Scott Stevens and Nicklas Lidstrom are defensemen. I'm sorry, but I have a problem with a FORWARD like Selanne who was left off 45 of 50 Hart ballots, and then 10 years later, he's listed over players who were so obviously better than him that very same year because people remember the trivia of "most goals in a year as a rookie" or something.
I think Stevens and Bourque were basically equals in 1993-94, but you're right that Fedorov probably Hasek were better than both.
Well, I have to point to the list being constructed with what they conceived as the most notable seasons rather than the list you want. Selanne's 76-goal season is a lot more notable than Lafontaine's season, no matter how many Hart votes the latter got.
Plus, in the end, it's just a list. All lists of this nature are subjective, so it just seems silly to have such a problem with it.
So is your stance that Hart voting is evidence when comparing forwards to each other - even with a disparate level of goals? You haven't called their 4th (Richard over Lach) or their 16th (Bossy over Gretzky, Dionne) a "joke" yet, and they were named before the Hart winner - not after him.
It's evidence that their seasons were widely considered better at the time. They were considered better, because they were better.
My post was about Selanne's 1992-93 because I was responding to a post that mentioned that Selanne's 1992-93 was on the list and Fedorov's best season wasn't. My intention wasn't to write a 10,000 word dissertation about every season that should or should not have been there.
Let's add Yzerman got 28 points in 12 games alone off of expansion teams Ottawa, TB and San Jose. Great way to pad stats eh?
What were Selanne's numbers against expansion teams?
San Jose allowed over 400 goals and was a division opponent for Selanne.
Yzerman had Tampa Bay for a division opponent, but they allowed fewer goals than one of the CUP FINALISTS. The Norris division was by far the most defensive. Tampa was the only team to allow more than 300 from the Norris. In contrast, the Smythe had 4 teams with 300+ GA teams, the Adams had three, and the Patrick had two. Detroit was the only team in the Norris to score more than 290 goals; the Patrick had all six score 300, and the Smythe and Adams had four each.
Selanne from all I can find,did not play on a line with Zhamnov and Tkachuk, it is mentioned over and over in several publications, that line, "The Olympic Line" was not formed until the next year, I am uncertain who he played with but it wasn't those two. Let's not forget Zhamnov and Tkachuk were rookies too, Big Walt had 17 NHL games under his belt walking into this season. I believe Selanne played with Steen and Shannon but I need confirmation. Almost positive Steen is correct. It should be noted, Selenne obliterated the Mike Bossy's record for goals by a rookie, by 24 goals.
23 goals, actually. And I'm not certain on Steen v. Zhamnov (I remember that he played with both in that season specifically, not sure of circumstance...) but I do know that Tie Domi had the primary assist on the record breaking goal in one of the most amazing examples of cherry picking ever.
Looking at the point totals on that Jet team during the NHL's biggest year and they are paltry at best. Housley with 79 assists than it drops off significantly, rookie Zhannov with 47, Steen with 50, Shannon with 40 and than not a player above 30, most below 20. Selanne goals alone beats the point totals of all the Jets player except Housley. So, really...you going to try and keep pushing that the Jets were some sort spectacular team? Especially compared to the Wings....
I am going to remind you, Selanne's rookie goal record is probably a record like many of Gretzky's that will never be broken.
When's the next 120-point Hart/Pearson/Selke winner? Or the next player to score 150+ points without a 100+ point teammate?
Let's be frank (no pun intended), Selke Trohpy= garbage award, so please stop trying to force that award down my throat. It doesn't go to the best defensive forward, it goes to the forward with a lot of points that is very good at defense. Just so you know, I think the trophy is garbage, a fluff and glam piece of hardware.
If it truly went to the top defensive forward, Steve Kasper would have 10 and he doesn't. Selke trophy = garbage
Fedorov was a Selke contender before he was considered an offensive force. In fact, his offensive explosion from ~94-96 probably resulted in his winning fewer than he should have. In 1992, Guy Carbonneau won the Selke. But second-year player Fedorov received the most first place votes.
Also... saying Kasper deserved 10 is a bit homerish, don't you think? Jarvis, Clarke, Carbonneau, Graham, Ramsay, Murray, Poulin all were legitimately top notch defensive players. And then there's guys like Kurri, Tikkanen, an aging Gainey and Meagher.
You're basically saying "This is the guy I like, so he should have won every year. Period." Your little comment about Kasper gives me plenty of insight into why you think the way you do in these arguments.
Last edited by eva unit zero: 03-20-2013 at 12:06 AM.