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Let's Speculate on our long-term D-corps

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Old
03-18-2013, 10:20 AM
  #51
BlackStar
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Markov should be kept, even an ageing Markov will help this team. Markov is not a greedy guy, and he is loyal, I think that we can resign him to a reasonable contract when the time comes. But believe it or not, Markov helps out Subban a lot more than people think. Before many of you start fuming, I am not one of those who underestimates Subban's phenomenal play and talent. Nevertheless, Markov is taking load off of Subban shoulders. Subban's job is definitely less stressful with markov there to help him.

Markov's value to the current and future success of this team shouldn't devalued. Markov's presence on the team would help out offensive defence-men like Beaulieu, Diaz, Thrower, etc. Tinordi keeps talking about how Gorges and Boullion have helped him out a lot, as good as Subban is defensively, he just cannot help Tinordi out as much as the older (defensive) defence-men.

So let's keep Markov, this team is and will be better with him on it.

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Old
03-18-2013, 10:22 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockjngo View Post
in 2 years when Markov retires...We'll see a bigger group who can skate.

Tinordi (6'6" 230lbs) - Subban (6'0" 210lbs)
Beaulieu (6'3" 210lbs) - Gorges (6'1" 190lbs)
Emelin (6'2" 220lbs) - Diaz (5'9" 180lbs)
Ellis (6'2" 210lbs)

Powerplay:
Subban - Diaz
Beaulieu - Ellis/Gorges

Penalty kill:
Tinordi - Subban
Emelin - Gorges

---------------------------------------

On forward:
Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher
Galchenyuk-Eller-Prust
Leblanc-Dumont-Moen/Kristo/Bournival

Price
Whoever
Diaz is not 5'9.

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Old
03-18-2013, 10:28 AM
  #53
Richiebottles
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I think that Nygren will surprise people once he comes to NA. I hope he plays for Hamilton next year because I have a feeling he wont need much time in Hamilton before he is ready.

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Old
03-18-2013, 10:51 AM
  #54
hogtownhabsfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Currently:
Andrei Markov - UFA 2014
Josh Gorges - UFA 2018
PK Subban - RFA 2014
Alexei Emelin - UFA 2014
Raphael Diaz - UFA 2014
Francis Bouillon - UFA 2013
Tomas Kaberle - Probably bought out this summer.
In the near (0-2 years)future:
Jarred Tinordi, looked good in his first game apparently
Greg Pateryn, progressing well, could become another Gorges
Nathan Beaulieu, progressing well and getting more and more responsibilities in Hamilton
Morgan Ellis, apparently playing well in his first season in Hamilton
In the intermediate future (2-3 years):
Magnus Nygren, won an award in the SEL, could become good or could become the next Nicklas Torp
Darren Dietz, other people around the forum like him a lot.
Dalton Thrower, other people around the forum like him a lot, and really good at fighting.

What do you expect will happen?
A GM can't look at things in this way, but as fans it's admittedly fun. Assuming Subban can be extended, he's the man for the next decade hopefully. Gorges is locked up, and along with Emelin and Tinordi we got three defensive minded guys with varying skillsets. I like Tinordi to be paired with Subban, his rangyness, toughness, and defensive mindedness would allow Subban to play his game and take chances. While Emelin has been great beside Markov, I find his edge has been taken away playing on the right side. I think he and Gorges could make a great "shutdown" type of pairing. Diaz I really like his hockey IQ. Am also a fan of Magnus Nygren. Pateryn, Ellis, Thrower, and Dietz have to be seen as depth for now.

Have never been the biggest Beaulieu fan, but if he can bust out next year perhaps he replaces Markov, or at worst is great insurance for Markov. Resigning Markov will be an interesting decision.

Tinordi-Subban (#1 pairing)

Emelin-Gorges (shutdown pairing)


With the third pairing being where the decision will have to be made, as in, Markov or Beaulieu, Diaz, or another defensive guy.

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Old
03-18-2013, 11:31 AM
  #55
dreamingofdrouin
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Originally Posted by Mother Pucker View Post
As much as I'd be the first to applaud if we'd get a good return in the case of a Markov trade, I think a lot of people underestimate Markov's impact on our being #1 this season. I think we'd be better off with a 1-2 punch at defense consisting Subban and Markov, than pretty much anything we could get in return for Markov. Except, of course, if we fleece another GM.
Also I agree with the poster that says that Markov is the type of d-man that can be useful in his late 30s, being the type of player he is. If we can resign him at a decent contract, we are better off keeping him than losing a couple ranks in the standings.

Exactly...markov's game relies on his hands and his hockey IQ....those are the kinds of old guys that have success in this league.....it's like the ryder cole trade...we got a guy who's game relies in his sweet hands....whereas cole's game revolvees around his speed.....ryder will last longer because of that, and markov has some great years left in him let.

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Old
03-18-2013, 12:43 PM
  #56
Lionel Mandrake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingofdrouin View Post
Exactly...markov's game relies on his hands and his hockey IQ....those are the kinds of old guys that have success in this league.....it's like the ryder cole trade...we got a guy who's game relies in his sweet hands....whereas cole's game revolvees around his speed.....ryder will last longer because of that, and markov has some great years left in him let.
I agree Markov I think has many quality years left. Problem is that I think his 5-on-5 minutes will diminish over the next few years simply because he's lost a little mobility compared to his pre-injury game. so I don't think you can invest close to 6M of your cap in him. If he was willing to come down closer to 4M I think it's a no-brainer.

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Old
03-18-2013, 01:51 PM
  #57
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We have a great future.
Moreso when your 1-2 guys are under 28 years old!

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Old
03-18-2013, 02:41 PM
  #58
Jee
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In 5 years:

Subban - Gorges
UFA - Tinordi
Beaulieu - UFA

Have a feeling both Emelin and Diaz will be gone.

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Old
03-18-2013, 03:16 PM
  #59
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I expect when Beaulieu is ready, Markov will be out. Next year, or the one after that.

I really hope we keep Emelin long term.

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Old
03-18-2013, 03:41 PM
  #60
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Murray or Smid need to be signed for next year. Future looks bright but we need to get bigger on the back end sooner than later

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:00 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Murray or Smid need to be signed for next year. Future looks bright but we need to get bigger on the back end sooner than later
I say sign Murray for 2 or 3 years and let the young guns develop. The worst that can happen is that we trade Murray for prospects and picks when the young guys are developed.

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:14 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jee View Post
In 5 years:

Subban - Gorges
UFA - Tinordi
Beaulieu - UFA

Have a feeling both Emelin and Diaz will be gone.
I really doubt that and I don't see why MB would want to sign free agents on our D with all the prospects we have.

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:36 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
I really doubt that and I don't see why MB would want to sign free agents on our D with all the prospects we have.
A prospect is just what the word means.

Look at all of the prospects that we have had in Montreal that did not pan out the way everyone had hoped for.

A GM cannot hang his hat on what "might be coming" for his team.

And the same holds true for our DMen as well as the list of Forwards who are on the team now. If you are not moving pieces in order to improve, you will be passed along the way.

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:37 PM
  #64
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We're missing a Jones type in our top 6

Spread a Jones, Emelin and Tinordi over the 3 pairings and you have a Cup winning team

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:42 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
A prospect is just what the word means.

Look at all of the prospects that we have had in Montreal that did not pan out the way everyone had hoped for.

A GM cannot hang his hat on what "might be coming" for his team.

And the same holds true for our DMen as well as the list of Forwards who are on the team now. If you are not moving pieces in order to improve, you will be passed along the way.
Montreal has a lot of depth in terms of D prospects, I think the habs lead the NHL in that category. We don't to go shopping in that category, where we need to do it is on the LW.

With Gorges, Markov, Emelin and Diaz there's really no need to go looking for someone who might not fit as great as these guys already do. Prospects like Beaulieu and Tinordi can confidently be projected to have long careers in the NHL and we only have 1 or 2 ( if there are bad injuries) spots left on our roster.

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:46 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Montreal has a lot of depth in terms of prospects, I think the habs lead the NHL in that category. We don't to go shopping in that category, where we need to do it is on the LW.
I disagree. If we take that approach, we become Edmonton.

It takes time for a majority of skilled young players to become impact players. They need to be surrounded with skill with experience.

Our biggest weakness on D is an overall lack of size and physicality. Sure, Tinordi will fill that role...........one day in the future. But not next year.

The Habs still have to compete while waiting for the prospects to become effective in their roles here.

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Old
03-18-2013, 05:15 PM
  #67
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Unless Tinordi pulls a Gallagher and forces his way into the lineup, I'd look at Smid (plan A) or Leopold (plan B). Kaberle and Weber seem to be as good as gone, Bouillon is aging, and outside of maybe Tinordi, none of the Bulldogs appears close to ready. This has been a great season for health on the blue line, but it is usually a good idea to prepare for more injuries. Over the course of a normal season, the #9 dman often gets plenty of games.

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Old
03-18-2013, 06:32 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Unless Tinordi pulls a Gallagher and forces his way into the lineup, I'd look at Smid (plan A) or Leopold (plan B). Kaberle and Weber seem to be as good as gone, Bouillon is aging, and outside of maybe Tinordi, none of the Bulldogs appears close to ready. This has been a great season for health on the blue line, but it is usually a good idea to prepare for more injuries. Over the course of a normal season, the #9 dman often gets plenty of games.
True, we need 9 dmens. That's why we are in good shape at this position. I predict subban, diaz and emelin will sign an extension before they reach free agency in 2014. Even with the youngsters. And I wouldn't be surprised if Markov is still aroud.

It'd be :
Subban
Diaz
Gorges
Emelin
Markov
Tinordi
Beaulieu
For a top 7, it looks good (if beaulieu progression go on as it is)

And there's many teams who prefer having 8 defensemen and 13 forwards nowadays. It's harder to replace a 6th dman than a 4th liner

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Old
03-18-2013, 07:15 PM
  #69
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Depending on how long term we are talking here, the only one's that I speculate to still be on the Habs are Subban and Tinordi. Gorges can also be put into the category due to his long term contract. But Subban and Tinordi will have roles that few can take from them I think. With prospects, you never know how the progression is going to go but we do have many promising ones. The more that turn out well the better, as dmen are valuable trade chips. I wouldn't be against packaging some of them up now to acquire a top 3 dman in his prime right now. I remember the projected lineups from 4 or 5 years ago, very very few remain.

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Old
03-19-2013, 07:21 AM
  #70
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I've been waiting along time for this thread! We have so many blue chippers in the system that we don't have enough room for all of them - a nice problem to have. And Dietz is going to be a beast!

In 2-3 years, I foresee this as our group:

Montreal
Subban & Gorges
Tinordi & Beaulieu
Nygren & Ellis
Dietz

Hamilton
Thrower & Bennett
Pateryn & Career AHLer (Stejkal, Desantis etc...)
Didier & Career AHLer

In the system: Sullivan and alot of d-man that we'll draft this year.

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:17 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I suspect Diaz will be the odd man out simply because Markov and Subban bring everything Diaz brings and more.

If Subban is going to be at 7m, Markov at 5m, Gorges & Emelin at 4m each, then a couple of ELC players at 1m each. That's 6 D at 22M, which in reality is not really an overpayment for a good D core. Besides I'd rather overpay a little to get a top end D-core then skimp on the D to overpay on forwards.
this. Diaz is looking for a raise, and the way he played this season so far it's well deserved, but we already have Markov/Subban capable of bringing offense from the back end and when everyone's healthy Diaz will play the 3rd pair... as good as he can be, there's no point in paying 3Mil or more to play on the last pair, might as well give the spot to a cheaper D or a youngster.

Markov, Subban, Gorges and Emelin are a lock for the top 4, and Markov/Subban are a lock for the 1st PP unit...


Last edited by ECWHSWI: 03-19-2013 at 09:23 AM.
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Old
03-19-2013, 09:46 AM
  #72
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Tinordi is very much on pace to be a regular in our top 6 next season. He likely get's 5 or less games this year, and might get another callup once the Bulldogs are eliminated much like Subban a couple of years ago.

With Subban, Eller, Emelin, and Diaz all needing pay raises, Tinordi on the cheap will be beneficial to staying under the cap.

Gorges-Subban
Markov-Emelin
Tinordi-Diaz

There's no room to really sign anyone but a depth guy to shelter JT.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:54 AM
  #73
Kjell Dahlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock On View Post
For 2013-2014, I expect Kaberle to be bought out, Weber dealt, Bouillon inked for another year, Tinordi making the team and the other prospects not making it.

Top 7 : Subban, Markov, Gorges, Diaz, Emelin, Tinordi, Bouillon
Top Callups : Pateryn and Beaulieu

And as a contender team, they may want to get a rental at the deadline

2014-2015 will be a tough year for MB. He'll have a deal new contracts with Markov, hypothetically Bouillon, Diaz and Emelin's agents. It's hard to predict but I guess Markov will take a paycut for 2 years and both Diaz and Emelin will get long term contracts. However, Beaulieu is a wild card, if he's ready to be top 4 ( which I doubt) Diaz will be gone. Bouillon will be gone too.

Top 7 : Subban, Markov, Gorges, Diaz, Emelin, Tinordi, Beaulieu.

After that, there's too much factors, but I like our D depth and depth over years
^^same here^^

If our Canadiens start the next season with the following D squad, I would be a happy fan:

Gorges – Subban
Markov – Emelin
Tinordi – Diaz
Bouillon

Grit, experience, puck moving skills... I like it a lot!

I also agree with you regarding the 2014-15 season: it will depend on Beaulieu’s progression.

Timmins

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Old
03-19-2013, 11:55 AM
  #74
AntonCH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post

If our Canadiens start the next season with the following D squad, I would be a happy fan:

Gorges – Subban
Markov – Emelin
Tinordi – Diaz
Bouillon

Grit, experience, puck moving skills... I like it a lot!

I also agree with you regarding the 2014-15 season: it will depend on Beaulieu’s progression.

Timmins
I like this except for our 7th D
Don't get me wrong, i Like Frankie Boo as much as the next guy, but since he's a UFA, let's go find a big body crease clearer for those games with teams that we know will run Price

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:02 PM
  #75
Kjell Dahlin
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I like this except for our 7th D
Don't get me wrong, i Like Frankie Boo as much as the next guy, but since he's a UFA, let's go find a big body crease clearer for those games with teams that we know will run Price
A bigger and equally good version of Bouillon may cost too much money for a #7D but eh... we are chatting about Bergevin here so everything is possible! Bouillon would be a solid and cap friendly #7D imo but I would be a happy fan if they can ink a bigger version at the same price.

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