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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Which player had the best skillset in their prime?

View Poll Results: Player with the best skillset
Mario Lemieux 46 34.59%
Wayne Gretzky 50 37.59%
Sergei Fedorov 17 12.78%
Peter Forsberg 1 0.75%
Eric Lindros 5 3.76%
Pavel Bure 5 3.76%
Sidney Crosby 1 0.75%
Alexei Kovalev 2 1.50%
Jaromir Jagr 5 3.76%
Alex Ovechkin 1 0.75%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:22 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
Fedorov is clearly the most popular character in here.

People either love him or hate him. This is another proof of his greatness.
More like lots of Red Wing fans stumbling in from the bar.

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03-19-2013, 12:23 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
Fedorov is clearly the most popular character in here.

People either love him or hate him. This is another proof of his greatness.
This forum goes in waves. We talk about one player, and then since he's on the mind, he comes up in multiple threads. Rinse and repeat with the next player.

And no, it's not a proof of greatness; you're looking for the word polarizing.

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03-19-2013, 12:33 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
This forum goes in waves. We talk about one player, and then since he's on the mind, he comes up in multiple threads. Rinse and repeat with the next player.

And no, it's not a proof of greatness; you're looking for the word polarizing.

Polarising is also a good word.

By the way, why is Bob Nystrom so much underrated on this forum? He was arguably a perfect hockey player - would work hard in the corners, beat up an opponent, score a game-winner and help you win the Stanley Cup.

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03-19-2013, 12:38 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
Polarising is also a good word.

By the way, why is Bob Nystrom so much underrated on this forum? He was arguably a perfect hockey player - would work hard in the corners, beat up an opponent, score a game-winner and help you win the Stanley Cup.
Isn't it obvious? He didn't wear a helmet and those sideburns take away from his greatness.

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03-19-2013, 12:41 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
That's because SKILLS have nothing to do with STATS.
They have a lot to do with stats. It is not the whole story, but you don't get all-time great stats without all-time skills.

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03-19-2013, 12:42 PM
  #106
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Isn't it obvious? He didn't wear a helmet and those sideburns take away from his greatness.

Actually, wearing no helmet is a sign of true greatness.

And by the way, the legendary Sergei Fedorov would not wear a helmet at times.

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03-19-2013, 12:47 PM
  #107
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Actually, wearing no helmet is a sign of true greatness.

And by the way, the legendary Sergei Fedorov would not wear a helmet at times.
But Godorov did not have those groovy sideburns Bob had.

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03-19-2013, 01:02 PM
  #108
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But Godorov did not have those groovy sideburns Bob had.

Yes, I agree Bob was the man. My favourite player.

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03-19-2013, 01:10 PM
  #109
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As for Lemieux what skill set did he have that Gretzky didnt? Note that I dont consider being bigger to be a skill.
Lemieux was a better stickhandler, with a better wrist shot, slapshot (not to say Wayne couldn't hit the head of a pin with his shot, because he could...but Lemieux's shot was as accurate with a lot more mustard on it), better puck control skills, with better one on none skills (if I'm not mistaken, he was 100% on penalty shots until around 1997) and was faster during the first half of his career.

However, as I said before, if we're counting vision and hockey IQ as "skills," Wayne still blows him out of the water. Not because Lemieux's hockey IQ wasn't hall of fame level (it was), but because Wayne's was so much higher than hall of fame level.

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03-19-2013, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Lemieux was a better stickhandler, with a better wrist shot, slapshot (not to say Wayne couldn't hit the head of a pin with his shot, because he could...but Lemieux's shot was as accurate with a lot more mustard on it), better puck control skills, with better one on none skills (if I'm not mistaken, he was 100% on penalty shots until around 1997) and was faster during the first half of his career.

However, as I said before, if we're counting vision and hockey IQ as "skills," Wayne still blows him out of the water. Not because Lemieux's hockey IQ wasn't hall of fame level (it was), but because Wayne's was so much higher than hall of fame level.


Gretzky is so overrated in this forum. Even more than Fedorov

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03-19-2013, 01:29 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
Gretzky is so overrated in this forum. Even more than Fedorov
A little hard to overrate multiple 200+ point seasons. On the otherhand there's more than a few posters around who overrate the hell out of Selke votes.

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03-19-2013, 01:47 PM
  #112
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A little hard to overrate multiple 200+ point seasons. On the otherhand there's more than a few posters around who overrate the hell out of Selke votes.

Right, 200+ point...

Unfortunately, this is how most people judge about hockey players -- look, in his best years he scored 70 goals a season, means he's better than that other guy who had only 65 goals.

Example: I remember Bernie Nicholls and his 150 pts season. Does it mean he was a better forward than say Messier or Gilmour?

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03-19-2013, 01:52 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
Gretzky is so overrated in this forum. Even more than Fedorov
With 12 votes for Holy Moses Fedorov; Gretzky can now be claimed underrated, at least for this week or in this poll. I honestly don't remember this much Holy Moses Federov talk when he was playing nevermind he has turned into a top 3 player that ever played by some people around here.

Speaking of Bob Nystrom, he was a great player, way overlooked because those Islander teams were so good and filled with tons O talents. I put him on a level with Terry O'Reilly as far as importance to a hockey club. Nystrom did everything, he was the consummate team and hockey player, they don't call Nystrom "Mr Islander" for no reason. Nice choice, good to see not everyone is blinded by stats and scoreboards.

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03-19-2013, 01:54 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
Example: I remember Bernie Nicholls and his 150 pts season. Does it mean he was a better forward than say Messier or Gilmour?
150 points once, a career outlier, which happened entirely because of that overrated guy you were talking about earlier.

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03-19-2013, 01:54 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
Right, 200+ point...

Unfortunately, this is how most people judge about hockey players -- look, in his best years he scored 70 goals a season, means he's better than that other guy who had only 65 goals.

Example: I remember Bernie Nicholls and his 150 pts season. Does it mean he was a better forward than say Messier or Gilmour?
Are you seriously acting like that is a legitimate comparison?

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03-19-2013, 01:54 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
Gretzky is so overrated in this forum. Even more than Fedorov
Would be great to here some reasoning of why exactly he is so overrated?

I mean he is the guy with strongest case to be made as the best player of all-time. He practically owns the forwards record book. Adjusted and raw stats.

The fact that some people say Fedorov's Hart season was in the same tier as some of Gretzky's best season's is a true testament to the fact that Selke trophy is highly overrated.

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03-19-2013, 01:56 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
With 12 votes for Holy Moses Fedorov; Gretzky can now be claimed underrated, at least for this week or in this poll. I honestly don't remember this much Holy Moses Federov talk when he was playing nevermind he has turned into a top 3 player that ever played by some people around here.

Speaking of Bob Nystrom, he was a great player, way overlooked because those Islander teams were so good and filled with tons O talents. I put him on a level with Terry O'Reilly as far as importance to a hockey club. Nystrom did everything, he was the consummate team and hockey player, they don't call Nystrom "Mr Islander" for no reason. Nice choice, good to see not everyone is blinded by stats and scoreboards.

Thank you for your kind words, BamBam Cam.

If this was only possible, I would love to see Mario Lemieux, Sergei Fedorov and Bob Nystrom in their prime skating on the same line.

This would be the coolest forward line ever.

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03-19-2013, 02:05 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Would be great to here some reasoning of why exactly he is so overrated?

I mean he is the guy with strongest case to be made as the best player of all-time. He practically owns the forwards record book. Adjusted and raw stats.

The fact that some people say Fedorov's Hart season was in the same tier as some of Gretzky's best season's is a true testament to the fact that Selke trophy is highly overrated.


To be serious, I really believe that Lemieux deserves the title of the best ever.

My post about Bernie Nicholls was a half-joke. I just do not understand people that are blinded by the stats like they are the only criteria in hockey.

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03-19-2013, 02:14 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
To be serious, I really believe that Lemieux deserves the title of the best ever.

My post about Bernie Nicholls was a half-joke. I just do not understand people that are blinded by the stats like they are the only criteria in hockey.
But Gretzky doesn't only have the stats, he has the Harts and the Cups.

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03-19-2013, 02:19 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
To be serious, I really believe that Lemieux deserves the title of the best ever.

My post about Bernie Nicholls was a half-joke. I just do not understand people that are blinded by the stats like they are the only criteria in hockey.
It is fine. Also, Lemieux is one of the 4 players that has even remotely reasonable arguments for being the best ever. Although i would think you are in the minority on that one. Lemieux is more often 4th than 1st.

It is hard to be overrated when you are arguable the best ever.

I think there is more candidates for overrated than Gretzky. Maybe Fedorov is bit overrated, but not by many and for the counter-part he is underrated by some. I guess Feds is the kind of player that gives a wrong impression if looking too much about stats.

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03-19-2013, 02:22 PM
  #121
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But Gretzky doesn't only have the stats, he has the Harts and the Cups.
Exactly. Harts and Cups are more important than 200+ pts.

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03-19-2013, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
It is fine. Also, Lemieux is one of the 4 players that has even remotely reasonable arguments for being the best ever. Although i would think you are in the minority on that one. Lemieux is more often 4th than 1st.

It is hard to be overrated when you are arguable the best ever.

I think there is more candidates for overrated than Gretzky. Maybe Fedorov is bit overrated, but not by many and for the counter-part he is underrated by some. I guess Feds is the kind of player that gives a wrong impression if looking too much about stats.
I agree

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03-19-2013, 02:25 PM
  #123
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Exactly. Harts and Cups are more important than 200+ pts.
Well, how is he overrated then?

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03-19-2013, 02:27 PM
  #124
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To be serious, I really believe that Lemieux deserves the title of the best ever.
Ya, and you know what? You are perfectly entitled to that opinion. Remove the stats from the equation altogether. Base it on what you personally find aesthetically & artistically, from a character & talent perspective what you yourself most appreciate. Some of an older generation say Gordie Howe or even Jean Beliveau; others Orr, Lafleur, Gretzky, Lemieux. When I think "all round game", I dont actually think of the latter 4 at all, thinking more Howe, Beliveau, a Red Kelly, Keon, H. Richard, Lidstrom, Datsyuk etc. More temporal talents. As for "Best Player Ever", then you get into guys like Lemieux, Orr, Gretzky etc. I classify them on an entirely different plain, sets of criteria.

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03-19-2013, 02:33 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Well, how is he overrated then?
I saw that some guys praise Gretzky without measure and even rate him way above all other greatest HHOFers. I honestly thought they've been overegging the pudding

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