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Old
03-19-2013, 10:00 PM
  #176
Paranoid Android
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Turnovers happen. Seems like this whole fan base is now afraid of turnovers as much as Trotz is.

This team for whatever reason can't piece together a complete game, if the defense is good, Rinne sucks, or we can't score. If we score, we play bad defense. If we play tight defense, we don't score. Or Defense is ok, shots are all from one angle and outside, Rinne makes the timely save but no one scores.

This team probably has as many 5 goal games as last years team, the problem is we've had more 5 goal games against too.
Odd man rushes don't just happen. I don't recall us having an odd man rush this game. They are a result of a major mistake.

All the problems are interconnected. Overcompensation is why we seem all over the place. When you are so poor at one part of the game, you try so hard to fix it that you stop playing a sound, complete game. Offense and defense are not two separate entities like in baseball. A sound offense translates to better defense and vice versa.

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03-19-2013, 10:03 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Odd man rushes don't just happen. I don't recall us having an odd man rush this game. They are a result of a major mistake.

All the problems are interconnected. Overcompensation is why we seem all over the place. When you are so poor at one part of the game, you try so hard to fix it that you stop playing a sound, complete game. Offense and defense are not two separate entities like in baseball. A sound offense translates to better defense and vice versa.
lol thanks for the hockey lesson....


We're not playing some wide open system now to create more goals, and 3 of those goals tonight should have been stopped by most NHL goalies.

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03-19-2013, 10:15 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
lol thanks for the hockey lesson....


We're not playing some wide open system now to create more goals, and 3 of those goals tonight should have been stopped by most NHL goalies.
Like I said, all of our problems are interconnected. Goaltending is losing confidence in our offense and defense. Defense gets pinned down because our offense can't keep sustained pressure. Offense can't transition because our defense lets teams walk in. And on and on... we are bad in every facet of the game right now. It's snowballing with seemingly no way to stop it.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:23 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Again, offensively on this 5 game road trip we've scored 16 goals, and only won 1 of those games.

In those 5 games the horrible Legwand has 5 points, and the horrible Fisher has 3 goals and 4 points.

I understand beating up players that are playing bad, but those 2 aren't our problems right now.

Erat on the other hand did not have a point on the road trip. He's getting top line minutes, powerplay time and the team is scoring, he should have atleast been involved some.

Our problem this road trip has mainly been Rinne.
The best player on the team and it's his fault. Did Legwand and Fisher score a goal to tie the game or put us ahead in the game. No! they scored garbage goals. They padded the stats. You haven't seen the Legwand errant passes that led to odd man rushes and goals. You didn't see how Legwand supposedly one of the best defensive players was late coming back and his man scored against Calgary. Rinne let in goals on the road trip. But when you offense doesn't give him any breathing room I would like to see what an average goalie would have allowed. The only regulation games we've won is either Rinne shut out the teams or allowed 1 goal or made great saves to keep us in the lead. Do you think that Rinne is supposed to shut out every game or he's garbage. That Calgary game Rinne was pulled when nobody hit anybody and they run around and made passes and the players just watched and you blame Rinne.
You must like think like Horacheck and pitiful offense.

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03-19-2013, 10:24 PM
  #180
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Trotz has to give up on the Ellis Blum combo. Those guys are too weak to be paired together, I don't have the answer there, I just know Hannan isn't it.

Offensively, I'd like to see Spaling, Smith and Halischuk back together it's the only time we've had decent chemistry with the 3rd line.

Legwand and Bourque seem to have a decent thing going, keep them together

Fisher and Erat just aren't working, but without Wilson, I don't know of another option. Maybe when Hornqvist and Wilson get back, we can pair those 2 with Fisher and Erat with Legwand and Bourque.

And when Gaustad gets back put him back with Clune, we need the banging.

funny we seemed to be a better team with guys like Ward, Tootoo, Fiddler and Smithson playing for us, we need to find that type of aggressive play, we're really missing it now.

the forecheck is what makes this team work, without it, we don't create the chances.

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03-19-2013, 10:26 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
The best player on the team and it's his fault. Did Legwand and Fisher score a goal to tie the game or put us ahead in the game. No! they scored garbage goals. They padded the stats. You haven't seen the Legwand errant passes that led to odd man rushes and goals. You didn't see how Legwand supposedly one of the best defensive players was late coming back and his man scored against Calgary. Rinne let in goals on the road trip. But when you offense doesn't give him any breathing room I would like to see what an average goalie would have allowed. The only regulation games we've won is either Rinne shut out the teams or allowed 1 goal or made great saves to keep us in the lead. Do you think that Rinne is supposed to shut out every game or he's garbage. That Calgary game Rinne was pulled when nobody hit anybody and they run around and made passes and the players just watched and you blame Rinne.
You must like think like Horacheck and pitiful offense.
No one said he as garbage. And I agree he's the best player on this team and he should be, he's making 7m a year.

But if you think for a minute he's played well on this road trip then I don't know what you're watching.

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03-19-2013, 10:35 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Like I said, all of our problems are interconnected. Goaltending is losing confidence in our offense and defense. Defense gets pinned down because our offense can't keep sustained pressure. Offense can't transition because our defense lets teams walk in. And on and on... we are bad in every facet of the game right now. It's snowballing with seemingly no way to stop it.
I agree for the most part. I just don't know what the root cause is, and it's not just the talent up front, it's the same talent we had up front last year plus Bourque and Wilson have improved a lot.

Defense losing Suter hurt, especially in the transition game but Josi has been outstanding too. It's just after Klein everything has been inconsistent at best.

I don't know what this team needs, I just know I'd like to see more aggressive forechecking and backchecking. Has the rest of the league figured out BT's system? I don't know.

This team usually plays with all heart, not this year though.

Was it Suter? Was it Tootoo? I have no idea, I just know we're lacking something.

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03-19-2013, 10:39 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
No one said he as garbage. And I agree he's the best player on this team and he should be, he's making 7m a year.

But if you think for a minute he's played well on this road trip then I don't know what you're watching.
Weber makes more money than Rinne. No Rinne didn't shut none of these teams out. Do I think Rinne is the reason we've lost 4 in row...NO.Well Crosby is making more than Rinne and does he score every night? Well he should he's getting paid to. No Rinne is not as sharp as but when have a team that doesn't hit anybody in in the defensive zone what do you expect.When you think Legwand and Fisher are playing well I don't know what your watching.

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03-19-2013, 10:46 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
Weber makes more money than Rinne. No Rinne didn't shut none of these teams out. Do I think Rinne is the reason we've lost 4 in row...NO.Well Crosby is making more than Rinne and does he score every night? Well he should he's getting paid to. No Rinne is not as sharp as but when have a team that doesn't hit anybody in in the defensive zone what do you expect.When you think Legwand and Fisher are playing well I don't know what your watching.
Yeah, man you're right Rinne stood on his head in the last 4 games, it was all Legwand's fault and um, I guess Crosby's.


You got me....

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03-19-2013, 10:52 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Like I said, all of our problems are interconnected. Goaltending is losing confidence in our offense and defense. Defense gets pinned down because our offense can't keep sustained pressure. Offense can't transition because our defense lets teams walk in. And on and on... we are bad in every facet of the game right now. It's snowballing with seemingly no way to stop it.
We don't know what is said by the players in the lockeroom. But when Management lets Suter walk away or let him go down to the deadline. Players are human they know that Poile is not addressing the team needs. Maybe Trotz doesn't won't an offensive player. He wants to win his way and as long as see know threat to his job by Poile then he see no need to change. I watched hockey a long time but for once I would like to see what a real scorer would do for this team. Not a over the hill Forsberg or enigmatic AK or a head case in Radulov or a Fisher who placed in the wrong role as a scorer when he's not . They know that Weber is frustrated and come game time no matter what kind of money he's making he wants a real chance at a cup. The words have may gone deaf on the players ears. The fact is we don't know. We know that the Trotz words are deaf to our ears.

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03-19-2013, 10:55 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Yeah, man you're right Rinne stood on his head in the last 4 games, it was all Legwand's fault and um, I guess Crosby's.


You got me....
He would have to for us to win. I didn't mean to pick on your favorite player in Legwand...when you loose 4 in a row it's everybody fault

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03-19-2013, 11:01 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
He would have to for us to win. I didn't mean to pick on your favorite player in Legwand...when you loose 4 in a row it's everybody fault
Legwand isn't my favorite, I guess Weber is.

I feel bad for Legwand. He was an offensive player forced into a defensive role and he did it without complaints. Legwand had to tools to develop into a good offensive center but Trotz molded him into a 2 way center with more attention to defense and all this fan base has done is tear him up over it.

Legwand probably lost money by playing for Trotz but he's yet to complain, and he's remained loyal to this team and has never really been rewarded for it but he's the first people blame when things go wrong. We even had one guy here say he hated legwand because he liked kinky sex and he was serious.

It is everyone's fault but Rinne has struggled as much or more than anyone the last 3 game especially.

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03-19-2013, 11:08 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Trotz has to give up on the Ellis Blum combo. Those guys are too weak to be paired together, I don't have the answer there, I just know Hannan isn't it.

Offensively, I'd like to see Spaling, Smith and Halischuk back together it's the only time we've had decent chemistry with the 3rd line.

Legwand and Bourque seem to have a decent thing going, keep them together

Fisher and Erat just aren't working, but without Wilson, I don't know of another option. Maybe when Hornqvist and Wilson get back, we can pair those 2 with Fisher and Erat with Legwand and Bourque.

And when Gaustad gets back put him back with Clune, we need the banging.

funny we seemed to be a better team with guys like Ward, Tootoo, Fiddler and Smithson playing for us, we need to find that type of aggressive play, we're really missing it now.

the forecheck is what makes this team work, without it, we don't create the chances.
I don't ever remember those 2 playing together in Milwaukee. If the coach in the AHL won't do it because of their size, why would the NHL coach pair them?

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03-19-2013, 11:17 PM
  #189
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Legwand isn't my favorite, I guess Weber is.

I feel bad for Legwand. He was an offensive player forced into a defensive role and he did it without complaints. Legwand had to tools to develop into a good offensive center but Trotz molded him into a 2 way center with more attention to defense and all this fan base has done is tear him up over it.

Legwand probably lost money by playing for Trotz but he's yet to complain, and he's remained loyal to this team and has never really been rewarded for it but he's the first people blame when things go wrong. We even had one guy here say he hated legwand because he liked kinky sex and he was serious.

It is everyone's fault but Rinne has struggled as much or more than anyone the last 3 game especially.
Rinne has struggled I agree but if he gives up a goal we loose because we don't have the offense to keep up. We agree on a butch of things Weber especially. He's not playing well either. Legwand's biggest problem I see is his lack of confidence on offense but when your placed as the face of the franchise that is what you have to overcome and he hasn't. Whether or not he would have become a greater player we'll never know. Trotz and Legwand are tied to the hip so to speak. I have always thought Legwand has one of the best wrist shots in the game but his confidence prevents him from just stepping out. But for the most part his passes are beyond belief. That debate is for another topic We all are frustrated nobody is trying to get anybody because Poile didn't or won't get Weber and Rinne help on offense. We pick on Smith(who should be in the minors or out of here) because he hasn't emerged and we are fans who are watching some bad hockey and a team that the coaches aren't reaching .

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03-20-2013, 12:36 AM
  #190
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Legwand really isn't playing that badly. Fisher's been on the scoring sheet. I know they haven't been good on defense but They really haven't been as bad as everyone is making them out to be in the last few games.

Not sticking up for them and do believe we need to sell but we need to buy at the same time. A full rebuild could lose fan base fast, especially if we become bottom dwellers in the west for a couple of years.

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03-20-2013, 12:42 AM
  #191
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HOw can young players have any confidence under Trotz? Make one mistake like Smith did tonight and bam benched. Imagine every mistake you make at work and you're in ****. terrible culture

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03-20-2013, 12:42 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by wadesworld View Post
Wouldn't be a big deal if he called out Fisher, Erat, Legwand, SK, and the rest of 'em.

Smith may not deserve more time, but neither do any of the rest of them.
Smith wiill be moved and he's going to flourish with another team. Mark my words.

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03-20-2013, 06:21 AM
  #193
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The SUCK Edition.
Ahhh... Yeah, that would be quite necessary at this point.

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03-20-2013, 06:23 AM
  #194
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HOw can young players have any confidence under Trotz? Make one mistake like Smith did tonight and bam benched. Imagine every mistake you make at work and you're in ****. terrible culture
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Originally Posted by mind_the_gap View Post
Smith wiill be moved and he's going to flourish with another team. Mark my words.
I agree. Smith is now getting the Legwand treatment.

Thou Shalt not turn the puck over.

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03-20-2013, 06:28 AM
  #195
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We don't know what is said by the players in the lockeroom. But when Management lets Suter walk away or let him go down to the deadline. Players are human they know that Poile is not addressing the team needs. Maybe Trotz doesn't won't an offensive player.u He wants to win his way and as long as see know threat to his job by Poile then he see no need to change. I watched hockey a long time but for once I would like to see what a real scorer would do for this team. Not a over the hill Forsberg or enigmatic AK or a head case in Radulov or a Fisher who placed in the wrong role as a scorer when he's not . They know that Weber is frustrated and come game time no matter what kind of money he's making he wants a real chance at a cup. The words have may gone deaf on the players ears. The fact is we don't know. We know that the Trotz words are deaf to our ears.
FWIW, GMDP didn't let Suter walk or let him go down to the deadline, those were choices made by Suter. I feel confident Poile would have been more than happy to have re-signed Suter early on. Poile's biggest folly was taking Suter at his word that everything would work out. I remember a short-lived thread here about a fanboy experience with Lindy where Lindy initially said that he was almost 100% sure that Suter wasn't re-signing. If the players thought that, then Poile should have had an inkling as well.

All that aside, fact is our team is just playing bad hockey this season, same as some other teams around the league. **** happens.

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03-20-2013, 06:36 AM
  #196
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Did I miss something with Smith? Let's double shift Yip yet we need offense and Smith is on the bench? Let's see, how can we totally take all the confidence away from Smith.

Just read that Trotz said he needs more from everyone up and down the lineup. Really? Duh. I'm sorry but when you're entire team is underperforming, it's not the players anymore, it's the lost voice of your coach. This team is abysmal.

There was one point that Rinne was getting up and he did it slowly. I was worried he was injured but realized it was frustration more than anything. It's as if he didn't care and to be honest, I don't blame him. The team around him is playing like crap. And actually calling it crap is an insult to crap.

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03-20-2013, 06:39 AM
  #197
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if COL and CGY win their games in hand, the Preds are in last place.

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03-20-2013, 10:02 AM
  #198
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WOW - wonder what I missed - first game I didn't see this year.

Under the "it's all interrelated" heading - it's Suter.

Taking him out - long term - won't matter because I think Josi and Ellis will be fine, but Josi could have used one more year with Klein and it would have been nice to be able to protect Ellis and his lack-of-size a little more. It's not just given us weird pairings, but affected our ability to clear the zone, make outlets to open up the ice, etc. That changed our Fs game a lot, because they had to work that much harder on the chip-and-clear around the boards and until recently we weren't getting any "easy" clears and breakouts.

It screwed Poile; I was in the "naive Poile" camp since last year's AS game. However, I wasn't looking Suter in the eye and having those conversations; nor was I getting insight from Shea and the other guys. I'm a human-nature guy, so I wouldn't have believed Suter and I'd have dealt him last year, but I'm not sure I "blame" Poile. That said, when it came down to the FA deadline he should have pulled the offer and gone in a different direction because he has the ultimate safety blanket with Webs being an RFA. Easy to say in hindsight and also, not in Poile's nature so expecting that is silly; it was never gonna' happen unless Suter told him he flat-out didn't wanna' be here.

Shea. He seemed surprised, too, and more than a bit pissed initially. Sure seems like he was expecting to either be playing with Suter or getting a heads-up he wasn't gonna' be. Seems to have thrown him a bit mentally; we all know taking on a new partner was gonna' change his game a bit, and not being able to go with Josi consistently from the start didn't help. But as noted elsewhere, Weber's O is coming on and I believe a huge part of it is settling his partner in and letting him focus, knowing it's RJ.

It takes away a trade chip. No idea if/what Poile would do, but without Suter we really don't have a stud prospect we can afford to deal, at least not for O. If Blum hadn't collapsed last year would have been fine, but going into this year not knowing how long it would take Ellis to transition and whether or not Blum would come around, plus figuring Bartley needed some time yet as well as Eckholm transitioning to NA ice - simply took away what should have been a strength and source to deal from.

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03-20-2013, 10:04 AM
  #199
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if COL and CGY win their games in hand, the Preds are in last place.
Really hard to accept isn't it. 7 playoff appearances since 03-04 and coming off the best playoff in team history. This would not support removal of the coach or GM at this point. The blame right now will be placed on the players who are not getting the job done.

In the past every year some roster moves have been made to improve the team before the start of the season. This season it was basically the addition of Hannan. The staff took the chance the young players would step up and solid play from the veterans would pull the team through. Borque has been the lone player that has stepped up. Wilson stood pat he is no worse but no better. Eliis has solidifiedhis being on the NHL squad. The remainder of the team has under achieved. In the Trotz system that has been a perfect storm.

We can coach from the armchair and want this or that to happen but it is a rare thing that the fanbase is correct when a roster move happens that they want. It is also common for the fanbase to overvalue there players. Be it a player that is placed over there head in the lineup or a player who the fans believe to be golden trade bait.

This is the first year the team has experienced this drastic downturn in talent and performance, and the fanbase is not happy. We have no idea what this team will look like next Oct, but the current contract situation indicates it will not be drastically different. NTC's and the salary cap drop for next year is going to dictate the make=up of the team.

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