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Old
03-19-2013, 10:46 PM
  #26
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Model themselves after a franchise that is in a neverendingly perpetual rebuild?

A very short-sighted thread topic in my eyes. Firing is temporary, the team they have now is a product of high picks and one armed asset management. As for howson, he was relieved of his here and re-assigned in a lesser role simply because that's where he belong imo. His experience is useful though.

Sure the topic shouldn't suggest not doing what they did? For instance, giving up the franchises most coveted asset is not a hard I wish for the Oil to harrow. They sure could use our lottery luck though. Interesting thread topic nonetheless. Confusing to say the least.

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03-19-2013, 10:48 PM
  #27
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If they finish outside the bottom 5 I would call that a success. They had that 30th spot lined up, and they still might get it. I just see a lot of push from that team trying their damn hardest right now.

it amazes me with the complete lack of high end talent of that club.
It shouldn't really amaze anybody. When a team trades away a guy like Rick Nash everybody with a contract thats left knows they are fighting for their very jobs in town and that the team is in tank mode anyway and are desperate to try to remain with jobs.

When you know the org is in rebuild and its burn it down time you try not to be one of the casualties. Bet theres a lot of players in Columbus playing scared and looking over shoulders right now.

When a 38yr old Vinny Prospal is leading your team you've got a VERY BAD team. A depressing lineup actually.

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03-19-2013, 10:53 PM
  #28
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I'm pretty sure a team that finished 30th, 30th, 29th could learn from anyone.

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03-19-2013, 10:55 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
It shouldn't really amaze anybody. When a team trades away a guy like Rick Nash everybody with a contract thats left knows they are fighting for their very jobs in town and that the team is in tank mode anyway and are desperate to try to remain with jobs.

When you know the org is in rebuild and its burn it down time you try not to be one of the casualties. Bet theres a lot of players in Columbus playing scared and looking over shoulders right now.

When a 38yr old Vinny Prospal is leading your team you've got a VERY BAD team. A depressing lineup actually.
I completely agree with their team. It is terrible, but thats what i'm getting at. That team is doing a lot more with a lot less. The Oilers should realistically smoke the blue jackest. Our teams shouldn't even be on the same level, we're what coming up on year 4 of the "rebuild"? they're in year one and it appears that they are going to give us a run for our money.

If they tank and crash, which a definite possibility then they will be doing what was expected. Whereas the Oilers seem to struggling to get out of the basement. I don't think its out of line to expect us to be doing better then Columbus at this point.

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03-19-2013, 10:55 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
I'm pretty sure a team that finished 30th, 30th, 29th could learn from anyone.
Well there is that, we could learn to be 28th place.

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03-19-2013, 10:59 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by flashy View Post
I completely agree with their team. It is terrible, but thats what i'm getting at. That team is doing a lot more with a lot less. The Oilers should realistically smoke the blue jackest. Our teams shouldn't even be on the same level, we're what coming up on year 4 of the "rebuild"? they're in year one and it appears that they are going to give us a run for our money.

If they tank and crash, which a definite possibility then they will be doing what was expected. Whereas the Oilers seem to struggling to get out of the basement. I don't think its out of line to expect us to be doing better then Columbus at this point.
All I'm saying is you get this in hockey and most team sports all the time. You know, theres no reason at all for SJ to be as far down the pack as they are but they are. For the most part things settle out and the top 8 I expect to be there this year are there.

I'll say this, surviving this org in the mid 90's and recent years I want no part of having to stomach what Columbus is going to be going through. More to the point I don't think they even have the fanbase to continue to support losing clubs without any marquee player. Its a hard team to love for sure. If BJ fans can love this they might manage to keep a club in town.

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03-19-2013, 11:04 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashy View Post
I completely agree with their team. It is terrible, but thats what i'm getting at. That team is doing a lot more with a lot less. The Oilers should realistically smoke the blue jackest. Our teams shouldn't even be on the same level, we're what coming up on year 4 of the "rebuild"? they're in year one and it appears that they are going to give us a run for our money.

If they tank and crash, which a definite possibility then they will be doing what was expected. Whereas the Oilers seem to struggling to get out of the basement. I don't think its out of line to expect us to be doing better then Columbus at this point.
CBJ isn't going anywhere but down. The Oilers are exactly where most predicted at the start of the season, fighting for a playoff spot.

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03-19-2013, 11:09 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
CBJ isn't going anywhere but down. The Oilers are exactly where most predicted at the start of the season, fighting for a playoff spot.
Not going anywhere but down?

They've cruised past our Oilers in the standing almost effortlessly as of late.

Let's not get on our high horses because they don't have as many 1st overall picks as us.

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03-19-2013, 11:13 PM
  #34
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Since theres a sidebar of Howson in this thread its interesting to note that GM Scott Howson took a Columbus team that was doing good box office and well over 16K fans a game and turned that into a team getting 14K attendance and 3rd worst in league behind only NYI, and Phoenix.

So theres that real bottom, to the bottom line.

Again I don't blame Columbus fans for a second either. Why would you pay to watch that club? I mean aside from them currently riding unlikely lightning.

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03-19-2013, 11:14 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Not going anywhere but down?

They've cruised past our Oilers in the standing almost effortlessly as of late.

Let's not get on our high horses because they don't have as many 1st overall picks as us.
Happens when a team goes on a winning streak, I didn't say we should be smoking them...that was the poster I was responding to. I'd be willing to bet that CBJ does not maintain their current success rate for much longer, all I'm saying...I could be wrong.

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03-19-2013, 11:17 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Since theres a sidebar of Howson in this thread its interesting to note that GM Scott Howson took a Columbus team that was doing good box office and well over 16K fans a game and turned that into a team getting 14K attendance and 3rd worst in league behind only NYI, and Phoenix.

So theres that real bottom, to the bottom line.

Again I don't blame Columbus fans for a second either. Why would you pay to watch that club? I mean aside from them currently riding unlikely lightning.
Minor point: the Jackets under MacLean padded the attendance. When Howson arrived, the only number reported was actual people in the stands, not simply tickets out (sold or comped) whether they were used or not.

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03-19-2013, 11:21 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
Happens when a team goes on a winning streak, I didn't say we should be smoking them...that was the poster I was responding to. I'd be willing to bet that CBJ does not maintain their current success rate for much longer, all I'm saying...I could be wrong.
I don't think they'll continue at this rate either, but they're just as much in the play-off picture as we are.


Both the Oilers and Blue Jackets would be in 30th place without their current streaks.

It's a little hypocritical to imply their streak is all smoke and mirrors, but our's isn't.


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Old
03-19-2013, 11:23 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Minor point: the Jackets under MacLean padded the attendance. When Howson arrived, the only number reported was actual people in the stands, not simply tickets out (sold or comped) whether they were used or not.
Thanks for that info but doesn't really change the Org being in a lot of trouble for gate and it looking like the subtraction of Rick Nash is making a difference as of course expected.
Just seems like this is only going to get worse without a big name marquee player in the lineup. My take is a Rick Nash in a Columbus market will prove in time to have been worth 1-2K tickets sold/game. Right now the difference standing more around 600 but expect that number to grow in time as interest wanes.

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03-19-2013, 11:26 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Thanks for that info but doesn't really change the Org being in a lot of trouble for gate and it looking like the subtraction of Rick Nash is making a difference as of course expected.
Just seems like this is only going to get worse without a big name marquee player in the lineup. My take is a Rick Nash in a Columbus market will prove in time to have been worth 1-2K tickets sold/game. Right now the difference standing more around 600 but expect that number to grow in time as interest wanes.
I would assume the lock-out has more to do with that difference.

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03-19-2013, 11:29 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Billybaroo View Post
Their present GM has zero to do with their present hot streak. A 6 year old could figure that out.
The logic suggesting otherwise is about as sound as suggesting Howson has something to do with the Oilers recent performance.
Couldn't agree more.

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03-19-2013, 11:31 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
I would assume the lock-out has more to do with that difference.
Not sure about that.

Strangely enough the rebound from markets sometimes results in higher ticket sales post lockout possibly due to limiting product and thereby making it more attractive.

Theres a few commentators that speculate the occasional withdrawal of product might be good for business as it creates want and reduces saturation.

Think of it as a prohibition type phenomenon. What happens to booze sales after a prolonged period of no booze available?

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03-19-2013, 11:31 PM
  #42
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I'm not really sure why Howson was fired at the time he was. Did they not like the Nash trade? To me, it seemed like a great return for him. I'm pretty sure he was pressured into the Carter trade, and he ended up getting a pretty good return for him too. What did he really do wrong (in the last couple of years)?

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03-19-2013, 11:37 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
I'm pretty sure a team that finished 30th, 30th, 29th could learn from anyone.
Probably not good advice to learn from the team that most recently finished 30th when you're honestly better learning from your own improvements or mistakes or wait, their mistakes or... I give up. Certainly not a winning model nor an improving team that anything should be gained from but defeating.

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03-19-2013, 11:37 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Not sure about that.

Strangely enough the rebound from markets sometimes results in higher ticket sales post lockout possibly due to limiting product and thereby making it more attractive.

Theres a few commentators that speculate the occasional withdrawal of product might be good for business as it creates want and reduces saturation.

Think of it as a prohibition type phenomenon. What happens to booze sales after a prolonged period of no booze available?
I think that's a pretty good analogy, but it's closer to a certain kind of booze not being available, not all booze in general.

No whiskey is available, so you drink rum. You enjoy the rum and don't feel the need to rush back to the whiskey once it's made available again.

You also have to keep in mind that a lot of people already enjoyed rum and were only just acquiring the taste for whiskey too.

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03-19-2013, 11:37 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Not sure about that.

Strangely enough the rebound from markets sometimes results in higher ticket sales post lockout possibly due to limiting product and thereby making it more attractive.

Theres a few commentators that speculate the occasional withdrawal of product might be good for business as it creates want and reduces saturation.

Think of it as a prohibition type phenomenon. What happens to booze sales after a prolonged period of no booze available?
No, it made a sizable difference.

Ohio's been hammered by the recession, just as Ohio gets hammered in every recession. When a lot of people are struggling and a lot are just starting to get back on their feet, the following happened:
- A poor 2011-12 season
- The looming threat of a season-ending lockout, which prevented people from actually looking at snapping up season tickets
- The All-Star Game actually being cancelled, which was basically throwing gasoline onto an already-burning fire that the venom of the lockout was creating

As soon as the lockout ended, training camp began and was completely packed. The passion for hockey never left; it's a classic case of not financially supporting something out of protest.

(Does anyone mind if I keep hanging around this thread? I promise to be good...at least until someone utters "the R word")

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03-19-2013, 11:42 PM
  #46
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I'm not really sure why Howson was fired at the time he was. Did they not like the Nash trade? To me, it seemed like a great return for him. I'm pretty sure he was pressured into the Carter trade, and he ended up getting a pretty good return for him too. What did he really do wrong (in the last couple of years)?
That was a horrible return for Rick Nash on and off the ice. Rangers are glad for it and would be struggling a lot on the ice without Rick Nash.

Dubinsky won't even be of note in a year or two. Anisimov is presently overrated as well. I think more people trying to like the deal somehow. Phenomenon happens all the time.

The rule of trades generally is the best player involved wins the trade. From a Columbus perspective you just don't make this trade. This I imagine was there version of the RR trade although Nash always played well and was always valuable.

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03-19-2013, 11:46 PM
  #47
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I'm not really sure why Howson was fired at the time he was. Did they not like the Nash trade? To me, it seemed like a great return for him. I'm pretty sure he was pressured into the Carter trade, and he ended up getting a pretty good return for him too. What did he really do wrong (in the last couple of years)?
They didn't want him drafting for them this year, I heard. They have a lot of picks and Jarmo Kekäläinen has a good track record in that area.

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03-19-2013, 11:46 PM
  #48
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No, it made a sizable difference.

Ohio's been hammered by the recession, just as Ohio gets hammered in every recession. When a lot of people are struggling and a lot are just starting to get back on their feet, the following happened:
- A poor 2011-12 season
- The looming threat of a season-ending lockout, which prevented people from actually looking at snapping up season tickets
- The All-Star Game actually being cancelled, which was basically throwing gasoline onto an already-burning fire that the venom of the lockout was creating

As soon as the lockout ended, training camp began and was completely packed. The passion for hockey never left; it's a classic case of not financially supporting something out of protest.

(Does anyone mind if I keep hanging around this thread? I promise to be good...at least until someone utters "the R word")
A lot of US markets have been hammered and this "protest" appears to be going on nowhere else. One of the biggest surprises is how many recently struggling US markets have done real well at the box office since this lockout. I wasn't really expecting that. For instance who can explain the Dallas rebound. Are they giving tickets away there? That club isn't very good, and struggling at box office till this season.

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03-19-2013, 11:47 PM
  #49
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CBJ fan who's actually coming in peace. My old user title was "The Last Howsonite", and I still stand by it.

When Howson got to Columbus, there was nearly no actual NHL talent on the roster. The only guys under 30 who were on the roster and productive were Rick Nash and Nikolai Zherdev. Someone named Duvie Westcott was a top-4 defenseman. If a forward went down, the first three names on the call-up sheet were one of Steve Goertzen, Geoff Platt, or Alex Picard. If it was a defenseman, Derrick Walser. If it was a goalie, prayer was a good option because there never were any goalies around.

There was massive dead weight to deal with. A ton of guys were over 30 and way past their primes, there were bloated contracts galore, and there was nothing resembling a farm system.

In one year of Howson, the team had their best season in history to date. In one more year, they were in the playoffs. The roster turnover was massive and nearly immediate. The quality of drafting skyrocketed. Actual NHL prospects could be called up, some of whom (gasp) had actually been picked later than the first round.

I don't care if 50% of CBJ fans think he sucked. I don't care if 75% do. I don't care if 99% do (and there were those who said 99.64% thought that he did). He did a hell of a lot better job here than anyone would give him credit for.

If Edmonton were to can Tambellini and put Howson in...let's just say that it would make me very happy to not be playing the Oilers more than twice a season. Give him as much of a head start on the NHL roster as what you have right now? As a non-Oilers fan, I do not relish that thought...it's frightening.
great post. Did the jackets actually make the playoffs. I don't even recall that.

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03-19-2013, 11:59 PM
  #50
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great post. Did the jackets actually make the playoffs. I don't even recall that.
Oddly they did. I can't honestly remember that season when they did either. The only reason it's really fresh that they did is simply because someone asked what year they were inaugurated and I glanced at their standings finished from every year that actually included a playoff berth.

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