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Alain Vigneault/coaching discussion thread - Part 4

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:55 PM
  #726
7thGuest
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Did anyone catch this tweet from Jeff Paterson, quoting AV?

#Canucks AV: 'this chemistry is different from others for so many reasons I don't want to get into right now. But it's a different group'

Wonder what AV meant by saying "chemistry is different". Is the absence of Kesler affecting team chemistry as well??

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:56 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
A legit NHL *HEALTHY* blueline and two ****'in starting goalies - regardless of the crap they have up front (and at least our #1 line is playing like a good NHL #1 line) - should be playing better than this. It's not just about the wins & losses; they plain don't show up to at least show the possibility of winning a game far too many nights. That's on AV. The fact AV got dealt a bad hand is on Gillis.
Yeah Gillis has made mistakes but it's not like AV is holding 2-7 offsuit. It's more like A-9 or a low pair.

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03-19-2013, 05:56 PM
  #728
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^ oh i am not saying Gillis isn't at fault here. Thedifference between a good and bad coach is how they deal with the card they are dealt. Anyone can win with a full house.

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:57 PM
  #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thGuest View Post
Did anyone catch this tweet from Jeff Paterson, quoting AV?

#Canucks AV: 'this chemistry is different from others for so many reasons I don't want to get into right now. But it's a different group'

Wonder what AV meant by saying "chemistry is different". Is the absence of Kesler affecting team chemistry as well??
more like "i am running out of excuses"

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:57 PM
  #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thGuest View Post
Did anyone catch this tweet from Jeff Paterson, quoting AV?

#Canucks AV: 'this chemistry is different from others for so many reasons I don't want to get into right now. But it's a different group'

Wonder what AV meant by saying "chemistry is different". Is the absence of Kesler affecting team chemistry as well??
Kesler, while he might have been playing injured, wasn't absent last season. Not an excuse as we're seeing the same lazy, uninspired play from the team (only there isn't the talent left for them to get by on that alone - and the goaltending can only prop them up so long).

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03-19-2013, 05:58 PM
  #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thGuest View Post
Did anyone catch this tweet from Jeff Paterson, quoting AV?

#Canucks AV: 'this chemistry is different from others for so many reasons I don't want to get into right now. But it's a different group'

Wonder what AV meant by saying "chemistry is different". Is the absence of Kesler affecting team chemistry as well??
When a coach starts talking like this about his team, you know the leash he has is getting shorter and shorter.

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:59 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Sorry, but I'd rather have Hank over any two of those guys there - even with Kesler out for the balance of the season.

And you're not addressing the fact the Leafs have two goalies that are sophmores. I'll take two starting goalies + so-called weaker #2-#4 centers. Blueline is a wash - though they shouldn't be on paper since Gardiner has been out for a far longer time than Bieksa.


Gillis gets the blame for not giving us a Cup contending team.
AV gets the blame for us having a team that has difficulty beating *lottery pick teams*.
I am only addressing the center position because i think it is the cause of all the other problems. We have had problems the last two years but still won the President's Trophy so they were not structural problems. This year's problem is. We do not have enough NHL centers. If the other team has a large advantage at center you will not make up that difference by slight advantages at d and goalie. Especially when much of that advantage is with the backup goalie and an overpaid 6 or 7th dman. The team is structured poorly. Kesler coming back and not breaking his foot in his third game will help as would the pickup of another NHL centericeman. You can hide people on the wing. You cannot hide players at center they have the puck more then other forwards, and they play more d fense than other forwards. I hate talking about faceoffs by obviously when you suck at them it affects your team's pp and pk. AV is the same coach as always. I think he is fine, i disagree with his use of goalies, and his use of dmen, but i cannot complain about his use of centers as he has no options.

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:03 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
When a coach starts talking like this about his team, you know the leash he has is getting shorter and shorter.
In that same press conference he also started going into a whole bunch of statistics about how many chances they generated. It was like when he went on 1040 after he got re-signed and went on about all his coaching records and whatnot. I think he knows his time here is done.

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:04 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
I am only addressing the center position because i think it is the cause of all the other problems. We have had problems the last two years but still won the President's Trophy so they were not structural problems. This year's problem is. We do not have enough NHL centers. If the other team has a large advantage at center you will not make up that difference by slight advantages at d and goalie. Especially when much of that advantage is with the backup goalie and an overpaid 6 or 7th dman. The team is structured poorly. Kesler coming back and not breaking his foot in his third game will help as would the pickup of another NHL centericeman. You can hide people on the wing. You cannot hide players at center they have the puck more then other forwards, and they play more d fense than other forwards. I hate talking about faceoffs by obviously when you suck at them it affects your team's pp and pk. AV is the same coach as always. I think he is fine, i disagree with his use of goalies, and his use of dmen, but i cannot complain about his use of centers as he has no options.
Sorry, we're not losing most games because we're outclassed talent-wise (not talking about us playing "powerhouse clubs" obviously) but we're being outworked by teams at least on the same talent level (or worse). That isn't acceptable. Players aren't blameless but that's one of the main jobs of the coach - to get the most of what he has.

Our blueline & goaltending have never been better (depthwise/talentwise/healthwise) - on paper. But would you regard those as strengths right now? I wouldn't.

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:04 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
In that same press conference he also started going into a whole bunch of statistics about how many chances they generated. It was like when he went on 1040 after he got re-signed and went on about all his coaching records and whatnot. I think he knows his time here is done.
Did anyone bring up Backstrom's quote about how they were all easy shots from the perimeter?

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03-19-2013, 06:05 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
I am only addressing the center position because i think it is the cause of all the other problems. We have had problems the last two years but still won the President's Trophy so they were not structural problems. This year's problem is. We do not have enough NHL centers. If the other team has a large advantage at center you will not make up that difference by slight advantages at d and goalie. Especially when much of that advantage is with the backup goalie and an overpaid 6 or 7th dman. The team is structured poorly. Kesler coming back and not breaking his foot in his third game will help as would the pickup of another NHL centericeman. You can hide people on the wing. You cannot hide players at center they have the puck more then other forwards, and they play more d fense than other forwards. I hate talking about faceoffs by obviously when you suck at them it affects your team's pp and pk. AV is the same coach as always. I think he is fine, i disagree with his use of goalies, and his use of dmen, but i cannot complain about his use of centers as he has no options.
Except we didn't even try to carry 4 centers for several games there and instead experimented with wingers at center. I would forgive this if we tried using the centers we had, and in the positions each one is suited for and it failed miserably. But we have yet to do that.

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:05 PM
  #737
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Did anyone bring up Backstrom's quote about how they were all easy shots from the perimeter?
No, did he really say something like that?

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:07 PM
  #738
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If the centre group is so poor, why not take advantage of Schroeder having a good game and play him with your 2nd line wingers? Schroeder's chance differential yesterday was 5-0 (best on the team by a wide margin).

Still doesn't address the troubles with the current system that everyone defending AV seems to just skirt around.

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:09 PM
  #739
Barney Gumble
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If the centre group is so poor, why not take advantage of Schroeder having a good game and play him with your 2nd line wingers? Schroeder's chance differential yesterday was 5-0.
You mean like Carlyle's use of Kadri (another rookie).....

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03-19-2013, 06:28 PM
  #740
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If the centre group is so poor, why not take advantage of Schroeder having a good game and play him with your 2nd line wingers? Schroeder's chance differential yesterday was 5-0 (best on the team by a wide margin).

Still doesn't address the troubles with the current system that everyone defending AV seems to just skirt around.
This could be true but Scheoder has had plenty of "good games" where he did not show up on the scoreboard. Maybe AV thought he was having a good game vs. the other teams 4th line and with two bigger wingers so did not want to change that. Ebbet is weaker defensively but has a better nose for the net, so seems more likely to produce offense. In the moment of truth Schoeder does the button curl and looks for a trailer, which has not worked this year. I think Schoeder will develop into a useable NHL center but he is not there yet.

Not everyone is defending AV, it is probably a minority. and Yes the center group is that poor. Which Center has the most points behind Henrik? I do not know either. There is a bunch of them around 5. So yes we have Henrik than 3 equivalent 20 point center ice men. Who make approx 1.1milion 800k adn 500k a piece and none of them are playing above their salary. I will say AV is not getting the max out of this team if you and Barney will say we are below average at centerice and that centerice is obviously the most important forward position so we should expect average results at best with this weakness.

Kadri has 25 points this year, if AV can get a 5 (20) point center ice man to become a 25(70) point man he deserves the Jack Adams Trophy. Perhaps Kadri is a better player than the three centers we are using right now.


Last edited by Catamarca Livin: 03-19-2013 at 06:31 PM. Reason: leafs
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Old
03-19-2013, 06:31 PM
  #741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
No, did he really say something like that?
In so many words.

Quote:
Kevin Woodley ‏@KevinisInGoal
As happy as #Canucks seem w/ chances generated worth noting Nik Backstrom found it relatively easy, saying saw everything + rebounds cleared

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:55 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
This was said at 9:15 on the Sekeres and Price podcast. He also went on to say that he thinks everyone is trying really hard and that everything will fall into place. So no, folks, he has no plan.
Thank you for the link.

I would not take from that quote that he has no plan myself. The game plan from last night, in the first half at least, seemed to be different from earlier in the season, IMO anyway, also a blind man could see the changes to the PP.

Edit, Man I am glad I listened to that, I have no idea how it could be said he is blaming players and "calling them out". he actually says "if you look at our team we have great goal tending and [that's what] we have to get"

And the earlier quote about goal tending needing to be better then the other team, was in relation to what needs to be done to win tonight, not why have we been in a losing slump.


Last edited by Stories Tales Lies: 03-19-2013 at 07:18 PM.
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Old
03-19-2013, 06:58 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by Finkle is Einhorn View Post
In so many words.
Quote:
Kevin Woodley ‏@KevinisInGoal
As happy as #Canucks seem w/ chances generated worth noting Nik Backstrom found it relatively easy, saying saw everything + rebounds cleared
Hehe, to be fair, some of the shots he was screened, so he did not see them at all, how could he know they even happened.

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03-19-2013, 07:11 PM
  #744
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AV is just rehashing **** so his team can bail him out again...unfortunately, things have soured.

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03-19-2013, 08:08 PM
  #745
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#fireav

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03-19-2013, 08:18 PM
  #746
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#saveav
#keepav

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:13 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
I will say AV is not getting the max out of this team if you and Barney will say we are below average at centerice
no one is happy with the collection of centers in the lineup, but that doesn't let av off the hook.

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03-19-2013, 10:22 PM
  #748
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#fireav
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#saveav
#keepav

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Old
03-20-2013, 12:03 AM
  #749
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Typical AV "defend the lead" coaching again in the 3rd period today.

Thank god we managed to escape with a "W".

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03-20-2013, 12:04 AM
  #750
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Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
I will say AV is not getting the max out of this team if you and Barney will say we are below average at centerice and that centerice is obviously the most important forward position so we should expect average results at best with this weakness.
You missed addressing my point - the strengths of this team should be defense & goaltending - at least on paper given it's health/depth/talent level.

Sure, we're weak/awful down the middle after Hank; but again, would you describe the strength of our team as a whole this season it's blueline & goaltending?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
Kadri has 25 points this year, if AV can get a 5 (20) point center ice man to become a 25(70) point man he deserves the Jack Adams Trophy. Perhaps Kadri is a better player than the three centers we are using right now.
Kadri's AHL coach ripped him a new hole this off-season. Carlyle stuck with the player and put him into a position to succeed (though he's still a lousy face-off man). Perhaps AV should've given Schroeder a longer look with Raymond considering according to you, AV had no other viable center options. The line at least, while not putting up enough points, wasn't getting destroyed defensively.


Last edited by Barney Gumble: 03-20-2013 at 12:13 AM.
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