goalers from venturing out that far.
Boy, what a character that guy was. Came up through St.Mikes in Toronto, then when they shutdown their hockey program in the early 60's, transferred over to Neil McNeil along with most of the St.Mikes Juniors , another private school which for awhile had a team called the Maroons, ending his Junior career with the Toronto Marlboro's.

In addition to skating past centre ice (game against Montreal, where JC Tremblay nailed him at the blue line amongst other episodes) Smitty also one time punted the puck with his pad at Maple Leaf Gardens, very nearly causing major damage to the overhead scoreclock... then when playing in Vancouver, would bizarrely sometimes just leave the arena after a game stopping briefly to grab his street clothes out of the dressing room but not changing, getting behind the wheel of his car in skates, pads, the whole 9 yards, driving home like that. After his playing days, got involved in thoroughbred racing out here in Vancouver. Strange Duck.

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03-19-2013, 05:43 PM
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If we're talking first, though, I agree with the above that it's Hugh Lehman.
I have to think we look even earlier... right to the beginnings of organized hockey... Tom Paton was note-worthy for his ability to whip the puck up ice after it was knocked down

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03-19-2013, 11:50 PM
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Mike Farkas
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I think we should be careful going too far back because it's becoming more and more clear that there was this goaltender/third (fourth?) defenseman hybrid deal going on...even with Lehman who is noted in newspaper reports to challenge plays out at the boards with some regularity.

There are goalies from the generation before that who would carry the puck down the ice and score or come close. Until goaltending evolved into what we know it as today (likely in the Vezina/Lehman etc. area), there's probably a number of mildly obscure answers to be had.

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03-20-2013, 12:43 AM
  #21
Killion
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Until goaltending evolved into what we know it as today (likely in the Vezina/Lehman etc. area), there's probably a number of mildly obscure answers to be had.
Ya, pretty much. In so far as Im concerned, in the "Modern Era" of post WW2, the credit goes to Plante. Was he the first? No. Did Carl Perkins or Elvis invent Rock n' Roll? No. Youve gotta go back to the Mississippi Delta and beyond, and even then you'll never really discover where it all began. Very little new under the Sun. Doesnt take much imagination knowing what we do know about the game in its infancy to understand that the position was played totally hybrid, the use of the stick & actual engagement in the play in front of them by goaltenders far more extensive than what it is today, has been since the late teens.

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