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Old
03-18-2013, 11:47 AM
  #51
BergyWho37
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
That's actually pretty much par for the course for Horton physically. And I don't mind that one bit, not at all. Rick Nash is the exact same type of player.

There are two types of physically dominate guys, those that leave a trail of bodies all over the ice and those that are big enough, and use their size well enough that they can exert their will all over the ice. Horton falls into the latter category when he's on his game.

Problem with Horton imo has been production or lack thereof, but that's a symptom of the concussion more then lack of desire. He's always produced. He's still a fraction of a second behind where he usually is and for offensive production that fraction of a second is a killer. It'll take time, but he'll be right as rain eventually.

I'm not sure why Lucic was getting crapped on. Guy leads the team in hits by a large margin and is producing at a similar clip to what he usually does offensively. He's really been our only physical presence of any significance up front.
Nash type ... now that's hilarious ... falling everywhere and losing the puck more then his linemates, soft on the forcheck ..

Glen Murray type skates when he wants and finds the seems .... this is Horton with the odd highlight move from time to time

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03-18-2013, 12:21 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by maahchand10 View Post
I know Clode called his two big wingers out and it seemed to work..for that game. What I don't understand is how a coach can be so stubborn as to know shake lines up. Oh I'm sorry he put Krejci and Seguin together for a few shifts, they lit itup then he went back to his cofort zone...Does he think he is hurting guys feelings by splitting them up? If Chia doesn't get him some help and he honestly can't figure out a decent line shakeup needs to happen; i don't care if he won a cup and he has einsteins version of a hockey system it's just BS.

P.S. I am sick of the Pandlfo, Rolston Whitfield Plugs being asked to do to much.
To be fair Rolston looked pretty good last year on that third line. Brian was voted start of the game a couple of times and didn't hurt the B's.

I hope the B's pick up a scoring winger.

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03-18-2013, 12:44 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Ladyfan View Post
To be fair Rolston looked pretty good last year on that third line. Brian was voted start of the game a couple of times and didn't hurt the B's.

I hope the B's pick up a scoring winger.
Arguably the most consistent Bruin coming down the stretch, probably explains the early exit

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03-18-2013, 12:48 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
Arguably the most consistent Bruin coming down the stretch, probably explains the early exit
I always liked Rolly.. I wasn't sure what to expect last Spring when he joined the team but I thought after a couple of games he looked good.

He is / was such a strong skater , had a good shot and was a smart hockey player.

I guess he is done.

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03-18-2013, 12:54 PM
  #55
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This should be fun. Horty & Lucic without Krejci

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03-18-2013, 01:22 PM
  #56
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My GF will be glad when Horton is gone because he "looks like a ******bag".
With that said... He's reminiscent of Pouliot out there when he's not pissed off. Bambi!

If Krejci's not playing tomorrow maybe Horton and Lucic would play harder if they had a rookie center that they can "protect". This might come off as another attempt at promoting Spooner but Seguin I think might have that same effect.

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03-18-2013, 01:38 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by ReggieMoto View Post
The concern over splitting players up and redistributing them throughout the lines has nothing to do with "hurting guys feelings". It has everything to do with maintaining productivity with lines that are producing.

Right now, one line is consistently producing: Marchand, Bergeron, Seguin. Two lines are consistently producing if you also count the fourth line.

Marchand recently posted in his personal blog how his linemates are clicking because they have been playing together for some time now and they are able to depend on each other, knowing where each other is going to be, almost intuitively working together as a well-oiled machine.

Breaking this line up and redistributing the talent will not result in immediate, or even short term, results. We've seen this in the past and frankly, I'd prefer to not see this now.

The Krejci line needs to figure out what their issues are and correct them. Moving pieces around is not going to resolve that. Coach Julien has been recently forced to compensate for the missing third line center by occasionally moving different players around at different times throughout the games, but they aren't permanent moves by any stretch.

His preference seems to be -- and I hope it remains his preference -- to keep the lines together as much as possible. The first line needs to figure their issues out and resolve them. The only real holes that need to be resolved are third line related: center and wing. The solution to that will come out of either Providence or the UFA market. But the coach shouldn't be dismantling lines to address it in the long term.

I apologize for insulting Julien. I never said dismantle the team either. If our best optinis to let that line "figure it out" well then thats fine I guess, we can hope the M-B-S line can continue their pace the rest of the season.

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03-18-2013, 02:10 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maahchand10 View Post
I never said dismantle the team either.
I didn't say dismantle the team. I said dismantle lines, as in move Seguin here (off the Bergeron line), and Krejci there (away from Horton and Lucic). Those are examples by the way, not quotes.

Quote:
If our best optinis to let that line "figure it out" well then thats fine I guess, we can hope the M-B-S line can continue their pace the rest of the season.
That's what I would do. It doesn't seem to me that it's a solution a number of posters here would prefer, though.

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03-18-2013, 02:28 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by BergyWho37 View Post
Nash type ... now that's hilarious ... falling everywhere and losing the puck more then his linemates, soft on the forcheck ..

Glen Murray type skates when he wants and finds the seems .... this is Horton with the odd highlight move from time to time
"Type" does not imply skill level... and sorry, Horton is a lot closer to a Nash type then a Murray type. Murray succeeded in a different era and struggled in the new one due to his skating. Murray was excellent at finding open ice and had a hell of a shot. He also greatly benefited from marquee centers such as Thornton and Savard, two of the best passers of the modern era.

Horton is a different type. He shields the puck well and uses his size to drive to the net. He's a great skater and big body that rarely throws his weight around. He's always produced at the NHL even without a marquee center.

My assumption is you're trying to imply a Murray comparison here simply because they are both big but non-physical (even though the nominal physicality Horton brings dwarfs Murray in this regard) and Murray's production dropped off dramatically after the lockout similar to how Horton's dropped off this year. I'd say their games are quite different, a bigger skill player is more often then not non-physical (Nash for example), and I don't expect Horton's production to stay in the toilet for reasons already stated.

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03-18-2013, 03:03 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieMoto View Post
The concern over splitting players up and redistributing them throughout the lines has nothing to do with "hurting guys feelings". It has everything to do with maintaining productivity with lines that are producing.

Right now, one line is consistently producing: Marchand, Bergeron, Seguin. Two lines are consistently producing if you also count the fourth line.

Marchand recently posted in his personal blog how his linemates are clicking because they have been playing together for some time now and they are able to depend on each other, knowing where each other is going to be, almost intuitively working together as a well-oiled machine.
Breaking this line up and redistributing the talent will not result in immediate, or even short term, results. We've seen this in the past and frankly, I'd prefer to not see this now.

The Krejci line needs to figure out what their issues are and correct them. Moving pieces around is not going to resolve that. Coach Julien has been recently forced to compensate for the missing third line center by occasionally moving different players around at different times throughout the games, but they aren't permanent moves by any stretch.

His preference seems to be -- and I hope it remains his preference -- to keep the lines together as much as possible. The first line needs to figure their issues out and resolve them. The only real holes that need to be resolved are third line related: center and wing. The solution to that will come out of either Providence or the UFA market. But the coach shouldn't be dismantling lines to address it in the long term.
The bolded is precicely why I say they should leave the lines together on the PP.

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03-18-2013, 05:48 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
"Type" does not imply skill level... and sorry, Horton is a lot closer to a Nash type then a Murray type. Murray succeeded in a different era and struggled in the new one due to his skating. Murray was excellent at finding open ice and had a hell of a shot. He also greatly benefited from marquee centers such as Thornton and Savard, two of the best passers of the modern era.

Horton is a different type. He shields the puck well and uses his size to drive to the net. He's a great skater and big body that rarely throws his weight around. He's always produced at the NHL even without a marquee center.

My assumption is you're trying to imply a Murray comparison here simply because they are both big but non-physical (even though the nominal physicality Horton brings dwarfs Murray in this regard) and Murray's production dropped off dramatically after the lockout similar to how Horton's dropped off this year. I'd say their games are quite different, a bigger skill player is more often then not non-physical (Nash for example), and I don't expect Horton's production to stay in the toilet for reasons already stated.
Sorry dude don't see it the same ... Horton is far from a great skater .. ankle burner with good hands and a good scoring touch ..... watch the games dude he falls more then any other bruin !!

My Murray example wait until Horton gets to his age

Krech sets him up lots ... sure he's no Jumbo Joe but come on he's had lots of chances from krech and I could even argue Murray simply was a better goal scorer .... Looch Krech do the dirty work Horton floats out high ... simple too see

Will say when he plays similar to Looch that line looks dangerous but it doesn't happen enough .... mostly cause other teams KNOW don't poke those 2 bears

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03-18-2013, 08:44 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by BergyWho37 View Post
Sorry dude don't see it the same ... Horton is far from a great skater .. ankle burner with good hands and a good scoring touch ..... watch the games dude he falls more then any other bruin !!

My Murray example wait until Horton gets to his age

Krech sets him up lots ... sure he's no Jumbo Joe but come on he's had lots of chances from krech and I could even argue Murray simply was a better goal scorer .... Looch Krech do the dirty work Horton floats out high ... simple too see

Will say when he plays similar to Looch that line looks dangerous but it doesn't happen enough .... mostly cause other teams KNOW don't poke those 2 bears
I'll just say "I disagree" (based off of watching him), and leave these tidbits (more to prove to myself my brain didn't break):

http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/...layer.php?2808
Quote:
Assets: Can shoot the puck at will and skates very well for a big man.
http://bruins2010draftwatch.blogspot...-going-to.html
Quote:
Red Line Report 2003 Draft Guide

Terrific size, speed, strength and a bit of a nasty streak all add up to world-class prospect. Outstanding skater for a big man who can make plays at top speed and is adept at giving and receiving passes.

RLR 2003 Awards section:

#10 in "Best Pure Skaters" category": Rare for such a big man to have the combination of power, acceleration and balance that he has.
Horton can skate. And if you think that line is all Lucic and Krejci, might want to look at how "Krech's" production dropped off when Horton went down last season.

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03-18-2013, 11:13 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
I'll just say "I disagree" (based off of watching him), and leave these tidbits (more to prove to myself my brain didn't break):

http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/...layer.php?2808


http://bruins2010draftwatch.blogspot...-going-to.html


Horton can skate. And if you think that line is all Lucic and Krejci, might want to look at how "Krech's" production dropped off when Horton went down last season.
Did you bother reading the flaws ?

When Horton went down ? We still won the cup ... Krech went down lost 4 straight

Krech and Looch also had decent numbers the season after .... without a regular linemate so not sure where your going on that one ? FACT Krejci had the exact same point total

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03-19-2013, 12:29 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by BergyWho37 View Post
Did you bother reading the flaws ?

When Horton went down ? We still won the cup ... Krech went down lost 4 straight

Krech and Looch also had decent numbers the season after .... without a regular linemate so not sure where your going on that one ? FACT Krejci had the exact same point total
Is there anything in there I didn't already state about him? You were talking specifically about skating, was just providing additional sources to lend credence to the old eyeball test. You say he isn't a good skater, you'd be wrong.

Horton went down last year, this is the season after... so you lost me there, but as for where I was specifically going...

Last year with Horton in the lineup:
Lucic .822 PPG
Krejci .884 PPG

Last year without Horton in the lineup:
Lucic .667 PPG
Krejci .667 PPG
* Not including playoffs in which both players had 3 points in 7 games (.429 PPG)

Production went down, even though many different players were tried on that line. You can't go back to a time when Horton wasn't even in the lineup to prove worth... yes Krejci went down and that was the straw. But it was so because that left us with one healthy center (Savard was a shadow of his former self and shouldn't have come back so soon), and there were already other key missing pieces (like our #2 dman in Seidenberg).

So, in summary, Horton can skate (he's quite good at it actually especially considering his size) and that line suffers without Horton.

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03-19-2013, 11:12 AM
  #65
maahchand10
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Originally Posted by Ladyfan View Post
To be fair Rolston looked pretty good last year on that third line. Brian was voted start of the game a couple of times and didn't hurt the B's.

I hope the B's pick up a scoring winger.
I didn't mean to bash Rolston he was good for us. I just meant this whole theory we can take guys at the end of their career or medicore at best at this point and hope that puts us over the top. Mowers although not a Clode product, may have been a better example

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03-19-2013, 11:59 AM
  #66
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One game. They need to play that way the next game. And the next game. And the next game.

Exactly.

I'm not saying it's not typical of some players, but can anyone argue that Horton and (to a lesser degree because he wasn't that bad before) Lucic look like different players after being called out?

All their positive attributes make them net positive players, but there's no doubt these guys don't bring it every night. Or better said, they bring it on a less consistent basis than most quality players.

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03-19-2013, 11:59 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Is there anything in there I didn't already state about him? You were talking specifically about skating, was just providing additional sources to lend credence to the old eyeball test. You say he isn't a good skater, you'd be wrong.

Horton went down last year, this is the season after... so you lost me there, but as for where I was specifically going...

Last year with Horton in the lineup:
Lucic .822 PPG
Krejci .884 PPG

Last year without Horton in the lineup:
Lucic .667 PPG
Krejci .667 PPG
* Not including playoffs in which both players had 3 points in 7 games (.429 PPG)

Production went down, even though many different players were tried on that line. You can't go back to a time when Horton wasn't even in the lineup to prove worth... yes Krejci went down and that was the straw. But it was so because that left us with one healthy center (Savard was a shadow of his former self and shouldn't have come back so soon), and there were already other key missing pieces (like our #2 dman in Seidenberg).

So, in summary, Horton can skate (he's quite good at it actually especially considering his size) and that line suffers without Horton.
Think what you like dude your not changing my mind ... You take any guy off a line that's been together for that long ... there will be growing pains .... arguing common sense but at the end of the year they have basically the same amout of points ... with or without Horton

Skating part... this is silly stuff and not sure you understand what I mean . He can skate north an south but once he turns those ankles to cut into the center or in high traffic area he falls ... even falls a lot when he shoots more so on slappers .... This is all part of skating use Looch for a reference does he fall in these areas .... Hardly ever if you ask me .. maybe if someones crosschecking him

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03-19-2013, 12:02 PM
  #68
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He isn't making 6 mill per yet, but to answer the question I think Lucic is a player worth that, yes.

If all he was counted on for was production then I would have issue even at 1 million lower, but that's not why he got that 6 million dollar extension. He got it because he puts up 60'ish points a season (which is as good as anyone else on this team including Krejci and Bergeron) while being one of if not the most physically dominating top 6 forwards in the league. That line has struggled to produce, but again there are 3 players that make up that line. Lucic is still doing what he always does, he's creating havoc around the goal, punishing the opposition physically, and causing turnovers by doing so. I think he's very consistent in this regard.

Yes, i believe he is right now worth that 6 million price tag, even though he is not yet making it. You take Lucic out of this lineup and the Bruins forward corps are a bunch of ***** cats outside Thornton. He's the main reason the moniker Big and Bad sticks.
I disagree. He's probably been more consistent in that regard this year than years past, if that's your point, but it's not there every night. As a means of comparison, think of how often you can count on Bergeron winning little battles all over the ice. Pretty much every game, right? Lucic's physical presence doesn't approach Bergeron's consistency.

I like him, I wouldn't want to lose him, but I think he's both overrated and overpaid.

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03-19-2013, 12:38 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by maclgallant View Post
i'm sure lucic will be in shape by the end of this month,
maybe it would be a good idea to give him a few days off (maintenance) so he can recover and be ready comes playoff time

i'm sure his newborn had a lot to do with his lack of training, can't really blame him
that would be the weakest excuse i have ever heard.....

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03-19-2013, 12:43 PM
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i love Lucic, but my problem is his contract this year, let alone next.

To many turn overs. and to inconsistent for a six million dollor first liner.

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03-19-2013, 01:12 PM
  #71
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I disagree. He's probably been more consistent in that regard this year than years past, if that's your point, but it's not there every night. As a means of comparison, think of how often you can count on Bergeron winning little battles all over the ice. Pretty much every game, right? Lucic's physical presence doesn't approach Bergeron's consistency.

I like him, I wouldn't want to lose him, but I think he's both overrated and overpaid.
You can't compare the two imo, comparing physicality to Begreron's smarts is like comparing it to Chara's reach. That's just what they are. Physicality is more situational dependent. By the only real measure we have Lucic is one of the most consistent physical players in the league (and fights more and more dominantly then any other top 6 forward in the league). He's one of the few players who consistently are at the top of the leaderboard in hits each season and he produces offensively pretty well to boot.

Maybe it isn't Lucic who needs to adjust his game to be more physical, maybe it's some of us who need to adjust our expectations of what a physical player is in the league?

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03-19-2013, 01:21 PM
  #72
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i love Lucic, but my problem is his contract this year, let alone next.

To many turn overs. and to inconsistent for a six million dollor first liner.
Lucic piles up the turnovers b/c of the sheer amount of times he handles the puck on a shift.

That line doesn't accomplish dinky ****ing doo if Lucic isn't making good passes out of the zone, or is hoofing the puck through the neutral zone. Ever notice he's the only guy on that line even capable of backing up the D?

If they dump it in, nothing happens if Lucic doesn't go in and scare the **** out of defenders, force bad passes, or out muscle sometimes 2 defenders.

Looch is overpaid by a/b a million. Considering we need MORE of what Lucic does, and not LESS? I'll take the overpayment so I don't have to watch Lucic turning Krejci into a grease spot in another uniform. While we sit around here going, "DuUh..wE nEedZ a Ffizical pReseNts oN Dah MaTRix lINe! UuuuUh, hoW cOme Dah Matrix dOsen't get dah PuCK nO mOre? Duuuuh."

People get on Lucic for all the wrong reasons. He has 4 goals. We know he's capable of more, what happened to the scoring chances he used to get and bury? They have been too few and far between. Some of it is the role he's pigeonholed into on that line, often burying him on the perimeter. He also looks for the pass too often. Sometimes he gives Krejci the puck in places Krejci doesn't even want the puck. Why doesn't he use that big body, good reach, and create mayhem by driving the puck to the net? Even if he didn't score, he would create an unpredictable mess, giving his linemates chances for rebounds. The rare times he's done that, it almost always resulted in a quality scoring chance. Even did it against Pronger. If Pronger couldn't stop him, why isn't he encouraged to do it more by the coaching staff?

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03-19-2013, 01:28 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by bb_fan View Post
i love Lucic, but my problem is his contract this year, let alone next.

To many turn overs. and to inconsistent for a six million dollor first liner.
Yeah he will be under big time scrutiny...I think we may have already saw his career year though...

He needs to work on getting the puck out of his zone..he gets nightmarish back there..

In the O zone he has to be dominant. He's a pretty good passer, but he needs to summon his inner Simmonds and Clarkson and get those dirty goals..

Thinking we are going to have to expect 20-25 goals, 50-60 points, 200 hits, 8 fights or so, and 100PIM...

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03-19-2013, 01:29 PM
  #74
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Lucic piles up the turnovers b/c of the sheer amount of times he handles the puck on a shift.

That line doesn't accomplish dinky ****ing doo if Lucic isn't making good passes out of the zone, or is hoofing the puck through the neutral zone. Ever notice he's the only guy on that line even capable of backing up the D?

If they dump it in, nothing happens if Lucic doesn't go in and scare the **** out of defenders, force bad passes, or out muscle sometimes 2 defenders.

Looch is overpaid by a/b a million. Considering we need MORE of what Lucic does, and not LESS? I'll take the overpayment so I don't have to watch Lucic turning Krejci into a grease spot in another uniform. While we sit around here going, "DuUh..wE nEedZ a Ffizical pReseNts oN Dah MaTRix lINe! UuuuUh, hoW cOme Dah Matrix dOsen't get dah PuCK nO mOre? Duuuuh."

People get on Lucic for all the wrong reasons. He has 4 goals. We know he's capable of more, what happened to the scoring chances he used to get and bury? They have been too few and far between. Some of it is the role he's pigeonholed into on that line, often burying him on the perimeter. He also looks for the pass too often. Sometimes he gives Krejci the puck in places Krejci doesn't even want the puck. Why doesn't he use that big body, good reach, and create mayhem by driving the puck to the net? Even if he didn't score, he would create an unpredictable mess, giving his linemates chances for rebounds. The rare times he's done that, it almost always resulted in a quality scoring chance. Even did it against Pronger. If Pronger couldn't stop him, why isn't he encouraged to do it more by the coaching staff?
Their line is the easiest out for the opposition... Chris Bourque did more down low work then that line this year. The 1st and 4th lines do a good job keeping it in...the 3rd line was good last year...

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03-19-2013, 03:07 PM
  #75
Neely08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Their line is the easiest out for the opposition... Chris Bourque did more down low work then that line this year. The 1st and 4th lines do a good job keeping it in...the 3rd line was good last year...
You're right. The LKH line often cycles the puck to no where. Why this board puts all the heat on Lucic; instead of the other members of that line who often can't shake their checks enough to make something happen, is beyond me.

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