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Old
03-19-2013, 05:16 PM
  #76
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You know, I don't know too much about French Candiens or their politics/culture/demographics, but I can tell you this. Their passion and drive, especially the passion, hooked me as a fan of the Habs over 30 years ago. Hard to explain. Even felt good during the rough times. Glad to be a part of it. Just my .02
Uh, cool. Thanks, I guess?

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03-19-2013, 05:22 PM
  #77
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Uh, cool. Thanks, I guess?
Long time fan getting mushy after seeing the video. The passion and drive rings true for me. That's why I became a fan. It is still there! LOVE IT!!!

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03-19-2013, 06:31 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Yes I think if Gauthier was still in charge Galchenyuk would be on the Habs because he EARNED his spot.
Gauthier

The worst GM in Montreal ever..........even worse than Houle.

Why try to rehab Gauthier? He was inept and pathetic.

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03-19-2013, 07:04 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
I understand where people are coming from with this, but my point is; more likely than not, the salary cap will once again go up dramatically after the 2013-2014 season. We'll then have Subban signed under 3M for next season, where the cap is projected to go down, allowing us to use the money to improve the team in other areas. Then, in 2013-2014, as the cap is projected to increase, you can get PK signed to his long-term deal.

Could it cost us a little more in the end? Yeah. But it might be worth it if it's the price to pay to keep improving this team year after year.
I see your point, but that's plain bad management IMO.

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Old
03-19-2013, 11:27 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
So in other words 2 top-4 D-man, a top-6 forward, and an elite 3rd line C. Which is more than the top-9 forward, 4th line forward, and bottom pairing D-man that MB added.

I've been one of Eller bigger fans/promoters the past few seasons, and yet I don't think I've ever seen him labelled as an "elite 3rd line C" until now, from myself included.


"2 top-4 dmen"...
I count only 1 dman in our top-6 that PG brought to the organization, unless you count Emelin, who was property of the team before he took over. while there was fear he'd decide to stay in Russia, signing a player who is team property & who decides he wants to play in the NHL isn't exactly a genius move...
but even if one grants that, Emelin/Diaz sit 4th/5th in TOI/G... FYI

& be honest now, were you singing the praises of landing "top-6 fwd" Bourque last spring?

he's had a good 17-game start to this year before getting hurt, but if you've followed his career at all, you'd know that he's notorious for looking like a solid top-6 player in stretches, and looking like a borderline NHLer at other times, as he did last year.


MB has had a few months to run the team, in that span he's made minor moves that have paid big dividends. Where Gauthier seemed completely oblivious to the impact/value of culture & environment in building his roster, MB seems to understand that finding the right mix is just as or more important than simply adding random pieces... and that character matters a ton, at every level of the organization.

- allowing room for young players to earn roster spots
- hiring a coach with the ability/willingness to hold veterans accountable & who appreciates the importance of emotionally managing his young players
- FINALLY bringing in a player willing to stick up for teammates & who can play regular minutes
- making moves that fit into a broader plan/vision, rather than playing EA sports GM and adding parts based on short-term needs & statistical "fits" (how else can anyone explain the Kaberle trade?)

MB has had a big impact without having to make big moves... and the team is making the most of the talent in the locker room.

under Gauthier's leadership, the team was playing well below expectations, and his bigger moves mostly blew up in our faces, leading to last year's season long cluster-*******

i haven't agreed with all of MB's decisions, but beyond the obvious compelling impact of the teams results and overall attitude, his decisions at least offer the kind of cohesion and consistency that was completely lacking under PG's watch.


Last edited by Miller Time: 03-20-2013 at 08:06 AM.
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Old
03-20-2013, 10:28 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
I've been one of Eller bigger fans/promoters the past few seasons, and yet I don't think I've ever seen him labelled as an "elite 3rd line C" until now, from myself included.


"2 top-4 dmen"...
I count only 1 dman in our top-6 that PG brought to the organization, unless you count Emelin, who was property of the team before he took over. while there was fear he'd decide to stay in Russia, signing a player who is team property & who decides he wants to play in the NHL isn't exactly a genius move...
but even if one grants that, Emelin/Diaz sit 4th/5th in TOI/G... FYI

& be honest now, were you singing the praises of landing "top-6 fwd" Bourque last spring?

he's had a good 17-game start to this year before getting hurt, but if you've followed his career at all, you'd know that he's notorious for looking like a solid top-6 player in stretches, and looking like a borderline NHLer at other times, as he did last year.


MB has had a few months to run the team, in that span he's made minor moves that have paid big dividends. Where Gauthier seemed completely oblivious to the impact/value of culture & environment in building his roster, MB seems to understand that finding the right mix is just as or more important than simply adding random pieces... and that character matters a ton, at every level of the organization.

- allowing room for young players to earn roster spots
- hiring a coach with the ability/willingness to hold veterans accountable & who appreciates the importance of emotionally managing his young players
- FINALLY bringing in a player willing to stick up for teammates & who can play regular minutes
- making moves that fit into a broader plan/vision, rather than playing EA sports GM and adding parts based on short-term needs & statistical "fits" (how else can anyone explain the Kaberle trade?)

MB has had a big impact without having to make big moves... and the team is making the most of the talent in the locker room.

under Gauthier's leadership, the team was playing well below expectations, and his bigger moves mostly blew up in our faces, leading to last year's season long cluster-*******

i haven't agreed with all of MB's decisions, but beyond the obvious compelling impact of the teams results and overall attitude, his decisions at least offer the kind of cohesion and consistency that was completely lacking under PG's watch.
I don't want to turn this thread into a Gauthier vs Bergevin, but as you said MB has turned this team into a contender without making any big moves. To me that says the core that Gainey and Gauthier built must have been pretty good. Gauthier wasn't a great GM by any stretch, but he gets way more hate then is warranted.

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:32 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
The worst GM in Montreal ever..........even worse than Houle.
Errr..no. I'm going to have to disagree there.

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Old
03-29-2013, 02:15 AM
  #83
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Just asking if anyone else thinks Marc Bergevin is a soft GM. It doesn't mean just cause he added a guy like Prust, does it still make him soft. Prust is no GOON or HEAVYWEIGHT that the Habs desperate need.

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03-29-2013, 04:45 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by VilleEmardHabs View Post
Just asking if anyone else thinks Marc Bergevin is a soft GM. It doesn't mean just cause he added a guy like Prust, does it still make him soft. Prust is no GOON or HEAVYWEIGHT that the Habs desperate need.
you sound like this bud kid.

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03-29-2013, 08:43 AM
  #85
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He wasn't a soft player, don't see why he would be a soft GM. Prust might not be a "heavy weight" but he's the type of player we would never have added under Goat and Martin.

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03-29-2013, 09:27 AM
  #86
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Sure, but doesn't change the fact that 3 of the habs top5 d-men and 5 players of the top 9 were acquired under Gauthier and Gainey. The team is mostly composed of players they brought it in, whether or not you agreed with what they did during tenure does nothing to change that fact.

But the thing is that with those same players under Gauthier's leadership finished 28th.

Gauthier's tenure is not just a mishandling of players, draft picks, coaching staff & prospects.

Every GM - even Milbury - when they leave a team leave it with some assets. No one - not even Milbury - is so incompetent that they empty out the team.

So basically with the same team that played for Gauthier, Bergevin added a Prust, Armstrong & Bouillon. Of those three not one is really an impact player although an argument can be made for Prust. He also added Gallagher & Gally. You really think those five players are the difference between the Habs at 28th overall and the Habs at 3rd overall?

No, this becomes Bergevin's team because chances are under Gauthier this team would have improved a little - maybe even made the playoffs but would not have had the turn around that Bergevin brought in. Bergevin changed the culture & the attitude. Take a look at the way this team plays, I've not been this excited to watch a Habs game in decades.

Bergevin has a plan, a vision, a goal. Gauthier had nothing except 20 years working in the NHL and never accomplishing anything. He made one move after another with no reason or rhyme. With Bergevin's every move you see there is a logic at work.

I've said it a number of times and I'll say it again, with Timmins as your head scout a mediocre GM could have built a very respectable team. Only incompetent GMs like Gainey & Gauthier could have bumbled their way through the 10 years they were here. And nothing in their record convinces me they would have changed. Apparently, Molson was of the same mind. Cause he booted them out the door. Timmins was here with Gainey & Gauthier why wasn't he as effective in 10 years under them as he has been in 3/4s of a year under Bergevin. Because Beregvin knows how to place his staff in positions where they will win.

So Eller, Bourque, Markov etc may have been Gauthier's guys but he didn't know how to use them properly. Bergevin took over and changed the players and/or the culture surrounding these players and placed them in positions where they would shine. For that reason, this is Bergevin's team and in no effing way does it belong to Gainey or Gauthier.

And this is coming from someone who was not sold on Bergevin or Therrien when they were hired. They have completely convinced me they are the best things that happened to the Habs in decades.

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03-29-2013, 09:30 AM
  #87
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I say we trade him while he still has value.



LOL!! nice one Marc

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Old
03-29-2013, 10:03 AM
  #88
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I was upset at him for the hamilton fallout but they had key injuries. I think he did a great job of adding depth in prust boullion and armstrong.

I think his ryder trade was a good one. He freed cap space for next year. Added a player that puts up the same amount of points and got a 3rd rounder.

So far he has done well it is now the future to tell if he can keep it up. Although I don't see him making the team finish 1st for ever.

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03-29-2013, 10:06 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
But the thing is that with those same players under Gauthier's leadership finished 28th.

Gauthier's tenure is not just a mishandling of players, draft picks, coaching staff & prospects.

Every GM - even Milbury - when they leave a team leave it with some assets. No one - not even Milbury - is so incompetent that they empty out the team.

So basically with the same team that played for Gauthier, Bergevin added a Prust, Armstrong & Bouillon. Of those three not one is really an impact player although an argument can be made for Prust. He also added Gallagher & Gally. You really think those five players are the difference between the Habs at 28th overall and the Habs at 3rd overall?

No, this becomes Bergevin's team because chances are under Gauthier this team would have improved a little - maybe even made the playoffs but would not have had the turn around that Bergevin brought in. Bergevin changed the culture & the attitude. Take a look at the way this team plays, I've not been this excited to watch a Habs game in decades.

Bergevin has a plan, a vision, a goal. Gauthier had nothing except 20 years working in the NHL and never accomplishing anything. He made one move after another with no reason or rhyme. With Bergevin's every move you see there is a logic at work.

I've said it a number of times and I'll say it again, with Timmins as your head scout a mediocre GM could have built a very respectable team. Only incompetent GMs like Gainey & Gauthier could have bumbled their way through the 10 years they were here. And nothing in their record convinces me they would have changed. Apparently, Molson was of the same mind. Cause he booted them out the door. Timmins was here with Gainey & Gauthier why wasn't he as effective in 10 years under them as he has been in 3/4s of a year under Bergevin. Because Beregvin knows how to place his staff in positions where they will win.

So Eller, Bourque, Markov etc may have been Gauthier's guys but he didn't know how to use them properly. Bergevin took over and changed the players and/or the culture surrounding these players and placed them in positions where they would shine. For that reason, this is Bergevin's team and in no effing way does it belong to Gainey or Gauthier.

And this is coming from someone who was not sold on Bergevin or Therrien when they were hired. They have completely convinced me they are the best things that happened to the Habs in decades.
I really like the way you put this, because you've figured out that a GM is never all of one thing or none of the other. Gauthier and Gainey made a series of bad gambles and were weak on asset management. This doesn't make them incompetent, because at the same time - as others have noted - they had success in bringing in a fair amount of players who are on our current roster. So good on them for 'okay-ing' some of our studs (even if Timmins found 'em); bad on them for dumping so many other players for so little and for the many knee-jerk band-aid trades that crippled our salary cap.

But as we're seeing, success is so much more than names and stats on paper. Like you said, once you have the horses, it's the 'culture' of a team that either allows them to thrive or beats down their spirit. Players want to play for a GM and coach who exude vision and passion; other GMs want to trade with a GM who's personable and who they like hangin' with; free-agents want to sign with a GM and coach who are committed to a strategy of success. That's a quality Bergevin brings that Gauthier couldn't touch. Sure, it's easier for Bergevin to build slowly when the Habs are suddenly doing so well, but it's impossible to suggest that this sudden success has nothing to do with the guy doing the building.

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03-29-2013, 11:12 AM
  #90
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MB has made some nice moves, but I think the big thing he has done is he no longer has the organization run by 1 guy, ala BG and PG...he has a committee of people, to help him out...Lapointe, Briser, Mellanby etc and these are all guys who know how things should work...

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03-29-2013, 11:21 AM
  #91
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MB has made some nice moves, but I think the big thing he has done is he no longer has the organization run by 1 guy, ala BG and PG...he has a committee of people, to help him out...Lapointe, Briser, Mellanby etc and these are all guys who know how things should work...
Absolutely. The smartest guys are the ones who know when they're not the smartest guys.

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03-29-2013, 11:49 AM
  #92
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MB has made some nice moves, but I think the big thing he has done is he no longer has the organization run by 1 guy, ala BG and PG...he has a committee of people, to help him out...Lapointe, Briser, Mellanby etc and these are all guys who know how things should work...
But this should be no surprise. Bergevin said it at his first PC. He was a team guy and wanted to put to together a team of competent people.

And looking back at it, it makes sense. The NHL is a 30 team league, each team has an AHL team and then is affiliated with an ECHL team. Hockey has become international and is so vast you need a team of hockey minds to keep track of everything. How can one GM with an assistant and a pro scout do all the things that are needed. That's why Gauthier & Gainey were a hit or miss team. They were saving Molson peanut salaries by not having a team of experts but doing all the work themselves and doing a piss poor job of it.

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03-30-2013, 01:52 AM
  #93
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i wanna get a MB chicago jersey to wear at games.

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03-30-2013, 03:42 AM
  #94
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Before every season Gauthier kept repeating that he had reserved optimism for the canadiens. That he was hoping to see the team make the playoffs but that since only teams with 99pts or more usually win the cup, his first priority was to see the team in a few years be able to be in a good position to win the cup.



At 0:28, at 1:00 and at 3:15

Gauthier didn't care about what was going with the players or the staff, he only saw the numbers behind the team.

As a GM you shouldn't go out there and tell everyone that you have 'reserved' optimism for your team, especially when you're coming out of the PO and almost beaten the Boston bruins in overtime of game 7.

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03-30-2013, 09:19 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Gauthier

The worst GM in Montreal ever..........even worse than Houle.

Why try to rehab Gauthier? He was inept and pathetic.
Compare Gauthier who was there for a year to Houle's 1995-2000 era is kind of unfair.
  • Gauthier was left with Pouliot, Darche and Halpern competing for a top-6 spot.
  • Houle had Bure, Kovalenko, Savage, Stevenson and Brunet competing for a top-6 spot when he started as a GM...
We don't understand everything from the Gauthier era.
There is a lot of information missing here.

There may have been a conscious decision to tank from Hab's upper management (all the way up?).
We already know for sure that firing a NHL coach and replacing him by a coach with no NHL experience is a sure way to thank (I read a study (behind the net?) years ago about this).

Remember that those decisions happened after understanding that:
  • Markov was not coming back this season;
  • Gionta was injured long term;
  • Gomez was having the worst slump of his career;
  • Weber was not developing enough to allow us to give him top-4 minutes;
  • Moen was injured;
  • The Gomez, Gionta, Cammy experiment was failing to bring us as a top-10 SC contender;
  • Etc.

So instead of a top-9 + fourth line, we had a top-4 (DD, MaxPac, Cole and Plek) and 8 bottom-6 players (including Eller (28 points), Bourque (24 points) and Moen (16 points)).

This season, our 10th player, Prust should get 27 points (9 points / 27 * 75).
This is the same pace as our 5th player last season.
To put things in perspective: despite playing only 48 games, Moen was our 7th best forward. This season, he is 12th. So 5 players were able to out-produce Moen.

Maybe this post is not organized properly or the arguments are not strong enough.

Just saying that I have a feeling that there was some kind of decision to tank during last season.
Firing Martin was the first step toward getting Gally...

We may never know or it will take years or decades before the truth is revealed.

It is also possible that Gauthier did panic.
  • He fired Pearns in November (I think);
  • Fired Martin on Dec 17th;
  • Trade Cammy (Jan 12th) in the middle off a game;

Not sure we have all elements to understand this whole transition from Gainey to Bergevin...

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03-30-2013, 09:57 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by VilleEmardHabs View Post
Just asking if anyone else thinks Marc Bergevin is a soft GM. It doesn't mean just cause he added a guy like Prust, does it still make him soft. Prust is no GOON or HEAVYWEIGHT that the Habs desperate need.
I'm sorry we desperately need a goon. Since whe do goons win you 21 games.before I forget the days of the goons are finished so please stop it with mtl needs a goon we don't Detroit has won plenty of cups without havin goon.
I'm fed up of hearing people say we need a heavyweight we don't what we need is four lines to play hard and score goals and well be fine

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03-31-2013, 05:38 PM
  #97
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http://m.publishing.rogers.com/sport...bergervin.html

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03-31-2013, 05:41 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Gauthier

The worst GM in Montreal ever..........even worse than Houle.

Why try to rehab Gauthier? He was inept and pathetic.
Nope. No way.

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03-31-2013, 09:59 PM
  #99
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great story on Bergevin..... thanks

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04-01-2013, 08:00 AM
  #100
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This trade deadline will be a huge assessment for the rookie GM.

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