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Nyquist sent back to Grand Rapids (UPD: Recalled again)

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:17 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
Nyquist is brought up for only a few games and put in a situation his game isn't suited for.
There's kind of a ridiculousness to it, because Nyquist right now is probably suited to something similar to what Tatar did: a stint on the 3rd line where he can be the guy who drives the offense for the line.

But apparently Holland is really against the idea of putting the skilled prospects on the lower lines. so Nyquist gets to develop his NHL game in the AHL? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

It goes:

Holland: I want you to use these guys (Tatar and Nyquist) on the top 2 lines and the power play or I'll put them back in the AHL.

Babcock: I'm not using them on the top 2 lines.

Holland: Fine, I'll send them back to the AHL. But play them NEXT time.

Babcock: Whatever.

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03-19-2013, 10:29 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Animus View Post
Wonder if Nyquist or Tatar get called back up with Helm having a minor set back....

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index...._has_mino.html
Don't have to call anybody, we have 12 healthy forwards, same roster as we used against Vancouver.

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03-19-2013, 11:15 AM
  #103
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Don't have to call anybody, we have 12 healthy forwards, same roster as we used against Vancouver.
Griffins are playing tonight so it would wait. I would think they want at least 13 for a game day.

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03-19-2013, 11:27 AM
  #104
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Right now, Bertuzzi, Helm and Sammy are injured.

And even with all those injuries, we had to waive Mursak and we can't find room for Nyquist or Tatar.

That's how ****ing bad the Red Wings' "development" system (AKA veteran entitlement system) has become.

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03-19-2013, 12:19 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Right now, Bertuzzi, Helm and Sammy are injured.

And even with all those injuries, we had to waive Mursak and we can't find room for Nyquist or Tatar.

That's how ****ing bad the Red Wings' "development" system (AKA veteran entitlement system) has become.
To make thing worse, it's likely that no one is going anywhere after this year besides White and Miller (who I'd actually like to see stick around).

Every other FA and RFA will be re-signed and will receive raises, except for maybe Cleary. He'll probably get a 2 year extension with the same salary (which is ridiculous).

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03-19-2013, 12:24 PM
  #106
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To make thing worse, it's likely that no one is going anywhere after this year besides White and Miller (who I'd actually like to see stick around).

Every other FA and RFA will be re-signed and will receive raises, except for maybe Cleary. He'll probably get a 2 year extension with the same salary (which is ridiculous).
I'm going to wait to be angry about bad contracts when they're actually signed. I'm still hoping to see some of the prospects up full time next year.

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03-19-2013, 12:27 PM
  #107
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To make thing worse, it's likely that no one is going anywhere after this year besides White and Miller (who I'd actually like to see stick around).

Every other FA and RFA will be re-signed and will receive raises, except for maybe Cleary. He'll probably get a 2 year extension with the same salary (which is ridiculous).
White is gone. He'll leave whether we want him or not.
Miller -- I would keep, if we didn't already have a giant backlog of forwards.
Cleary - I'm going to have faith that they let him walk
Flip -- Not sure they can afford to let him leave. If he goes, they need to replace him.
Brunner - Assuming he stays

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03-19-2013, 12:31 PM
  #108
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I'm going to wait to be angry about bad contracts when they're actually signed. I'm still hoping to see some of the prospects up full time next year.
I didn't say they'd be bad contracts, but they're all getting raises, that's a certainty (other than Cleary).

I'll admit though, I am little worried about what some of these guys are going to get. Smith for example, we've heard about his potential for a while but it really hasn't been showcased much this year.

...and Brunner, the guy has disappeared lately. But I guess we'll see how he does the rest of the season. Maybe thoughts of Leino are still haunting me.

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03-19-2013, 12:33 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
White is gone. He'll leave whether we want him or not.
Miller -- I would keep, if we didn't already have a giant backlog of forwards.
Cleary - I'm going to have faith that they let him walk
Flip -- Not sure they can afford to let him leave. If he goes, they need to replace him.
Brunner - Assuming he stays
I honestly think everyone except White and Miller will be re-signed, if no one is dealt at the deadline.

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03-19-2013, 12:36 PM
  #110
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I'm going to wait to be angry about bad contracts when they're actually signed. I'm still hoping to see some of the prospects up full time next year.
This, this, a thousand times this.

The difference between pessimism and optimism, with a dash of realism thrown in for good measure.

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03-19-2013, 12:50 PM
  #111
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It's kind of that Colaiacovo is already signed for next season to replace White. Tatar replaces Cleary, Nyquist replaces Filppula and Andersson replaces Miller.

1. Zetterberg --> Zetterberg
2. Datsyuk --> Datsyuk
3. Franzen --> Franzen
4. Filppula --> Nyquist (Filppula walks for Free agency)
5. Cleary --> Tatar
6. Brunner --> Brunner
7. Helm --> Helm
8. Sammy --> Sammy
9. Bertuzzi --> Bertuzzi (if not healthy, then go UFA)
10. Abdelkader --> Abdelkader
11. Miller --> Andersson
12. Tootoo --> Tootoo
13. Emmerton --> Emmerton
14. Eaves --> Eaves
-------------------
15. Tatar --> Ferraro
16. Nyquist --> Järnkrok
17. Andersson --> Sheahan

1. Kronwall --> Kronwall
2. Ericsson --> Ericsson
3. Quincey --> Quincey
4. Smith --> Smith
5. Kindl --> Kindl
6. White --> Colaiacovo
7. Lashoff --> Lashoff
-------------------
8. Colaiacovo --> Sproul
9. Huskins --> Ouellet

1. Howard --> Howard
2. Gustavsson --> Gustavsson
-------------------
3. Mrazek --> Mrazek

If we get some big fish forward from free agency, and Bertuzzi returns, then buy Patrick Eaves out. Or in general, if we get better UFA players, shed those lower end over 30's guys out.


Last edited by Henkka: 03-19-2013 at 01:00 PM.
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03-19-2013, 02:10 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Animus View Post
Wonder if Nyquist or Tatar get called back up with Helm having a minor set back....

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index...._has_mino.html
When Holland sent Nyquist back down he said they'd probably call him back up if Helm wasn't ready. So there's a good chance it'll happen.

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03-19-2013, 02:57 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
It's kind of that Colaiacovo is already signed for next season to replace White. Tatar replaces Cleary, Nyquist replaces Filppula and Andersson replaces Miller.

1. Zetterberg --> Zetterberg
2. Datsyuk --> Datsyuk
3. Franzen --> Franzen
4. Filppula --> Nyquist (Filppula walks for Free agency)
5. Cleary --> Tatar
6. Brunner --> Brunner
7. Helm --> Helm
8. Sammy --> Sammy
9. Bertuzzi --> Bertuzzi (if not healthy, then go UFA)
10. Abdelkader --> Abdelkader
11. Miller --> Andersson
12. Tootoo --> Tootoo
13. Emmerton --> Emmerton
14. Eaves --> Eaves
-------------------
15. Tatar --> Ferraro
16. Nyquist --> Järnkrok
17. Andersson --> Sheahan

1. Kronwall --> Kronwall
2. Ericsson --> Ericsson
3. Quincey --> Quincey
4. Smith --> Smith
5. Kindl --> Kindl
6. White --> Colaiacovo
7. Lashoff --> Lashoff
-------------------
8. Colaiacovo --> Sproul
9. Huskins --> Ouellet

1. Howard --> Howard
2. Gustavsson --> Gustavsson
-------------------
3. Mrazek --> Mrazek

If we get some big fish forward from free agency, and Bertuzzi returns, then buy Patrick Eaves out. Or in general, if we get better UFA players, shed those lower end over 30's guys out.
A few things.

1. CC has a rep, well deserved, for being made of glass. Gives us 6 D, as long as we keep Kindl and Smith (Kindl who some of us suspect is going to be dealt...) and then Sproul and Ouellet? Seems mighty thin and mighty inexperienced. I'm a fan of bringing up young talent, but the young talent I'm talking about has already spent some time in the AHL and proven themselves over a season or more.

2. The main reason people want to keep Filp, if they do at all, is because Datsyuk is very likely leaving after next year and there aren't a whole lot of proven NHL center talents lying around. Filppula can do that. Not nearly to the same level as Datsyuk, but he's a completely known quantity. With Getzlaf getting locked up and fewer big guys going to FA, what are the chances we can replace him? Right now he's playing wing so yeah you could get Nyquist to take his spot, but when Datsyuk leaves... Nyquist isn't a center. And expecting Jarnkrok is his likely first year in the NHL to fill those shoes... Whoa man. Whoa.

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03-19-2013, 04:18 PM
  #114
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I believe Emmerton is thinking that he has to prove he deserves a spot in the line up. If he's busy thinking this is the end of the line it will reflect in his play and that's the last thing that he would want, I'm sure.
Well, yes... it would be odd for Cory to submit his retirement paperwork to Holland just b/c Andersson has shown that he's far more likely to assume 4C duties in the future. Just pointing out that it's a credit to him for showing that he can play in this league in the right situation, but that Andersson's emergence has probably meant that Emmerton's place will be with a different team soon.

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I'd argue we have two guys who should be considered better than Eaves and Miller (and Emmerton) but they're buried right now. Nyquist and Tatar have shown enough in GR to have earned a promotion to 29 teams in the league, and they don't exactly have a stacked deck in front of them on the 30th.
Exactly. It's not like Gus and Tomas are knocking on the door of the 2002 Wings roster and being turned away. We have plenty of veteran depth, which is certainly helpful when injuries occur, but this of all years should have been the chance for these guys to earn a spot and then keep it. I'd say that Tatar earned his role on the 3rd line and should have been given a crack on the 2nd, while Gus didn't look good but also only had a tiny window of time to prove himself.

If Kenny and Babs couldn't get on the same page this season when it came to working in the top forward prospects... yikes. That needs to change in the future.

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03-19-2013, 04:53 PM
  #115
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Do you honestly think a year and a half is any indicator at all of what kind of hockey player someone is at the "professional" level? Playing against men and some of the most skilled players on this side of the world? One and a half seasons is enough to judge?

Okay, if you say so. Personally, I'd like to see 2+ years, but that would make some folks here absolutely riot.

They will be in the NHL right after this season of uncertainty is over. The Wings know what they have with those two, which is why they should just finish out their seasons with an AHL Championship.



Apparently, us "apologists" don't agree with you. Let them finish dominating the AHL this year, and give them a full camp and season next year. It's not that far away.
I know you are hung up on this second pro season thing but many college players, especially forwards don't take longer than one pro season to make it to the NHL, at least the higher end ones. Much of that is due to age just like with the Euro players who played professionally. There's a couple of cases on the Wings. One is Patrick Eaves who played all of 18 AHL games before joining Ottawa full-time.

The other is more obvious and a similar case to Nyquist - Justin Abdelkader. Like Nyquist, Abby destroyed the AHL during his second pro year(a point per game player) before coming to Detroit and he was never sent down again. Abdelkader got very long looks during his first pro season and it occurred during the playoffs. Nyquist has had a little time but the point is its not unheard of for the Wings to give a college guy a long look. They've done it in the past and other teams do it routinely.

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03-19-2013, 04:56 PM
  #116
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People need to understand that if you toss Flip out, he's not going to be easily replaced.

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03-19-2013, 07:02 PM
  #117
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I know you are hung up on this second pro season thing but many college players, especially forwards don't take longer than one pro season to make it to the NHL, at least the higher end ones. Much of that is due to age just like with the Euro players who played professionally. There's a couple of cases on the Wings. One is Patrick Eaves who played all of 18 AHL games before joining Ottawa full-time.
Patrick Eaves was a 29th overall pick, whereas Nyquist was 121st... sure Nyquist was a Hobey Baker finalist and led Maine in scoring all three seasons he played (and the NCAA in '09-'10), but some guys do that and can't hack the NHL. It happens. I don't have statistics on that, but it does.

As far as Eaves goes, I don't know because I didn't follow the Senators in 2006-2007, but I'd have to think that their management was a little more aggressive with their prospects than Detroit's is today. Most teams seem to be.

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The other is more obvious and a similar case to Nyquist - Justin Abdelkader. Like Nyquist, Abby destroyed the AHL during his second pro year(a point per game player) before coming to Detroit and he was never sent down again. Abdelkader got very long looks during his first pro season and it occurred during the playoffs. Nyquist has had a little time but the point is its not unheard of for the Wings to give a college guy a long look. They've done it in the past and other teams do it routinely.
Abdelkader and Nyquist are also two totally different types of players.

It's not unheard of, but it's also not commonplace. History has shown that the Wings are generally a little "slower" with their prospects, and I just can't agree that Nyquist is being "robbed" of an opportunity -- especially during this lockout-shortened season. He's one and a half seasons removed from college, and next year he'll get his shot.

I've said it before, and it's likely the last time I'll say it: If he (and Tatar as well) doesn't stick next season, then I'll start to question the (mis)handling of Wings prospects. As it stands, Babcock won't give young, skilled guys "appropriate" opportunities, there are too many forwards on the team already, and the Griffins already played half a season before the Wings even got started. If there'd been a full season this year, the story would likely be different; if the season had been lost, all of this would be moot because Grand Rapids would be the only game in town by default.

He (they) will get chances, but next year. When there's a full training camp, and a full season.

Look, I'm in the minority here, that's fine. I get it. I don't mind that at all. I have my opinions, and you (and by extension, everyone else) have yours, and there's literally zero chance anyone changes anyone else's mind. I'm tired of re-hashing the same stuff over and over, so this time I'm really, REALLY done with this thread.


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03-19-2013, 07:12 PM
  #118
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The thing that most fans aren't seeing is that Nyquist and Tatar aren't the future.

They would make us better TODAY.

We've got some guys on this team who aren't earning their paychecks. The organization would be wise to cut a veteran and let everyone on the team know that it's time to get serious

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03-19-2013, 07:45 PM
  #119
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It's not unheard of, but it's also not commonplace. History has shown that the Wings are generally a little "slower" with their prospects, and I just can't agree that Nyquist is being "robbed" of an opportunity -- especially during this lockout-shortened season. He's one and a half seasons removed from college, and next year he'll get his shot.
Everyone on this board said the same thing last year about this season. I'll believe it when I see it.

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03-19-2013, 07:50 PM
  #120
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The thing that most fans aren't seeing is that Nyquist and Tatar aren't the future.

They would make us better TODAY.

We've got some guys on this team who aren't earning their paychecks. The organization would be wise to cut a veteran and let everyone on the team know that it's time to get serious
This. There is nothing more these guys can learn down there, just nothing and you are starting to hear it in their voices when they do the interviews when they get back. Just listened to Gus' intermission interview during the Griffins game. Much like Tatar he says a lot of the right things, but you can tell he knows he shouldn't be at that level. Kaiser baits them with the questions too. But the tension is really building, they aren't getting chances and they are better than some of the guys that are and significantly better at this point and time and they know it.

They can make a big long playoff run in the AHL and learn a little. But not as much as they are going to learn at the NHL level. I do think the extra hockey could help, but keep in mind if the Wings/Griffins crash out early Tatar should play in the WC anyway or be sent back down as the Griffins can likely make it out of the first round even without these two guys.

Curious does anybody think Team Sweden would give Gus a look? A lot of the NHL standbys are not going to be available for the WC.

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03-19-2013, 07:54 PM
  #121
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Everyone on this board said the same thing last year about this season. I'll believe it when I see it.
Nyquist has to, he isn't waiver eligible.

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03-19-2013, 09:20 PM
  #122
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If he (and Tatar as well) doesn't stick next season, then I'll start to question the (mis)handling of Wings prospects.
The only reason to think that some of them might get a chance next year is because they are no longer waiver eligible. Which means only Nyquist and not Tatar.

But we still have way too many forwards for their inclusion next year to be anything resembling a "sure thing."

1. We have 15 forwards right now. 4 are UFA next year, 1 is RFA.

2. I hope to god we let Cleary go, but who knows, holy crap I'm terrified. But of the other UFAs, I think there's a good chance we resign Brunner and Filppula. We might let Miller go, but if he stays dirt cheap, I don't see why we don't sign him and keep depth. I'd easily take him over a guy like Eaves and Abby.

3. I also think there's a good chance they resign Andersson. He's making a solid case for himself over Emmerton. He plays an obviously bigger game and he's got some skill. Emmerton has improved so much since last year, and I actually don't hate him anymore, but it still seems like he's behind Andersson.

4. Some expect Jarnkrok to make a play for a spot next year in some capacity. Even if we let every UFA/RFA go, that's 10 forwards out of 12 regular spots. And potentially 3 guys fighting for just 2 spots. Remember, that is only in the scenario where we let everyone go. We do not resign Filppula, Brunner, Miller, Andersson. Any of them.

What do you think the likelihood is of Holland letting go Filppula, Brunner, Andersson? Pretty low I think.

Barring some trades and letting everyone go, there's still a chance Tatar doesn't play regularly with the team next year. If I'm Tatar and I don't get a spot next year, I am pissed off. That'll be 3-4 years in the AHL, playing at a high level and producing, being patient, making things happen in my brief callups, and still being kept down just because I'm waiver eligible and they can do what they want to me. Is it a good thing to be pissing off prospects? Making our team worse by not fielding the best team at the same time?

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03-19-2013, 09:53 PM
  #123
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Nyquist has to, he isn't waiver eligible.
What happens if Bert and Sammy come back next year? What happens if Cleary and Miller get the typical Red Wings veteran loyalty hand-out contract? What if they decide Andersson is better suited for a bottom 6 role and our top 6 is all set?

Like I said... I'll believe it when I see it.

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03-19-2013, 10:06 PM
  #124
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We've got a coach who is a size queen ... which is why Joakim Andersson is on the team even though he's done nothing except score a couple of goals against Roberto Luongo on a day when Luongo couldn't stop a beachball.

Strange that Coach Babcock is a size queen... considering his best players -- by far -- are Datsyuk and Zetterberg

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03-19-2013, 10:14 PM
  #125
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We've got a coach who is a size queen ... which is why Joakim Andersson is on the team even though he's done nothing except score a couple of goals against Roberto Luongo on a day when Luongo couldn't stop a beachball.

Strange that Coach Babcock is a size queen... considering his best players -- by far -- are Datsyuk and Zetterberg
And the team that won him a cup was small and played a beautiful puck-possession game...

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