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UFC 158: St. Pierre vs Diaz

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03-19-2013, 10:04 PM
  #651
BGDDYKWL
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
It is GSP's fault. Isn't that obvious? He's better than everyone else and can do whatever he wants in there. He'll take Diaz, Condit, and Alves down because he doesn't want to stand with them. He'll also keep the fight standing against Shields and Koscheck because he doesn't want to grapple with them. But he doesn't take the next step and try to finish his opponents. He doesn't want to take any chances and is okay with just picking up a decision win. He could have taken Diaz's back a number of times and tried a submission but decided to just hold onto him on the ground. Koscheck couldn't see out of one eye for 3 or 4 rounds but GSP stood on the outside and threw jabs for the entire fight.
Diaz admittedly didn't train his wrestling much for this fight. That is entirely his own fault. And very dumb. Koscheck stood at distance with GSP the entire fight, and he was the one losing on the cards. Shouldn't he try to close the distance and actually land something? Shields is a boring fighter so no shock him and GSP wasn't going to be a barn burner. I guess what really bothers me is other fighters complaining about GSP's style. If you don't like it, then do something about it.

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Imagine if Jon Jones stood on the outside for 25 minutes and just kept throwing jabs because he has a ridiculous reach advantage. A lot of the people defending GSP here would be calling for Jones' head. Lets not even get started on the criticism Anderson would take. Those two are better than everyone else in their division and they go out and finish almost every single one of their fights. GSP can do it as well but he just chooses not to.
This is where we disagree. I don't think he can. Maia has subbed one guy in his last 11 fights, so I don't think GSP's gonna be pulling off a bunch of subs anytime soon. So that leaves finishing a guy with strikes. GSP doesn't have big time power. He doesn't have anywhere near the ability to finish fights that Jones and Anderson do. And in that he's such a good wrestler he's on top of guys a lot of the time. Very tough to finish guys just with ground and pound in this day and age. Only chance we'll ever see GSP with that real killer/finishing instinct is if Hendricks beats him. Personally I don't even think that would do it.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:24 PM
  #652
Gene Parmesan
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Carlos Condit
Cub Swanson
Donald Cerrone
Jon Jones
Andrei Arlovski

Damn point fighters.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:38 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
How does your theory fit with Greg Jackson cornering Carlos Condit? or Cerrone?

GSP has fought the strategic way since he first lost the title to Serra. The problem is the fights not being the most exciting comes because GSP's opponents do not expect him to be so good at what he does (see Shields, Condit, and Diaz' post-fight interviews). They expect to able to stop his jabs and his takedowns or be able to sweep from the bottom position. When they get in the octagon and actually experience how good GSP is they often appear at a loss of what to do, and then proceed to fight safely in the hope that GSP will give them an opening to exploit. As we have seen, those opportunities are very rare.


Last edited by Frank the Tank: 03-19-2013 at 10:44 PM.
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Old
03-20-2013, 01:22 AM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
Carlos Condit
Cub Swanson
Donald Cerrone
Jon Jones
Andrei Arlovski

Damn point fighters.

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Old
03-20-2013, 01:25 AM
  #655
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Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
How does your theory fit with Greg Jackson cornering Carlos Condit? or Cerrone?

GSP has fought the strategic way since he first lost the title to Serra. The problem is the fights not being the most exciting comes because GSP's opponents do not expect him to be so good at what he does (see Shields, Condit, and Diaz' post-fight interviews). They expect to able to stop his jabs and his takedowns or be able to sweep from the bottom position. When they get in the octagon and actually experience how good GSP is they often appear at a loss of what to do, and then proceed to fight safely in the hope that GSP will give them an opening to exploit. As we have seen, those opportunities are very rare.
I would say instead of fighting safely, his opponents have no answer. They are dominated. GSP is the one controlling the fight, where it goes and pretty much everything else.

Who are we to say he should be taking chances and possibly getting ko'd or subbed from opening up or being too careless chasing the ko or sub himself?

I guess it is the fans paying the money, so maybe they do/should have a say?

Its an interesting question.

There is no doubt that GSP has been fighting "safe". That cant really be debated at this point.

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03-20-2013, 02:36 AM
  #656
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Yeah Guida is usually boring..hes only entertaining when he gets his ass kicked. No one is disputing GSP fights safe but solely attribute that to Greg Jackson is unfair to the many other fighters of his that are killers.

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03-20-2013, 03:04 AM
  #657
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I'm not sure if its so much safe or him just using his strengths. He's without a doubt the best grappler in his weight class so he uses it. That's his bread and butter, the same way JDS uses his boxing, ones just more exciting. Why on earth should he risk losing everything he has earned just so fans won't think he's boring? People need to get over it. Wrestling and grappling is a big part of mma and GSP is dominant in that aspect. He's not going to change his style for you. And to the guy who said he didn't attempt to take Diaz' back, that's false, he tried multiple times, but Diaz defended well, Diaz is a very good BJJ fighter too you know, he defended well in that aspect, just couldn't handle the jabs and wrestling.

Just to add to the first point, that's like saying JDS should openly jump in someone like Werdums guard or pull guard on Cain just because he's one dimensional.

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03-20-2013, 03:14 AM
  #658
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I'm not sure if its so much safe or him just using his strengths. He's without a doubt the best grappler in his weight class so he uses it. That's his bread and butter, the same way JDS uses his boxing, ones just more exciting. Why on earth should he risk losing everything he has earned just so fans won't think he's boring? People need to get over it. Wrestling and grappling is a big part of mma and GSP is dominant in that aspect. He's not going to change his style for you. And to the guy who said he didn't attempt to take Diaz' back, that's false, he tried multiple times, but Diaz defended well, Diaz is a very good BJJ fighter too you know, he defended well in that aspect, just couldn't handle the jabs and wrestling.

Just to add to the first point, that's like saying JDS should openly jump in someone like Werdums guard or pull guard on Cain just because he's one dimensional.
Those are his strengths but the dude just broke "smoke break" Fitch's record for time spent in the octagon without a finish. Its not like he doesn't have the skill..hes just not going to risk losing control of the fight.

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03-20-2013, 03:20 AM
  #659
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Those are his strengths but the dude just broke "smoke break" Fitch's record for time spent in the octagon without a finish. Its not like he doesn't have the skill..hes just not going to risk losing control of the fight.
What skill does he posses that he hasn't been showing? Standup? He's not powerful enough to outright knock dudes out, and guys like Condit and Diaz are no bums either, yet he still manages to put up huge significant strikes against his opponents. Submissions? GSP is almost always actively looking for a sub, once again, how easy are guys like Diaz and Condit to tap out?.. I'm sorry but like I said, wrestling and a smothering top game is his bread and butter, if he ever gets the real opening to finish the fight I'm sure he will. But I'm sure he's content with working his game. Like others have said, it's not all on him either, all his opponents know exactly what to expect and none of them can stop it still. He's just good at what he does, even though it may not be the most exciting aspect of mma.

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03-21-2013, 12:02 AM
  #660
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GSP knows that nobody at 170 (so far) can beat him if he plays it cautious while standing and just lands take down after take down. He also knows that he is a big enough draw and has enough fans that he doesn't need to go for the big KO or submission to be able to keep raking in money for the UFC. There is really no need for him to switch up his strategy until someone comes along that makes him do so.

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03-21-2013, 09:47 PM
  #661
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Firas Zahabi (GSP's trainer) claims that GSP fought through an Achilles tendon injury during his match with Nick Diaz. Wonder if there was pressure from UFC to save the card, although Condit-Hendricks would have been an acceptable main event.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mma-ca...3374--mma.html

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03-21-2013, 11:09 PM
  #662
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while i get some of the gsp criticism i feel only the first 2 rounds were anything related to "boring" rounds 3,4,5 he was outstriking nick diaz and most was spent on the feet. the last 3 rounds nick diaz also did a better job of tdd so gsp picked him apart with that jab. unfortunately people see the first 2 rounds and their minds already made up that gsp fought another boring match.

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03-21-2013, 11:13 PM
  #663
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while i get some of the gsp criticism i feel only the first 2 rounds were anything related to "boring" rounds 3,4,5 he was outstriking nick diaz and most was spent on the feet. the last 3 rounds nick diaz also did a better job of tdd so gsp picked him apart with that jab. unfortunately people see the first 2 rounds and their minds already made up that gsp fought another boring match.
I think their minds were made up because he actually did fight another boring match (Occam's razor).

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03-21-2013, 11:59 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
Firas Zahabi (GSP's trainer) claims that GSP fought through an Achilles tendon injury during his match with Nick Diaz. Wonder if there was pressure from UFC to save the card, although Condit-Hendricks would have been an acceptable main event.[/URL]
Yeah this likely contributed to him gassing, which we never see, so that makes more sense now. What sucks though is he's gonna be out several months so it's gonna be a while before we see him and Hendricks.

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