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Will Flyers Offersheet Alex Pietrangelo?

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:23 PM
  #51
achdumeingute
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
St.Louis will match any offer sheet that comes that way.
7 yrs, 12m per?

I'd lol hard if we did 1 yr at 12m...have fun with your QO next year.

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03-19-2013, 12:24 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
If Holmgren keeps up sooner or later it's gonna be his player that ends up getting offer sheets.
Keeps up what?

He's offersheeted Shea Weber. That's a whole lot of legacy to continue. He's right up there with all of those other GMs that offersheeted one player.

Classless, I know...

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03-19-2013, 12:25 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
They can't file OS for both simultaneously, right? They wouldn't have the picks if both OS were accepted and not matched.

EDIT: To clarify, they could submit OS to both, but it is likely that only the first one signed (in this hypothetical) would be valid, since the other would (presumably) require some of the same compensation.
The first Offer Sheet would encumber the picks and the second would be rejected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old CBA Aricle 10.3(h)
(h) Upon receipt of an Offer Sheet, the Prior Club shall immediately fax to
Central Registry, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereto, a request to encumber the New
Club's required draft picks and place them in reserve for the Prior Club. Upon receipt of
either a copy of such Offer Sheet or the fax from the Prior Club, Central Registry shall
immediately determine whether the New Club's required draft picks are available and
unencumbered. If such draft picks are available, the League shall encumber them in
reserve for the Prior Club. If the required draft picks are not available and
unencumbered, the League shall immediately notify all parties (the Restricted Free
Agent, his Certified Agent (if any), the New Club and the Prior Club), all in accordance
with Exhibit 3 hereto, and the said Offer Sheet shall be deemed null and void.
Upon
receipt of any First Refusal Exercise Notice, Central Registry shall immediately release
any encumbrance it has placed on the New Club's draft picks.

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:26 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
Okay so you buy out Briere and Bryz and get and Instant $12 Million In Cap Space so that's now $15 million In cap space to sign 7 more players now, Still leaves little wiggle room to offer sheet unless you want to put a bunch of cheap scrubs on your team and I'm sure that Philly would never do that.
We would. We just offered 3 100m contracts over the summer, 2 on the table at the same time.

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03-19-2013, 12:27 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
This whole 'making enemies' thing is ridiculous.
not sure if you followed Burke's reaction after Lowe signed Penner... but your statement is completely inaccurate

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:28 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I... I just don't get it.

Look at the roster I posed above.

Would there be long-term issues? Sure. At minimum, after the 2013-2014 season, the Flyers would have to use a compliance buy-out on Pronger (for Giroux's raise) and let Gagne and Talbot walk (to pay Couturier and Schenn (who's cap hit is currently listed at $3.1 AAV on capgeek, so he won't be getting a massive raise from that in terms of cap space).

Would the Flyers deal with those issues to have a franchise-caliber defenseman? Gladly.

But Pietrangelo will never make it that far. I just wanted to demonstrate that the Flyers have plenty of potential cap space.
You need to brush up on the rules. This summer is the last opportunity teams will have to use a compliance buyout. You can't buyout an injured player, so your fantasy scenario doesn't fly with Pronger's contract magically disappearing. He's a 35+ contract. Best they could do is LTIR on him, but they're stuck paying him.

Let's say best case scenario, they sign Giroux at $8M per season, because I don't see him getting anything less given that the max they can give him is 8 years. That's adding $4M+ in cap space, which isn't too big of a dent considering all of the players the Flyers have coming off the books in 2014. But those UFA players in 2014 are largely insignificant, and they'll have 10 contracted players on the roster for 2014, not including their RFAs that will have to be signed. That's a lot of holes to fill on their roster.

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:30 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Did you read any of the subsequent posts in the thread?

That capgeek number includes Briere and Bryzgalov (either or both of whom could be bought out) as well as Pronger, who will got on LTIR at the start of next season (so he cancels out the 10 percent offseason cushion).

There are many reasons that an OS won't work, but lack of cap space isn't one of them.
But real dollars will.
EDIT: It isn't even that hard, and it can be done without buying out Bryzgalov or LTIRing Pronger.

- Buy-out Briere.
- Trade Meszaros to anyone for anything. A 2nd is reasonable, a 3rd is cheap.
- Re-sign Gagne (even assuming he gets the same, 3.5 AAV)
- Sign a backup goalie @ $900k



N.B. I'm not saying this will happen. It won't. The Flyers will not successfully O.S. Pietrangelo. But it won't be because they lack the cap space. The Blues are a very good franchise on the rise. They will get their franchise player signed.
It is very easy to say buy player X out. But not so much on players with long term deals because you are really looking at large $$$. Briere would be 2/3 of 13 million. Bryz.. he is a tad more then that.

In Briere are essentially paying him 9 million to play somewhere else (and he can sign anywhere at a discount). Same with Bryz, but larger $$$. I have a hard time seeing a team give up 10 million per to players playing for a rival.

I get that Phili has large money available, but you are starting to look at way too much money for no return. It is fun to talk about, but man does that hurt.

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03-19-2013, 12:30 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
You need to brush up on the rules. This summer is the last opportunity teams will have to use a compliance buyout. You can't buyout an injured player, so your fantasy scenario doesn't fly with Pronger's contract magically disappearing. He's a 35+ contract. Best they could do is LTIR on him, but they're stuck paying him.

Let's say best case scenario, they sign Giroux at $8M per season, because I don't see him getting anything less given that the max they can give him is 8 years. That's adding $4M+ in cap space, which isn't too big of a dent considering all of the players the Flyers have coming off the books in 2014. But those UFA players in 2014 are largely insignificant, and they'll have 10 contracted players on the roster for 2014, not including their RFAs that will have to be signed. That's a lot of holes to fill on their roster.
That's not correct. You need to brush up on your rules.

And yeah, the Flyers can't buyout Pronger, but that doesn't matter. He's just going to float on LTIR until his contract is up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy1 View Post
It is very easy to say buy player X out. But not so much on players with long term deals because you are really looking at large $$$. Briere would be 2/3 of 13 million. Bryz.. he is a tad more then that.

In Briere are essentially paying him 9 million to play somewhere else (and he can sign anywhere at a discount). Same with Bryz, but larger $$$. I have a hard time seeing a team give up 10 million per to players playing for a rival.

I get that Phili has large money available, but you are starting to look at way too much money for no return. It is fun to talk about, but man does that hurt.
The Briere buyout would be 2/3rds of $3m, not $13m.

Snider would easily fork out that cash if Holmgren got rid of Briere. Bryz is a lot more money, and a different matter entirely, but the organization has another year to decide what to do with him.

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03-19-2013, 12:32 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
You need to brush up on the rules. This summer is the last opportunity teams will have to use a compliance buyout. You can't buyout an injured player, so your fantasy scenario doesn't fly with Pronger's contract magically disappearing. He's a 35+ contract. Best they could do is LTIR on him, but they're stuck paying him.

Let's say best case scenario, they sign Giroux at $8M per season, because I don't see him getting anything less given that the max they can give him is 8 years. That's adding $4M+ in cap space, which isn't too big of a dent considering all of the players the Flyers have coming off the books in 2014. But those UFA players in 2014 are largely insignificant, and they'll have 10 contracted players on the roster for 2014, not including their RFAs that will have to be signed. That's a lot of holes to fill on their roster.
Fair enough on Pronger. I missed that.

Then they compliance buyout Brzgalov, LTIR Pronger, and have even more cap space, albeit with a hole in net.

Look, I get your point--such a drastic play would create long-term issues for the franchise. But it isn't impossible--it isn't really even that close to impossible--to create the cap space for such an offer sheet. That was my point.

It's all academic, because Pietrangelo will never hit the market.

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:32 PM
  #60
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I can see them offersheeting him if they get the chance. Wont get him though.

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03-19-2013, 12:32 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That's not correct. You need to brush up on your rules.

And yeah, the Flyers can't buyout Pronger, but that doesn't matter. He's just going to float on LTIR until his contract is up.
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/88...ts-source-says
Quote:
When the CBA was ratified last week, each team was allowed two compliance buyouts, although they were not to be used until this offseason and next. If a team chooses to use an accelerated compliance buyout now, that will count against the two allotted in the CBA.

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:32 PM
  #62
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We will dump Halak and go with Allen to save money before we lose Petro or Shatty.

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03-19-2013, 12:33 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
You need to brush up on the rules. This summer is the last opportunity teams will have to use a compliance buyout. You can't buyout an injured player, so your fantasy scenario doesn't fly with Pronger's contract magically disappearing. He's a 35+ contract. Best they could do is LTIR on him, but they're stuck paying him.

Let's say best case scenario, they sign Giroux at $8M per season, because I don't see him getting anything less given that the max they can give him is 8 years. That's adding $4M+ in cap space, which isn't too big of a dent considering all of the players the Flyers have coming off the books in 2014. But those UFA players in 2014 are largely insignificant, and they'll have 10 contracted players on the roster for 2014, not including their RFAs that will have to be signed. That's a lot of holes to fill on their roster.
It's a shame when someone tells another poster they need to brush up on the rules, when they have them wrong themselves.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...youts/1837621/

Quote:
Under the new collective bargaining agreement, the salary cap will fall to $64.3 million, teams can use a total of two buyouts next summer or in the summer of 2014 to get under the cap. The buyout money would not count against the salary cap but it would count against the players' 50% share of hockey-related revenue.
As much as people think the Flyers will have cap problems, they have many ways around it. It's almost a foregone conclusion that if Briere isn't traded at the deadline, he will be bought out. Bryz is probably a better option for next summer because it will be much more palatable for Snider to eat the contract after we pay him the big dollars. Pronger on LTIR does take up our cushion and hurts in banking cap space for the deadline, but to say it's impossible to fit Piety under with an offer sheet is just wrong.

I don't think it happens also. If we offer sheet him, we need to make it so ridiculous it's impossible to match. I just don't see that happening TBH. It would have to be in the range of 7 years 65-70 million IMHO to even make St Louis think about it. If they do have trouble locking him up or he does want to move, trying to make a trade for him would be more appropriate.

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03-19-2013, 12:33 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Exactly. So you were wrong.

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03-19-2013, 12:34 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
We will dump Halak and go with Allen to save money before we lose Petro or Shatty.
Bryzgalov + 7th for Halak and we promise not to send offersheets.

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03-19-2013, 12:35 PM
  #66
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This offseason is the upcoming one (summer 2013). Next one is summer 2014.

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03-19-2013, 12:35 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by alpine4life View Post
not sure if you followed Burke's reaction after Lowe signed Penner... but your statement is completely inaccurate
And if Burke turned down a deal to help his team because Lowe played by the rules and Burke was mad about then Burke is a colossal moron.

If you don't want a RFA signed, sign them first or roll the dice. Business is business.

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03-19-2013, 12:36 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
It's a shame when someone tells another poster they need to brush up on the rules, when they have them wrong themselves.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...youts/1837621/
I was off due to the NHL/NHLPA making changes in order to help the Rangers and Habs to buyout Gomez and Redden and extended the buyouts. Originally, the compliance buyout was intended to help clubs get under the cap in 2013-14.

And it doesn't change the fact that I'm right about the Flyers being unable to buyout Pronger's contract. It's a shame some of you Flyers fans are living in fantasy land.

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03-19-2013, 12:37 PM
  #69
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This whole 'making enemies' thing is ridiculous.
I'm sure that Poile is just dying to make trades with Holmgren now. Holmgren has burned bridges.

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03-19-2013, 12:39 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Fair enough on Pronger. I missed that.

Then they compliance buyout Brzgalov, LTIR Pronger, and have even more cap space, albeit with a hole in net.

Look, I get your point--such a drastic play would create long-term issues for the franchise. But it isn't impossible--it isn't really even that close to impossible--to create the cap space for such an offer sheet. That was my point.

It's all academic, because Pietrangelo will never hit the market.
The reality is I can't see us giving Pietro more than 8 (he doesn't deserve that even) and STL will easily match that.

Possible OS,yes. probable OS, no.

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03-19-2013, 12:40 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
We will dump Halak and go with Allen to save money before we lose Petro or Shatty.
I don't think anyone is even really arguing that the Flyers would succeed and get Pietrangelo. Only that cap-wise they could and Holmgren would.

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03-19-2013, 12:41 PM
  #72
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The reality is I can't see us giving Pietro more than 8 (he doesn't deserve that even) and STL will easily match that.

Possible OS,yes. probable OS, no.
Completely agree.

I was simply pointing out that the Flyers could, in two perfectly plausible moves (buying out Briere and trading Mezsaros for a pick) create enough space for a $10 AAV offer.

I don't expect them to get the chance to do it, and I'm not at all certain it would work even if they did.

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03-19-2013, 12:41 PM
  #73
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If both Dmen get to the offersheeting stage then the Flyers have to pick one and give them a ridiculous deal. It's the quickest way to solving a major issue. However, the kid they pick better be the real deal because they'll be giving up a lot. Hopefully some players can be moved at the deadline to prepare for some of those potentially traded picks.

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03-19-2013, 12:42 PM
  #74
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Why don't we look at the Blues salary structure.

We have roughly $32.5 million in real dollars for 12 players next season. Of the free agents, McDonald, D'Agostini, and Langenbrunner will all not return.

Lets say Pietrangelo gets an offer for $9 million per. Shattenkirk gets 4.5, Stewart gets 4, Berglund gets 3.75, Nichol and Porter get the same contract at 650K, Russell gets 1.5, Cole gets 1, and Redden gets 1.

All that gives us a cash payroll of around $58.5 million. This is not even factoring in replacing Elliott with Allen saving a little bit more. It is also not factoring in any of the players receiving less money up front like we do with all of our re-signings.

It would truly take something out of this world for us not to match.

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03-19-2013, 12:42 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by CanadienShark View Post
I'm sure that Poile is just dying to make trades with Holmgren now. Holmgren has burned bridges.
I doubt any GM ever makes a deal they think is bad. Poile should try to make the preds better no matter who is on the other end of the phone. He doesn't have to play scrabble with homer at the GM party though.

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