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Rumor and Proposal Thread Vol. 8: The North Remembers

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:18 PM
  #76
stoff
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Originally Posted by ponokanocker View Post
For those suggesting dealing Whitney for a pick at the deadline, you are essentially telling the rest of your team that you are not trying for the playoffs this year. Unless you are trading other assets for another D immediately after the trade, you are sending a very poor message to your team.
Ya this is my dilemna. Would like to get an asset for him but you don't trade him when you're in a playoff push, especially if he is playing well. Ideally it would be like you said where we trade him but get a better dman in another deal.

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03-19-2013, 04:20 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by ponokanocker View Post
For those suggesting dealing Whitney for a pick at the deadline, you are essentially telling the rest of your team that you are not trying for the playoffs this year. Unless you are trading other assets for another D immediately after the trade, you are sending a very poor message to your team.
hes in a group with peckham, potter and fistric, and has only been the best of that group for 6 games or so, previous to that he was flat out the worst.

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03-19-2013, 04:23 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Koto View Post
hes in a group with peckham, potter and fistric, and has only been the best of that group for 6 games or so, previous to that he was flat out the worst.
If he continues to play well that's the message that is being sent, a bad one.

I

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:24 PM
  #79
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Your posts reek of pure ignorance. Calling me ignorant and racist is exactly what?


I will contest to the tenth degree that Eric or Jordan are much more complete players. I have watched him prior to this year. Interesting you simply look at his plus/minus as a direct reflection of his in your eyes seem selke caliber. Not too mention that you only reference The fans that have watched him for 20+ games versus Caps fans who learned his tendencies over the part of several seasons. That's purely laughable. I'm sure you could argue that ovechkin was also a complete player that didn't ride offensive strengths primarily with some of his plus/minus' in the past hey. Imagine Semin at centre? Not likely. In my opinion that would require far too much responsibility. And no it's not because he's Russian, last I checked Datsyuk is from the same country.

Parade your NHL fanboy love for Semin all you wish, just keep his playing style relevant. Hossa, really?

I'm not going off saying he is a liability but comparing his defensive play to actual selke candidates. If he was as complete as you seem to suggest why doesn't he contribute to the PK more frequently. Simply because its not his game. His work ethic or will is questionable at times as has been his back-checking which ironically can be used as a direct correlation here. Much the same as your cherry picked stat from this past season. In the same sense he can be effective defensively when he wants to be. He's a dangerous defender with his skill, speed and ability to pick the play. Consistency or his physicality are slightly questionable.

If your going to make racist implications I suggest you do some research first. History will say I have a habit of defending Russians not persecuting them for their national stereotypes.
Great post.

It's obvious the only Semin watching he has done, is watching the stat page on NHL.com.

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:28 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by President Van Buren View Post
Great post.

It's obvious the only Semin watching he has done, is watching the stat page on NHL.com.
Wow, that could've been a lot worse.

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:29 PM
  #81
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You don't want to trade Khabby because of lack of depth....but Schultz and Hemsky are disposable?



Yes for sure. Nick schultz stinks and is playing like a #6 dman on a team with bad defense. Hemsky is not in the teams long term plans it is as simple as that. We have skilled forwards and though I have always stuck up for Hemsky when others on here wanted to flay him it's better to deal him.

Perhaps you are assuming I am saying give them away ? No i am not. As for Khabby, who is going to be the back up if he gets dealt for a 5th rounder. Yan Denis one play away from being our starter?

Whitney, another guy I have stuck up for when people wanted him gone should also be traded now that there seems to be a market for Dmen and while he is playing well. He will fall back into the bad times sooner or later.

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:31 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by President Van Buren View Post
Great post.

It's obvious the only Semin watching he has done, is watching the stat page on NHL.com.
There was on thread on the main boards of Best Defensive Forwards outside of Datsyuk and alot of Carolina fans state he is great defensively and would pencil him into top 10 defensive forwards based on his play.

Now this may be biased but still noteworthy that a group of fans truly believe he is a top notch defensive forward.

To note none of these are my opinions as i haven't watched him enough to know how good he is defensively.

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:35 PM
  #83
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In terms of keeping Whitney and Smid, maybe it works out so that Smid is making what Whitney is making now, and Whitney makes what Smid is making now, as a general ballpark.

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:37 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by stoff View Post
There was on thread on the main boards of Best Defensive Forwards outside of Datsyuk and alot of Carolina fans state he is great defensively and would pencil him into top 10 defensive forwards based on his play.

Now this may be biased but still noteworthy that a group of fans truly believe he is a top notch defensive forward.

To note none of these are my opinions as i haven't watched him enough to know how good he is defensively.
That's an interesting observation on their part. He must have turned a temporary leaf. Hopefully he can solve it long term and eliminate his inconsistencies.

Like I said, he has the skill, speed and ability to pick a play as part of his repertoire. I don't think he's generally inclined to play a defensive or fully complete game as he's usually too high in his own zone looking for the offensive opportunity. Not say that when he wants to he can remove his man from the puck with quick lifts and using his elite hockey sense mixed with his speed to break-up the play.

Personally I would ask Capitals fans for more complete opinions of his play. For reasons I mentioned before. I can say I've watched him play a fairly solid share. The majority of his games in Washington and about six games of his on and off in Carolina this year. Exciting young team much the same as what drew me to watching the Caps in the past. He's a dangerous defender but not complete in the sense if premier shutdown ability.

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:39 PM
  #85
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Yes for sure. Nick schultz stinks and is playing like a #6 dman on a team with bad defense. Hemsky is not in the teams long term plans it is as simple as that. We have skilled forwards and though I have always stuck up for Hemsky when others on here wanted to flay him it's better to deal him.

Perhaps you are assuming I am saying give them away ? No i am not. As for Khabby, who is going to be the back up if he gets dealt for a 5th rounder. Yan Denis one play away from being our starter?
Whitney, another guy I have stuck up for when people wanted him gone should also be traded now that there seems to be a market for Dmen and while he is playing well. He will fall back into the bad times sooner or later.
You could either get the opposing team's backup back or Trade for Brian Boucher, Michael Leighton, Jose Theodore or Thomas Greiss, among others.

Seriously, it's not the end of the world, dealing Habby, especially if you can get something for him at this point. As for Hemsky and Schultz, you really only do it if it makes sense and/or if the Oilers are out of the hunt.

There are 7 games between now and the deadline, odds are that we'll all know one way or the other whether the Oilers are in the Hunt or not by that point.

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:48 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Like I said earlier I give him 2mil and that's it, take it or leave it. Unless he sticks around an plays lights out then maybe i bump it to 3mil. But it's one year deals. He made it sound like he wanted to be here so show it.

I just can't see many teams giving him much more, not with the cap going down.
I agree with a salary of $2.5 to $3M, I just don't think he will resign here for that.

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:35 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
You could either get the opposing team's backup back or Trade for Brian Boucher, Michael Leighton, Jose Theodore or Thomas Greiss, among others.

Seriously, it's not the end of the world, dealing Habby, especially if you can get something for him at this point. As for Hemsky and Schultz, you really only do it if it makes sense and/or if the Oilers are out of the hunt.

There are 7 games between now and the deadline, odds are that we'll all know one way or the other whether the Oilers are in the Hunt or not by that point.
Oh yay Khabby is easily replaceable, you just have to make sure you do it though and at this point anything we get for him will cost the same to get some other jag to back up, thus not worth it.

In the hunt or not they should be looking hard at deals for players that are simply not in the plans or playing above their heads. I don't think we will make any trades at all at the deadline.

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:01 PM
  #88
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After reading some posts regarding Whitney, I'd have to throw myself on the 'wait and see' bandwagon. Whitney's still fairly young, he's a presence in the locker room and is a legitimate Top-4 defenseman if he's confident and healthy.

The Oilers are going to move some bodies before the deadline - it's pretty much a given. But Whitney's trade value is pretty much an unknown at this moment. And IMO, if the Oilers are unable to grab a 1st, a near-ready prospect or a decent roster player for him, their best interest may be to hold onto him and try to resign him in the summer.

But just for kicks, are there any historians here that could point out any NHLers in recent history who took paycuts at age ~30 to stay with their current employer?

I'm certain Whitney's injury history falls into play, but if he's able to convince Oilers brass and their fans he's still the Ryan Whitney circa 2010, what's stopping him from asking for an extension or a raise?

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:05 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by belair View Post
After reading some posts regarding Whitney, I'd have to throw myself on the 'wait and see' bandwagon. Whitney's still fairly young, he's a presence in the locker room and is a legitimate Top-4 defenseman if he's confident and healthy.

The Oilers are going to move some bodies before the deadline - it's pretty much a given. But Whitney's trade value is pretty much an unknown at this moment. And IMO, if the Oilers are unable to grab a 1st, a near-ready prospect or a decent roster player for him, their best interest may be to hold onto him and try to resign him in the summer.

But just for kicks, are there any historians here that could point out any NHLers in recent history who took paycuts at age ~30 to stay with their current employer?

I'm certain Whitney's injury history falls into play, but if he's able to convince Oilers brass and their fans he's still the Ryan Whitney circa 2010, what's stopping him from asking for an extension or a raise?
How would he do that?


It would take me at least 2 years to start to have faith in that, because right now, i have no faith he can stay healthy for 2 years.

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:17 PM
  #90
belair
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How would he do that?


It would take me at least 2 years to start to have faith in that, because right now, i have no faith he can stay healthy for 2 years.
Score points and not **** up.

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:28 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by OilDrop37 View Post
Go to plan B, Cheechoo is never gonna happen, he's not an NHL player anymore.
Eh I don't know. I suppose he is never going to be. I have a hard time believing he could be any worse than:

Smyth, Jones, Hartikainen. If anything a 2way contract would suffice. Either way was just a quick fix idea for a hemsky gap while attempting 3 scoring lines.

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:45 PM
  #92
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Eh I don't know. I suppose he is never going to be. I have a hard time believing he could be any worse than:

Smyth, Jones, Hartikainen. If anything a 2way contract would suffice. Either way was just a quick fix idea for a hemsky gap while attempting 3 scoring lines.
I know where you're coming from. None of those guys have been a good fit with RNH and Eberle, it's been a glaring hole.

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:49 PM
  #93
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Say we go on a decent run in the next couple weeks and make the playoffs look viable.

How would the HF gang feel about trading this 'first pick in a loaded year' as the centerpiece in a package for a young D-man that's worth it. Say Zach Bogosian since we've been linked to him in a bunch of rumors through the years.

It's risky, no doubt--especially with the lotto the way it is now--but I think it's an encouragingly ballsy statement to the players: "We think you're good enough now, and we're getting you the help that will set you up to get into the playoffs. But the further you fall from making that goal, the more you screw the team over. Go win."

I can say with 98.678% certainty that MacTamblowe don't have the balls to do it, but I would be all for it personally *IF* the team shows the chops before D-Day.

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:53 PM
  #94
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Say we go on a decent run in the next couple weeks and make the playoffs look viable.

How would the HF gang feel about trading this 'first pick in a loaded year' as the centerpiece in a package for a young D-man that's worth it. Say Zach Bogosian since we've been linked to him in a bunch of rumors through the years.

It's risky, no doubt--especially with the lotto the way it is now--but I think it's an encouragingly ballsy statement to the players: "We think you're good enough now, and we're getting you the help that will set you up to get into the playoffs. But the further you fall from making that goal, the more you screw the team over. Go win."

I can say with 98.678% certainty that MacTamblowe don't have the balls to do it, but I would be all for it personally *IF* the team shows the chops before D-Day.
I wouldn't be opposed to trading the pick, but I think there would be a large disconnect between the kind of player we'd want in return, and the kind of player GMs are going to be willing to trade away.

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:59 PM
  #95
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With FLA looking toward the draft and all their UFA's or trade bait injured I wonder if the Oil could pry Kulikov out. I know long shot but would something like this not get laughed at.

Kulikov + Matthias

for

2013 1st + 2nd 13/14 + Schultz Sr. + Marincin

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Old
03-19-2013, 07:00 PM
  #96
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Score points and not **** up.
I see.... so do that for the next 20 games, and the previous two years of injury, inconsistent performances will all be forgotten?

Come on man.

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Old
03-19-2013, 07:05 PM
  #97
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Ya wasn't sure what to give up but if it it's hem sky +. Which I'd do I'd rather try and have a 3rd line that could be used as shutdown n chip in with little offense.

Foligno nuge eb
Hall gag yak
Prv horc jones
Petrel Belanger brown
I'd wait and see how the Capital's struggles fall out. To me Brooks Laich would be a great addition. He's big, hits hard and can play with good players. Last year in the playoffs he was the only Capital player that showed up. Plus if things keep going sideways in DC there might be a chance to get him for a reasonable price.

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Old
03-19-2013, 07:15 PM
  #98
Jimmi Jenkins
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Originally Posted by dixs35 View Post
With FLA looking toward the draft and all their UFA's or trade bait injured I wonder if the Oil could pry Kulikov out. I know long shot but would something like this not get laughed at.

Kulikov + Matthias

for

2013 1st + 2nd 13/14 + Schultz Sr. + Marincin
I'd really want to grab Kopesky(sp) too, really nice fit as a big body in the top-9.

Maybe include Lander back the other way as well.


Last edited by Jimmi Jenkins: 03-19-2013 at 07:22 PM.
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Old
03-19-2013, 07:23 PM
  #99
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I see.... so do that for the next 20 games, and the previous two years of injury, inconsistent performances will all be forgotten?

Come on man.
I'm not the one trying to convice you, brah.

I've clearly pointed out his injury and am very well aware of his excruciatingly slow return to form. But if you're so certain that our management comes out on top in negotiations, could you at least point out a couple guys at his age that take a paycut for his team?

It doesn't happen often.

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Old
03-19-2013, 07:24 PM
  #100
dixs35
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I'd really want to grab Kopesky(sp) too, really nice fit as a big body in the top-9.
I added Matthias because I've always like him and think he would fit well with the Oil going forward. He could play bottom 6 easily and may be able to play 2nd in a pinch but he looks to be expendable with the youth coming up at the C position in FLA. I don't think they move Kopecky but he is 31 so you never know. He is the type of guy who would look good playing middle 6 LW though.

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