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corey perry signs with ana 8yrs 66m

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Old
03-19-2013, 01:25 PM
  #51
TatarTangle
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Perry's probably worth it, but I still don't like that much for a wing.
I'm in the other boat, I don't care what position it is, elite talent is worth elite money

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03-19-2013, 02:06 PM
  #52
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Ken Holland is going to have to offer Pavel Datsyuk $10 million to even try to get him to stay. The more elite free agents I see signed to long-term deals the more depressed I get about how bad this team could be when Datsyuk leaves. The odds of Detroit ever signing a big free agent with Ken Holland at the Helm is about .01%
Why In the world would Ken Holland have to offer Pavel Datsyuk $10 Million to stay, First off he either goes home to Russia or he reups with the Wings for a year or two He's not going to hit the open market so there Is no way In the world that the demand will be there for that kind of salary he would take his current salary of $6.7 million most likely Pavel has already won 2 Stanley Cups so he has nothing more to prove. He will be 36 years old next year there Is no way In the world he will get paid $10 million to stay In Detroit Ken Holland would let him walk back to Russia before that happen.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:12 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
Why In the world would Ken Holland have to offer Pavel Datsyuk $10 Million to stay, First off he either goes home to Russia or he reups with the Wings for a year or two He's not going to hit the open market so there Is no way In the world that the demand will be there for that kind of salary he would take his current salary of $6.7 million most likely Pavel has already won 2 Stanley Cups so he has nothing more to prove. He will be 36 years old next year there Is no way In the world he will get paid $10 million to stay In Detroit Ken Holland would let him walk back to Russia before that happen.
You answered your own question, cheers

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:15 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
you said teams "shouldnt pay stupid money for players."

that means you feel the Ducks paid stupid money for getzlaf and perry as both getzlaf and perry are players and the ducks just paid them.

what would you do as the ducks GM?
You are correct in reading that I would not have given both Getzlaf and Perry $8.25m and $8.625m respectively for 8 years (both with NMCs according to CapGeek). I think it's ridiculous to tie up ~25% of the Cap for the near future in TWO players.

That being said, in the case of the Ducks, I definitely agree that their hands (or wings?) were tied. Would I have offered them the contracts they got? No. I would have offered a smaller number ($7.5m max) for the max amount of years; I MIGHT have given one of them one of those contracts, but not both.

Whether or not that would have flown (pun intended?), well, who knows.

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if this summer datsyuk and zetterberg were both 26/27 and ufa's would you let them walk? its all great to say no sign them for less but that only happens if they take less then the market dicactes they're worth and that rarely happens around the nhl. guys like perry and getzlaf and suter and parise and weber get paid and paid well.
It's definitely a tough choice, and I don't envy the decisions Front Offices have to make sometimes (though they do get paid REALLY well to let criticisms roll of their backs). Hindsight is always 20/20, and in retrospect, again, it would have been a tough choice; for me, if all things were equal, I would have let Zetterberg walk and kept Datsyuk (always liked Datsyuk from the first time I saw him play), and tried to find a comparable via free agency or trade. It might have been a poor choice, or a great one, but we'll never know.

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this isnt arguementative by any strech just was looking for more clairty is all
And I apologize for jumping all over you earlier -- and that mini-rant wasn't directed solely at you... there's just been too much "attacking" lately, and it's wearing VERY thin.

Hey, Brick, am I still on schedule for my rants?

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:25 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I'm not sure I remember a lot of people pushing to give Parise north of $100M. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I thought the Wild's original offer was substantially less than what he ended up getting because Suter was willing to take less so they would have equal contracts.
You're not remembering incorrectly.

I think the only people willing to offer Parise $100m+ were a few message board posters (and maybe Paul Holmgren ). I don't remember hearing of any offers that high actually given to him.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:39 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I'm not sure I remember a lot of people pushing to give Parise north of $100M. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I thought the Wild's original offer was substantially less than what he ended up getting because Suter was willing to take less so they would have equal contracts.
No, the other way around.

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03-19-2013, 02:44 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
You're not remembering incorrectly.

I think the only people willing to offer Parise $100m+ were a few message board posters (and maybe Paul Holmgren ). I don't remember hearing of any offers that high actually given to him.
I would have been willing to go 100 million on Suter, I thought that was his magic number to not even listen anywhere else 13 or 14 years at that number. Plus I thought and still do think that he would age well. Preferred Semin to Parise from day 1, as Semin is the better player. I wouldn't pay Parise anymore than the Wings reported offer to him, which was pretty insulting when stacked up next to some of the other leaked rumors.

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03-19-2013, 02:47 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
I would have been willing to go 100 million on Suter, I thought that was his magic number to not even listen anywhere else 13 or 14 years at that number. Plus I thought and still do think that he would age well. Preferred Semin to Parise from day 1, as Semin is the better player. I wouldn't pay Parise anymore than the Wings reported offer to him, which was pretty insulting when stacked up next to some of the other leaked rumors.
But, but Semin is a locker room cancer! I like to daydream about how much better the Red Wings offense would be with Semin in the line-up.

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03-19-2013, 03:05 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
You are correct in reading that I would not have given both Getzlaf and Perry $8.25m and $8.625m respectively for 8 years (both with NMCs according to CapGeek). I think it's ridiculous to tie up ~25% of the Cap for the near future in TWO players.

That being said, in the case of the Ducks, I definitely agree that their hands (or wings?) were tied. Would I have offered them the contracts they got? No. I would have offered a smaller number ($7.5m max) for the max amount of years; I MIGHT have given one of them one of those contracts, but not both.

Whether or not that would have flown (pun intended?), well, who knows.



It's definitely a tough choice, and I don't envy the decisions Front Offices have to make sometimes (though they do get paid REALLY well to let criticisms roll of their backs). Hindsight is always 20/20, and in retrospect, again, it would have been a tough choice; for me, if all things were equal, I would have let Zetterberg walk and kept Datsyuk (always liked Datsyuk from the first time I saw him play), and tried to find a comparable via free agency or trade. It might have been a poor choice, or a great one, but we'll never know.



And I apologize for jumping all over you earlier -- and that mini-rant wasn't directed solely at you... there's just been too much "attacking" lately, and it's wearing VERY thin.

Hey, Brick, am I still on schedule for my rants?
allright i respect this post and a man that backs up what he say's.

I simply think going to July 1st hoping to sign key/core players to secure the future of your pro sports franchise is what leads GM's to by and large overpay for lesser players and is basically a failure of your mgmt team. However when it comes to superstars you spent time scouting, drafting and developing on your own and who are both so integral to your teams success today and tomorrow, that sometimes its both needed and warranted to do whatever you have to do to keep them.

I guess I just think what the Ducks did was the right thing

andddddd moved on..

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Old
03-19-2013, 03:08 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
allright i respect this post and a man that backs up what he say's.

I simply think going to July 1st hoping to sign key/core players to secure the future of your pro sports franchise is what leads GM's to by and large overpay for lesser players and is basically a failure of your mgmt team. However when it comes to superstars you spent time scouting, drafting and developing on your own and who are both so integral to your teams success today and tomorrow, that sometimes its both needed and warranted to do whatever you have to do to keep them.

I guess I just think what the Ducks did was the right thing

andddddd moved on..
Fair enough.

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03-19-2013, 03:09 PM
  #61
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Here are a few thoughts.

MOST players sign long term deals since they do not trust that they might not get injured. Etc etc.

Semin seems to be the opposite, he gets highly paid on short term deals.

Imagine this.

Datsyuk's contract expires and he doesn't demand a 4-5 year deal till retirement.

But rather a 2 year deal at 9-9.5 Mil per season.

Do you pay it?

My answer would be Yes. To any amount basically.

Complain all you want about Perry's contract.

Their team is 2 solid retirees (Koivu/Selanne) and 3 young superstars (Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan).

If the stars demand big money, you pay it, or all your season ticket holders leave. That is how it is.

You want a reasonable team payroll???

Imagine this for your team: (all 2nd liners) on top 3 lines.
-But be prepared to have complaints about all of them. You can't eat your cake and have it too.

Franzen-Hornquist-Filppula
Dubinsky-Hudler-Glencross
Morrow-D.Roy-Versteeg
Tatar-Helm-Nyquist

For every superstar you have to replace 1 or 2 2nd liners with "crappy 3rd liners like we have now"

Also you have to find all these 2nd line players to play for you for 3-4 million. That in itself can be tough.

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03-19-2013, 03:16 PM
  #62
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You pay your stars however much is needed to keep them around - then you use young players still in ELC's or cheap contracts and complimentary players with solid contracts to round out your team.

With today's salary cap era its impossible to stay competitive forever unless you get really lucky with some draft picks or free agent signings.

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03-19-2013, 03:22 PM
  #63
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I'm with the peeps (do the kids still say that?) who think the Ducks did what they needed to do with both the Getzlaf and Perry signings. Both guys are elite players in the league, and I was expecting each to get multiple $9M+ on the UFA market from other teams. Anaheim used their extra year advantage to get both guys under $9M, pretty much making up the difference of the extra $ per year they'd have gotten on 7 year deals elsewhere.

I think the new term limit on deals pretty much dictated that elite guys were going to have higher cap hits per year now than they did under the previous CBA rules- not sure why some people seem surprised by this. I guess it could be a sticker shock situation, but the Ducks are still going to be paying Perry $29M less than Parise will get from the Wild. Oh, and Perry's deal is only for 8 years, while Parise's runs through 2054 (seems excessive, but whatever...).

Could be wrong, but I think the 2 Ducks are the first elite players to get signed under the new CBA, so I'm expecting more of the same when other top guys are close to hitting the market. As others have pointed out, Holland would have been in a similar predicament if he had Z and D at age 27/28 each and about to hit the market.

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03-19-2013, 03:27 PM
  #64
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The problem isn't the amount per se, what would concern me as an Anaheim fan is that it has already been shown that it's perfectly possible for them to be a mediocre team in spite of Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan *and* Selanne who will probably retire in a couple months.

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03-19-2013, 03:27 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post

Imagine this.

Datsyuk's contract expires and he doesn't demand a 4-5 year deal till retirement.

But rather a 2 year deal at 9-9.5 Mil per season.

Do you pay it?

My answer would be Yes. To any amount basically.
Datsyuk would be fine for two year extension, even for 10 million. We have no cap problems for those years, our cap problems come back to consideration when the next generation of greatest prospects starts getting extensions. And that's not happening in next three years.

But I think Holland offers the same 6.7 million salary Datsyuk currently has when they start negoating. It was the Lidström way, you get older, but still are keeping your level = same salary. Or why not Zetterberg money at 7.5M? That ain't too high either, when the contract is short.

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03-19-2013, 03:30 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
And I apologize for jumping all over you earlier -- and that mini-rant wasn't directed solely at you... there's just been too much "attacking" lately, and it's wearing VERY thin.

Hey, Brick, am I still on schedule for my rants?
I think so- may be a day or so early, but then again 3 weeks was just a rough estimate, and I do believe that you may have a bit of Costanza in you... RED'S GETTING UPSET!!!

Seriously, I was thinking about your "rant schedule" even before I got to the bottom of your post and saw the shout-out... very, very funny. I'm not a big LOL guy, don't use it when texting and think it's often used by people even if they aren't ACTUALLY lol'ing at something... I really was this time.

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allright i respect this post and a man that backs up what he say's.
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Fair enough.
Get a freaking room, you two!

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03-19-2013, 03:35 PM
  #67
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The problem isn't the amount per se, what would concern me as an Anaheim fan is that it has already been shown that it's perfectly possible for them to be a mediocre team in spite of Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan *and* Selanne who will probably retire in a couple months.
I think it's just the cost of doing business these days. Obviously a GM has to be smart and only go that high on contracts for franchise players, while building in a cost-effective manner around those guys.

This season, we've more or less been a mediocre team in spite of Datsyuk and Zetterberg- it happens.

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03-19-2013, 03:43 PM
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Datsyuk would be fine for two year extension, even for 10 million. We have no cap problems for those years, our cap problems come back to consideration when the next generation of greatest prospects starts getting extensions. And that's not happening in next three years.

But I think Holland offers the same 6.7 million salary Datsyuk currently has when they start negoating. It was the Lidström way, you get older, but still are keeping your level = same salary. Or why not Zetterberg money at 7.5M? That ain't too high either, when the contract is short.
Oh I agree Henkka, that is where Holland will start.

I hope we can get Datsyuk for the cheapest we can, just pointed out that he is "worth" 10mil a year still

Lets hope we don't have to pay that much, but i will pay that much if the alternative is:

Kane-Toews-Sharp
Hossa-Datsyuk-XXX

My god... Id pay 12Mil to Datsyuk to make sure that never happens!! LOL

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03-19-2013, 03:46 PM
  #69
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I think it's just the cost of doing business these days. Obviously a GM has to be smart and only go that high on contracts for franchise players, while building in a cost-effective manner around those guys.

This season, we've more or less been a mediocre team in spite of Datsyuk and Zetterberg- it happens.
Something Something "Parity"
Something Something "We like our team"

The salary cap system will create many teams of equal talent levels. And the idea of having "super" teams and "basement" teams is a thing of the past. You tweak Florida and Buffalo a bit, and their teams are good again. You tweak the Rangers a bit and they go from first to ninth.

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03-19-2013, 03:57 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
Kane-Toews-Sharp
Hossa-Datsyuk-XXX

My god... Id pay 12Mil to Datsyuk to make sure that never happens!! LOL
So would I, but I'm sure it's either Russia or Detroit for Pavel after this contract.

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03-19-2013, 04:02 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
Something Something "Parity"
Something Something "We like our team"

The salary cap system will create many teams of equal talent levels. And the idea of having "super" teams and "basement" teams is a thing of the past. You tweak Florida and Buffalo a bit, and their teams are good again. You tweak the Rangers a bit and they go from first to ninth.
Pretty much. I think the better teams under the current system are the ones who are able to surround their top/star players with cost-effective talent. Can't really overpay for bottom 6 wingers, can't keep guys around past their prime by giving them that extra extension(Todd Bertuzzi, please pick up the white courtesy phone), and need to work in your young guys early enough to benefit from their lower ELC cap hits.

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03-19-2013, 06:48 PM
  #72
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I read an interview once where they asked Datsyuk why he took the money he did when he could have gotten more. He said something like "money isnt everything, I'd rather have a good team and win". If he comes back after this contract it is to win a Cup and I doubt he asks for 10mil.

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03-19-2013, 07:09 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by JDrake View Post
I'm in the other boat, I don't care what position it is, elite talent is worth elite money
And that's probably the right way to look at it. My problem is that I'm still trying to find a way of looking at salary structures and pay scales, and the closest I can think of right now is the late 90s, where centers and D got massive deals. Guys like Jagr still got huge deals, but the old man in me says Perry's no Jagr.

With the cap/floor system, you're probably just going to have to spend, though -especially if players continue to not hit free agency.

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You're not remembering incorrectly.

I think the only people willing to offer Parise $100m+ were a few message board posters (and maybe Paul Holmgren ). I don't remember hearing of any offers that high actually given to him.
I don't think you need the sarcasm smilie next to Holmgren.

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No, the other way around.
Wait, so Parise turned down money to pay Suter more?

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03-19-2013, 07:15 PM
  #74
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Wait, so Parise turned down money to pay Suter more?
Yes, he wanted them to have identical contracts.

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03-19-2013, 07:22 PM
  #75
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Yes, he wanted them to have identical contracts.
How cute.

And now Minnesota has to lie between them in that bed while they whisper and giggle and refuse to go to sleep.

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