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Flames and Sens looking at Read

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:09 PM
  #51
Emerica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I am interested in Wiercioch. Extremely interested in him. He has impressed me when watching the Sens games. The move and score on Price not too long ago was pretty damn nice. Although price probably wants that back. He has top 4 potential but needs to develop. Although Bishop+Wiercioch seems like good value to me, I just don't think this is a move Homer is looking to make.
Bishop + Wiercioch? No thanks.

Ottawa values Bishop as a 2nd rounder+ and we drafted Wiercioch in the second a couple of years ago. Either I underate Read or you're overating his value.

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03-19-2013, 02:11 PM
  #52
Hale The Villain
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
See, that's the thing. I was impressed with him when I say him, but the scouting reports all seem fairly cautious in their projections of his ceiling. Anyway, I should have been more clear. That return is underwhelming for Read, who plays in all game situations, can play all three forward positions, and puts up a .5 PPG+ pace on a 900k contract.

For Briere? Done and done.
Wiercioch was projected as a future 4/5/6 guy before this season. He was breaking out in our AHL affiliate Binghamton scoring 10G, 19P in 32GP before the NHL came back. He has continued breaking out with the Sens, and now I think most project him to be a good 3rd/great 4th for us.

A Bishop + Wiercioch return for Read would be a win for the Flyers. Even though Read is a good player, such a deal could give Philly a #1 goaltender and a top 4 defenseman. As a Sens fan I hope Murray keeps Wiercioch out of any deal. Kid has the tools to be a real good defender, tremendous raw talent.

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03-19-2013, 02:12 PM
  #53
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If we trade Bouw for Read im going to lose my freaking marbles...that would be a terrible move.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:15 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hale The Villain View Post
Wiercioch was projected as a future 4/5/6 guy before this season. He was breaking out in our AHL affiliate Binghamton scoring 10G, 19P in 32GP before the NHL came back. He has continued breaking out with the Sens, and now I think most project him to be a good 3rd/great 4th for us.

A Bishop + Wiercioch return for Read would be a win for the Flyers. Even though Read is a good player, such a deal could give Philly a #1 goaltender and a top 4 defenseman. As a Sens fan I hope Murray keeps Wiercioch out of any deal. Kid has the tools to be a real good defender, tremendous raw talent.
I agree with you. I would trade Read or Briere for Bishop and Wiercioch as a Flyers fan. I am not sure if the Sens need a forward that badly. I know you were burned by Meszaros before but I would do Read + Meszaros for Bishop and Wiercioch.

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03-19-2013, 02:16 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
If we trade Bouw for Read im going to lose my freaking marbles...that would be a terrible move.
Read and Meszaros?

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:17 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Hale The Villain View Post
Wiercioch is a 6'4 fast skating OFD with 11P in 25GP as a rookie on a low scoring team.

How exactly is he underwhelming?
His defensive game is underwhelming. Granted, its ten times better than his first call up, which says something.


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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I actually have watched several Ottawa games this year and Gryba isn't really what we need. He seems more like a shut down defender, which we already have Coburn, Grossmann, and Schenn. We need more puck moving offensive potential d men like Weircioch.
I think Turris and Wiercioch are pretty good buds, not sure if that is happening. Not to mention he is one of the only Sens that can score goals this year.

No offense to Read, but soon enough he is a UFA, his good cap value doesnt mean alot to Sens right now. He doesn't seem the like the type of quality player our prospect pipeline can't produce either. I can understand why you'd want a good player, I just fail to see the point for Ottawa. They'd be better off shipping off Bishop for rental scoring help.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:18 PM
  #57
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I really don't think we can move Read, he produces in every phase of the game and comes at a very cheap cap hit, we don't really have cap room to move a player who only makes 900k at his production level. And I reallllly don't want JayBo on this team, we're already so ****ed with the cap we can't afford his cap hit.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:19 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Kritty View Post
And the bashing of Bouwmeester continues. Even funnier because it's from people that probably have seen zero of him in actual game action.

So someone that plays nearly 25:00 a game in all situations and puts up a 40ish point pace isn't a #1? What do you call a #1? Bouwmeester is absolutely a #1. Put him in a market like New York, Boston, or Toronto and he would get the press he deserves. He is been solid in his own and end and has brought back his offence now that he has a coach that will actually let him use his speed and offensive instincts. Just look at where he was last night when he scored. He would never had that chance under Sutter.
You just described Matt Carle, all for 1.2 mil more than Carles dumb inflated salary. No thanks, I'll pass.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:20 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hale The Villain View Post

A Bishop + Wiercioch return for Read would be a win for the Flyers. Even though Read is a good player, such a deal could give Philly a #1 goaltender and a top 4 defenseman. As a Sens fan I hope Murray keeps Wiercioch out of any deal. Kid has the tools to be a real good defender, tremendous raw talent.
See, I think the issue is actually less Weircioch's perceived value to Flyers fans than Bishop's.

I was impressed (albeit in limited viewings) with Weircioch, and I had 15th row seats for the 3/2/13 game where Bishop was really good in a 2-1 loss in in Philadelphia. But he has taken his time to break in, and I think most Flyers fans aren't quite convinced he's a regular NHL starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
No offense to Read, but soon enough he is a UFA, his good cap value doesnt mean alot to Sens right now. He doesn't seem the like the type of quality player our prospect pipeline can't produce either. I can understand why you'd want a good player, I just fail to see the point for Ottawa. They'd be better off shipping off Bishop for rental scoring help.
Briere is the player you want.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:20 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
Read and Meszaros?
Value-wise its fine, but how does that really help a retooling Flames team? I mean Matt Read is young enough but will be almost exiting his prime by the time we are competitive again.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:21 PM
  #61
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Bouwmeester for Read straight up might be up there with the Phaneuf trade for the worst in Flames history

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03-19-2013, 02:24 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Value-wise its fine, but how does that really help a retooling Flames team? I mean Matt Read is young enough but will be almost exiting his prime by the time we are competitive again.
I guess it depends on how long you think itll take the Flames to re-tool. If you dont think they have any chance at the playoffs next season its not worth it.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:30 PM
  #63
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I really hope it's not Boumeester for Read straight up. There better be either a pick, prospect, or another good young dman coming back. Will not be happy if this rumor is true.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:32 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I actually have watched several Ottawa games this year and Gryba isn't really what we need. He seems more like a shut down defender, which we already have Coburn, Grossmann, and Schenn. We need more puck moving offensive potential d men like Weircioch.
Ah, ok. Didn't know what you meant, thought you were underrating Gryba to be honest.

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03-19-2013, 02:33 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Flamesrule View Post
I really hope it's not Boumeester for Read straight up. There better be either a pick, prospect, or another good young dman coming back. Will not be happy if this rumor is true.
Flyers don't have good young dmen, particularly not to spare.

And, honestly, I don't think you'll find many Flyers fans thrilled with this idea either, even while acknowledging that its a good deal on paper. Someone sabotage the phone lines or something.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:35 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Everything you said could well be right, but just to clarify, Read is a natural center (though not great on faceoffs) who's been moved to the wing in Philadelphia because of Giroux, Briere, Schenn, Couturier, Talbot, etc.

Honestly, I don't really see the point in trading for Bouwmeester. He seems redundant to the Flyers existing defense corps--an upgrade, to be sure, but an expensive one that would likely do little to address the team's problems, and create other holes.

Giordano seems a much better fit, though obviously he'd cost more as well.
I'm not sure Giordano would cost any more than JBo. JBo has really picked up his play under Hartley and has become a much more useful player. Prior to this year I would have valued Giordano higher too, but I think their trade value is comparable at this point. If Read can play center that changes things a bit. I'd want to see some of his play at the position before I did that though. Cammy and Cervenka have played center before too, but can't handle the down low responsibilities in their own zone.

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03-19-2013, 02:37 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Read + for Bouwmeester would likely give the Flyers the most expensive defensive corps in the league.



How do you spend $29+ million without having a #1 defenseman.

(and that doesn't include Pronger's LTIR hit)
This year JBo has definitely been a number 1 defenseman. Prior to this year your point was definitely valid. This might be the best all around year he's ever had. If you think this year and his years in Florida are blips on an otherwise overpaid #2 then you probably don't want him. If you think his time under Brent was the blip on an otherwise #1 defenseman you probably do. I don't like JBo, but the honest truth is I'm not sure which of those two things he is and that does effect his value.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:47 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Flamesrule View Post
I really hope it's not Boumeester for Read straight up. There better be either a pick, prospect, or another good young dman coming back. Will not be happy if this rumor is true.
Likewise..I hope we are not dealing read for just boumeester because he fixes nothing for phi... Horrible trade.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:57 PM
  #69
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I like Read alot and he'd be great fit for the Sens.

But after this year he's UFA and will require a nice raise.

Guys like Boro and Gryba arent enough to get Read and a guy like Wiercioch is a price I don't wanna play b/c he's improved leaps and bounds from start of year, plus then we lose a lot of mobility for this year.

I'd target Briere, from the looks of it we can get him cheap esp b/c his cap hit is so high but he's only owed 5 million dollars cash in two seasons after this and we're not a cap team, so cap hit doesnt matter to us like it does to Philly

I'd do
Briere and a 2nd (maybe a little plus)

for

Bishop, maybe an AHL contract dump too cause were close to limit

And it would turn out that we traded our 2nd pick for a higher 2nd(likely) and a veteran forward who is money in the playoffs and cheap dollar wise.... looks good to me... Flyers fans??

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03-19-2013, 02:59 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Likewise..I hope we are not dealing read for just boumeester because he fixes nothing for phi... Horrible trade.
For the Flames.... I see you haven't watched any Flames games this season, because Boumeester has improved greatly this season.

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Old
03-19-2013, 03:02 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Flamesrule View Post
For the Flames.... I see you haven't watched any Flames games this season, because Boumeester has improved greatly this season.
I hate it when people use that as an argument. JBo has played well this year, but he's still a risky pick-up because he had 3 years before that where he was overpaid. Teams have to determine which version of him was/is the anomaly. That means we have to realize the only way we get full value/should trade him is if someone thinks this version of him is reality. Otherwise it makes more sense to keep him and move Giordano as the more consistent player with the better cap number.

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03-19-2013, 03:02 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
You just described Matt Carle, all for 1.2 mil more than Carles dumb inflated salary. No thanks, I'll pass.
Carle plays on one of the most offensively loaded teams in the league, and leads his team amongst defencemen in PP time. He is still stinking it up.

Now that JBo is allowed to play his game, he's looking fantastic again.

JBo and Carle should not be mentioned in the same sentence this year. The Flames should also not be looking to get anywhere near that contract. They have their own Carle, but one that is producing, in Wideman. That's the much better comparable.

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Old
03-19-2013, 03:03 PM
  #73
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I'd target Briere, from the looks of it we can get him cheap esp b/c his cap hit is so high but he's only owed 5 million dollars cash in two seasons after this and we're not a cap team, so cap hit doesnt matter to us like it does to Philly

I'd do
Briere and a 2nd (maybe a little plus)

for

Bishop, maybe an AHL contract dump too cause were close to limit

And it would turn out that we traded our 2nd pick for a higher 2nd(likely) and a veteran forward who is money in the playoffs and cheap dollar wise.... looks good to me... Flyers fans??
That's pretty far off, to be honest--I think the 2nd is on the wrong side.

I don't believe Bishop is worth PHI 2nd alone (which will likely be between 31st and 36th). A mid-2nd, probably, though he is RFA at the end of the year, and I'd assume OTT has no plans to bring him back with Anderson and Lehner on board.

Bishop + 2nd for Briere is probably a reasonable offer, though if other teams are offering a 1st, it probably isn't good enough (EDIT: and OTT apparently doesn't have their 2nd this year?). But the Flyers would almost certainly be better off simply buying out Briere and keeping their early 2nd than they would be in doing this kind of a deal.

EDIT: This is the sort of deal that the Flyers might have been forced into if there weren't compliance buyouts, but there's really no reason for them to give away their 2nd to fix their cap problems for next year under the new CBA.

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Old
03-19-2013, 03:03 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by dmarc View Post
I like Read alot and he'd be great fit for the Sens.

But after this year he's UFA and will require a nice raise.

Guys like Boro and Gryba arent enough to get Read and a guy like Wiercioch is a price I don't wanna play b/c he's improved leaps and bounds from start of year, plus then we lose a lot of mobility for this year.

I'd target Briere, from the looks of it we can get him cheap esp b/c his cap hit is so high but he's only owed 5 million dollars cash in two seasons after this and we're not a cap team, so cap hit doesnt matter to us like it does to Philly

I'd do
Briere and a 2nd (maybe a little plus)

for

Bishop, maybe an AHL contract dump too cause were close to limit

And it would turn out that we traded our 2nd pick for a higher 2nd(likely) and a veteran forward who is money in the playoffs and cheap dollar wise.... looks good to me... Flyers fans??
I'd easily do Bishop for Briere. Not sure why Philly has to also throw in a 2nd though?

Is Briere really that disliked in Philadelphia now? He was great in the playoffs for them that year they went to the SCF.

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Old
03-19-2013, 03:03 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarc View Post
I like Read alot and he'd be great fit for the Sens.

But after this year he's UFA and will require a nice raise.

Guys like Boro and Gryba arent enough to get Read and a guy like Wiercioch is a price I don't wanna play b/c he's improved leaps and bounds from start of year, plus then we lose a lot of mobility for this year.

I'd target Briere, from the looks of it we can get him cheap esp b/c his cap hit is so high but he's only owed 5 million dollars cash in two seasons after this and we're not a cap team, so cap hit doesnt matter to us like it does to Philly

I'd do
Briere and a 2nd (maybe a little plus)

for

Bishop, maybe an AHL contract dump too cause were close to limit

And it would turn out that we traded our 2nd pick for a higher 2nd(likely) and a veteran forward who is money in the playoffs and cheap dollar wise.... looks good to me... Flyers fans??
There is no way we are including our 2nd rounder with Briere just to get Bishop+some cap dump. Just won't happen.

I think Ottawa would be reluctant to trade their 1st because the lack of a 2nd rounder this year. If the Sens aren't including a good prospect like Weircioch for Briere, I dont think it makes sense to move him there.

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