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2013 Draft Discussion (Mar. 29 article, post #976)

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:37 AM
  #651
BobbyClarkeFan16
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Originally Posted by Codith View Post
Well depending on who you talk to he is most scouts top pick for forward. Mackinnon plays like Crosby does, that drive you see him bring. He just doesn't have the playmaking skills that sets Crosby apart. Drouins hockey IQ is just off the charts, Mac is up there too but just not on the same level.

If a team wants a forward over D then Drouin I can see being #1

But I think Jones is one of those franchise Defense that most teams need more so then a #1 forward. That's why I think Jones has the advantage.

Like with the Flyers, do you draft a guy who is going to be the franchise defensemen for many years to come, or do you take the guy who I real think will put up 80-90 point seasons
It all depends. If you draft a forward who can put up 80 - 90 point seasons, you can move a forward from the depth that the Flyers have and acquire a legitimate top pairing defenseman. That option is always available, especially for a franchise that has issues developing defensemen. If you can draft a Barkov, Mackinnon or Drouin and move a guy like Couturier to get that elusive defenseman this club needs, then I think it's something they'll probably consider.

EDIT: Of note, I'm not advocating moving Couturier, I'm just saying that if it comes down to one of the top forwards or one of the top defensemen in the draft are available, it won't surprise me if the Flyers take the forward and then move a forward off the roster for a defenseman.

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03-19-2013, 10:48 AM
  #652
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
It all depends. If you draft a forward who can put up 80 - 90 point seasons, you can move a forward from the depth that the Flyers have and acquire a legitimate top pairing defenseman.
I'm not necessarily sure this the case in the current NHL. Which young, legitimate top pairing defenseman do you think could reasonably be acquired for Coots or B. Schenn. I'm not even sure we could get a Yandle or Buff without adding considerably to either.

Valuewise, we may believe that our young Cs could net us a top D if we so desired, but I frankly am not seeing the options.

If we drafted a McKinnon, we'd likely be deciding whether to trade one of those guys for 75 cents on the dollar or moving them to a wing.

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03-19-2013, 11:15 AM
  #653
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I'm not necessarily sure this the case in the current NHL. Which young, legitimate top pairing defenseman do you think could reasonably be acquired for Coots or B. Schenn. I'm not even sure we could get a Yandle or Buff without adding considerably to either.

Valuewise, we may believe that our young Cs could net us a top D if we so desired, but I frankly am not seeing the options.

If we drafted a McKinnon, we'd likely be deciding whether to trade one of those guys for 75 cents on the dollar or moving them to a wing.
Simmonds could probably net you a very good defensemen. Read could probably get a good prospect or if adding a plus, a decent high cap guy. I agree that selling B. Schenn or Couturier now would likely mean getting pennies on the dollar.

If the Flyers are picking top 5, you draft the BPA regardless of position. The forwards available there could be better than anything the Flyers have and would be stupid to pass on one for the sake of filling a current need.

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03-19-2013, 11:33 AM
  #654
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Draft the best player available. Don't reach for a D-man if we can't get Jones.

Button claims there are 5 elite level talents in this draft (Jones, Drouin, Mackinnon, Barkov, Nickushkin). If the Flyers are top 5, which looks likely, and Jones is gone then they should should draft one of those guys. It gives them a ton of flexibility to trade for a defenseman. I have a lot of faith that the Flyers won't reach for a D-man because it's certainly not in their nature. I just don't want to hear the griping from Flyers fans that they picked another center.

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03-19-2013, 11:41 AM
  #655
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Even if the Flyers don't draft one they are already over loaded at center. They're already in a position to move one or two of them. They have 4 guys that project as their 2nd or 3rd line center. Drafting a center likely adds another piece to a team that is already in a position to trade one.

I love Barkov, Mackinnon, and Drouin. If we can't get Jones I don't see any reason why we shouldn't draft one of these guys.

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03-19-2013, 11:49 AM
  #656
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
If all that is true, why isn't he the consensus #1, or even the consensus top forward?

Sincere question, what does MacKinnon have over Drouin, and what does Drouin have over MacKinnon?
Being from Halifax and watching them...here is my take.
MacKinnon was the concensus #1 ranked player for Quebec draft
Halifax made trades to get him...then also to get Drouin at #2
(side note-Halifax got Frucale #11. This is a draft the Flyers need!!! )
Then at age 16 Mackinnon was all the talk and didn't disappoint scoring at 1.34 PPG as a 16 year old and had over half the year without Drouin(under a PPG) around. Then Halifax went on unexpected playoff run creating more buzz for both.

Mackinnon has always been considered the better of the 2 and until recently, it wasn't much in doubt. I think it has more to do with Drouin just putting up crazy #'s this year and of course the World Jr's.

Mackinnon has speed that Drouin can't touch. And even though it seems like they are listed as similar height and weight, Mackinnon hits WAY more. And with his better speed, he seperates the player from puck with those hits. Whereas Drouin is more likely to go to that same player, and steal the puck from him by using his stickhandling ability. I compare Mac to Crosby for style of play. He is certainly way stronger than Drouin.

I think the big thing is overexposure for Mac. People have been talking about him since Bantam as the "next great player". I just think that this year, Drouin's crazy point totals has brought him WAY up into the discussion, rather than MacK slipping...if that makes sense.

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03-19-2013, 11:57 AM
  #657
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
I think the big thing is overexposure for Mac. People have been talking about him since Bantam as the "next great player". I just think that this year, Drouin's crazy point totals has brought him WAY up into the discussion, rather than MacK slipping...if that makes sense.
I think this is a big part of it. McK has been over-hyped for a long, long time (akin to what Connor McDavid is getting this year), so he really only had one direction to go: down. Has McKinnon proven to be worse than expected? I don't think so, but the hype train just arrived a little too early.

Both Drouin and McKinnon would go number 1 in many, many drafts over the last 20 or so years, so it's just one of those years where the talent pool is so deep.

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03-19-2013, 11:58 AM
  #658
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Maybe what the Flyers do is go to teams 6-12 and let them know that if there is a player there that they want...the Flyers will look to trade down. Who knows, they could drop to #8...then say # 11...and still get the guy they really want. Just an example but if they ar 100% wanting a d-man...and the next 3 are probably forwards...see what you can get. Teams will overvalue some players, and maybe you can exploit a mistake. You don't think of a 2nd rounder as much to move in the draft, yet 2nd rounders could end up being traded for Grossmann like players later on.

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03-19-2013, 12:00 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I think this is a big part of it. McK has been over-hyped for a long, long time (akin to what Connor McDavid is getting this year), so he really only had one direction to go: down. Has McKinnon proven to be worse than expected? I don't think so, but the hype train just arrived a little too early.

Both Drouin and McKinnon would go number 1 in many, many drafts over the last 20 or so years, so it's just one of those years where the talent pool is so deep.
100% agree. Mackinnon PPG went from 1.34 to 1.70 yet has dropped in rankings.

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03-19-2013, 12:04 PM
  #660
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
100% agree. Mackinnon PPG went from 1.34 to 1.70 yet has dropped in rankings.
He's becoming the Sean Couturier of this draft, the only difference being Couturier fell ill and Mackinnon is just being picked apart by scouts.

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03-19-2013, 12:11 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
He's becoming the Sean Couturier of this draft, the only difference being Couturier fell ill and Mackinnon is just being picked apart by scouts.
I think in the end Mackinnon goes first overall. I can actually see Seth Jones dropping to 3. Bad teams need to sell tickets and offensive players like Mackinnin and Drouin do that.

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03-19-2013, 12:15 PM
  #662
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If you forced me to make claims I would say that MacKinnon is a better two-way forward due to skating is more well-rounded, while Drouin is flashier (that's not to say that MacK is not).

I would agree with the claims he has been overexposed. Along comes Drouin with less exposure making flashy plays and oozing hockey IQ and vision-- and suddenly he's slightly more beloved.

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:24 PM
  #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
Being from Halifax and watching them...here is my take.
MacKinnon was the concensus #1 ranked player for Quebec draft
Halifax made trades to get him...then also to get Drouin at #2
(side note-Halifax got Frucale #11. This is a draft the Flyers need!!! )
Then at age 16 Mackinnon was all the talk and didn't disappoint scoring at 1.34 PPG as a 16 year old and had over half the year without Drouin(under a PPG) around. Then Halifax went on unexpected playoff run creating more buzz for both.

Mackinnon has always been considered the better of the 2 and until recently, it wasn't much in doubt. I think it has more to do with Drouin just putting up crazy #'s this year and of course the World Jr's.

Mackinnon has speed that Drouin can't touch. And even though it seems like they are listed as similar height and weight, Mackinnon hits WAY more. And with his better speed, he seperates the player from puck with those hits. Whereas Drouin is more likely to go to that same player, and steal the puck from him by using his stickhandling ability. I compare Mac to Crosby for style of play. He is certainly way stronger than Drouin.

I think the big thing is overexposure for Mac. People have been talking about him since Bantam as the "next great player". I just think that this year, Drouin's crazy point totals has brought him WAY up into the discussion, rather than MacK slipping...if that makes sense.
This is probably going to seem odd, but I think I'd rather have the player that hits way less, provided he isn't a soft mush. You can have guys that hit that aren't your top players. I'm just biased I think because I saw how banged up Richards has gotten, and how Utley (not hitting but plays ultra hard for baseball) has shortened an otherwise likely hall of fame career. As long as the player isn't soft, I have no problem with a lack of hitting if you're a top player.

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03-19-2013, 12:26 PM
  #664
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I would like Jones, but I will take any of Jones, Mackinnon, or Drouin and be very pleased with our selection.

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03-19-2013, 12:42 PM
  #665
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I think a few of you have hit it on the head on how you would compare these guys.

Mac is like Crosby in terms of how he uses his body and speed. Not to mention his shot is unreal. Drouin to me is a combination of guys. He has Is like a step below Crosbys vision and hockey IQ, but above that of Girouxs. His hands are like Kane's, and he plays like if Kane and Giroux has a baby, he would be the love child product lol.

In the final minute of a game, you want Mackinnon on the ice, he has that element to him, just like Crosby does.

The truth is, whether it Mackinnon or Drouin, your going to win lol, you don't lose out either way.

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03-19-2013, 12:43 PM
  #666
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If we get Mac, then we better ****ing go for defense for the rest of the 1st round (if we get other 1sts) and the 2nd round.

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03-19-2013, 12:47 PM
  #667
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Also I would like to add, over the last 15 years of watching the Q here in Halifax. In terms of players who have impressed me the most, I'd rank them as follows in a top3


1- Crosby
2- Drouin
3- Giroux

Mackinnon would be #4 followed by one of Radulov/Nagy/Richards/Vinny/Voracek

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03-19-2013, 12:49 PM
  #668
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
If we get Mac, then we better ****ing go for defense for the rest of the 1st round (if we get other 1sts) and the 2nd round.
Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Schenn - McGinn
Gagne - Couturier - Talbot
Rinaldo - MacKinnon - Zolnierczyk
Wellwood - Briere - Cousins
xxxxxxx - Read - xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx - Laughton - xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx - Holmstrom - xxxxxxx


We must have all of the centers!!!

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03-19-2013, 12:53 PM
  #669
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If we et Mac, he will be on the wing with Giroux, I can almost guarantee that. Same if he went to Florida, he would be on the wing with Huberdeau

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03-19-2013, 12:55 PM
  #670
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Originally Posted by Codith View Post
If we et Mac, he will be on the wing with Giroux, I can almost guarantee that. Same if he went to Florida, he would be on the wing with Huberdeau
Huberdeau is on the wing right now, he's being centered by Shore.

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03-19-2013, 01:03 PM
  #671
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If we et Mac, he will be on the wing with Giroux, I can almost guarantee that. Same if he went to Florida, he would be on the wing with Huberdeau
I'd think that Mac or Drouin would end up on G's wing.

Mac-G-Voracek
Drouin-G-Voracek

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03-19-2013, 01:06 PM
  #672
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I'd think that Mac or Drouin would end up on G's wing.

Mac-G-Voracek
Drouin-G-Voracek
That second line has great potential to be both extraordinary and infuriating.

Pass Pass Pass Dangle Pass Dangle Pass Dangle, etc.

(Not that it's a bad problem to have, of course. But based on what I've read here, it seems MacKinnon is perhaps the better fit, assuming he can be moved to wing.)

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03-19-2013, 01:09 PM
  #673
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I don't like the idea of having 3 playmakers on the same line. I feel like we can build a more dynamic lineup by having G on one line, and Drouin on the other. Drouin with Read I think would be amazing, but also give us a legit threat for a second line, and take off the pressure of the 1st.

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Drouin-Schenn-Read


Giroux and Jake work great together, I think Read needs that dynamic as well, Read would work wonders with Drouin.

PP you can put Drouin up with Jake/Giroux/Simmonds

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03-19-2013, 01:45 PM
  #674
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I don't like the idea of having 3 playmakers on the same line.
First World Problems.

This goes back to what Chris said... Jones, McKinnon, Drouin are the T1 prospects in this draft. They're a bit ahead of Barkov, maybe Nich, then the class of defensemen that follow.

We would be incredibly fortunately to select one of those 3.

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03-19-2013, 01:50 PM
  #675
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honestly

would be crazy happy with any of jones,big mac or drouin . would be happy with barkov,risto,nurse,zadarov. if we land a huge fish jones. then our d is set and we can go forward round 2. if we get mac or drouin, then that means we have 32 or 33 in round 2. and if we want to add a good dman to the mix, i would trade round 2 and whatever else move into mid 20s and snag hagg.

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