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2013-14 Flyers Overhaul

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Old
03-19-2013, 03:28 PM
  #151
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Flyers need a game changer for D. Which, if they do get Jones, will be it. Even Nurse/Pulock could be considered game changers, at least in terms of offense, for the Flyers.

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03-19-2013, 03:31 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I'm not sure Yandle is selling low--in the sense of what established NHLer Couturier could fetch without another valuable asset included. But I'd prefer a Coburn + Laughton for Edler + pick framework, which some Canucks fans have expressed interest in.
Whatever we get in return for Coots in a deal will be lower than it would be another time I think. He's in a rut and his value has decreased. I'm confident in him in the future, so I personally am not a fan of trading.

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03-19-2013, 04:28 PM
  #153
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I think people are being a bit too dramatic. Now is not the time to be trading Couts. Briere can net a first round pick. Meszaros can net a 2nd round pick. With the way the Ducks are going Hiller can be had in the offseason for nothing too crazy. If you can get Hiller you buy out bryz. Then you have a top 5 pick, Hiller, and almost 20 million in cap room (Prongers 5, Breire+bryz 12, and 3 million we already had.)

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03-19-2013, 04:32 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Massive difference. Weber is at the top right now. We offered him a big cap hit and a ton of years. We can't offer years anymore...playing field has been leveled. If you really want pietro, 7 yrs 12m per should do it...but do you want to pay that for such an unproven guy? Skirk, probably 9 m over 7 and hes out....

"you guys" and your dumb 6m offersheets...it's not going to work....

It HAS to be egregious.
1) I didn't give an amount. 2) I didn't say it would work. In fact I said it was unrealistic. All I was saying is that if someone is going to try it, my money is on Holmgren.

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03-19-2013, 04:54 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
I think people are being a bit too dramatic. Now is not the time to be trading Couts. Briere can net a first round pick. Meszaros can net a 2nd round pick. With the way the Ducks are going Hiller can be had in the offseason for nothing too crazy. If you can get Hiller you buy out bryz. Then you have a top 5 pick, Hiller, and almost 20 million in cap room (Prongers 5, Breire+bryz 12, and 3 million we already had.)
I think this team has all the talent and skill (including the goalie) but needs a little more quality leadership and a new coach. i like laviolette but there's no way there's not an investigation going on into his replacement as we speak. this team regardless of injuries has taken a step backward in terms of discipline, chemistry, and two way play. i think you really need to factor in the injuries and sift through the b.s to see that this team was designed in a way were all the pieces are there minus a few and some different direction. and anyone who thinks were finding a better goalie for cheap is smoking crack. we can get a crappier goalie but bryzgalov earned another year this season proving he can handle an insane workload (and yea, i don't care about his save perc. considering everything i've seen from this team this year). were almost there. doesn't look like it cause of our record but we are almost there. please god don't blow up this team. this is called adversity. reacting to impatience is that old definition of insanity.

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:03 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
you honestly believe that hartnell is a better player than bobby ryan?
hartnell is a hard core heart and soul hockey player and way more of a leader than bobby ryan. ryan would look better next to giroux tho. he's egregious. hey i can use it too

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:02 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
1) I didn't give an amount. 2) I didn't say it would work. In fact I said it was unrealistic. All I was saying is that if someone is going to try it, my money is on Holmgren.
I know, which is why i put "you guys" in quotes. I didn't mean you specifically, so I am sorry if you took it that way.

We seem to get one of these OS Pietro threads every week, and its a silly OS that won't work.

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03-19-2013, 09:05 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
My strategy wasn't to end up w/ Shattenkirk... my strategy was to end up w/ Pietrangelo, who is easily the better overall player.

Based on the financial troubles of the StL franchise, you have to assume they're looking to give both Shatty and Pietro a bridge contract or possibly a medium-length one where they buyout a few years of UFA. You'd have to think they're perhaps looking @ that OEL deal as a model for Pietro.

So you start out by offersheeting Shattenkirk @ around 7M per for 6 years. Not egregious, but still difficult to match. And with the new NHL rules, for a 7M cap-hit, you can still structure the deal so that Shatty would receive $12M in the first year.

You hope that StL matches that, but if not, then you've just got yourself a heck of a defenseman.

If they do match though, now they've just agreed to pay their 2nd best defenseman well over what they wanted/planned to pay. Now Pietrangelo demands more, so we swoop in w/ a 2nd offer sheet @9M per year for 6 years. And we can structure it so that Pietro receives $15M in his first year.
__________________________

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I can't see the StL owners shelling out $27M next year for 2 defensemen when they also have Berglund and Stewart as RFAs who need to be re-upped, Andy McDonald who needs to be re-signed / replaced, etc.
They will. They have a budget, but they won't just lose assets for "nothing".

Like in Weber's case, it wasn't a question of does the ownership group actually have the money, its will they spend it.

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03-19-2013, 10:36 PM
  #159
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What ever happened to Holmgren wanting this team to be bigger on the wings? Yeah we had it last year, but that was one season. Then we go and trade away JVR and let Jagr walk in free agency. I know we didn't sign Jagr because we were waiting for Suter and Parise, and this defense would be even worse without L. Schenn, but that doesn't mean we can't find players that fit that style. Must have just been a lie to make losing Richards and Carter feel a little better at the time.

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Old
03-20-2013, 01:10 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
They will. They have a budget, but they won't just lose assets for "nothing".

Like in Weber's case, it wasn't a question of does the ownership group actually have the money, its will they spend it.
I understand, but it's not set it stone that they will spend. StL has a complicated ownership structure as I understand it... most of the owners w/ the real $$$ are minority owners and don't want to put out any money until they start to see the long-term vision for how they're going to get their $$$ back. If we put the screws to them, who knows what happens.

That being said, I'm not saying this is 100% to work or anything close to it. It's probably a little unrealistic. All I'm trying to say is that if Homer is still GM come this offseason, I hope he uses all available means to try and improve this team, and based on the list of players headed to RFA status right now, I see a lot of possible options for team improvement, including:

1) Putting the screws to the Rangers by offersheeting McDonaugh
2) Putting the screws to the Blues as mentioned above
3) Giving Pietrangelo a ridiculous 1 year offer sheet, feeling confident that he'll sign a long-term extension afterwards.

Then there's the "others" Bernier, Rask, Bob, etc. in the goalie market, Bogosian, Voynov, Rundblad, etc. in the defenseman market, etc.

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Old
03-20-2013, 08:13 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
I understand, but it's not set it stone that they will spend. StL has a complicated ownership structure as I understand it... most of the owners w/ the real $$$ are minority owners and don't want to put out any money until they start to see the long-term vision for how they're going to get their $$$ back. If we put the screws to them, who knows what happens.
Someone on the main board said that Shattenkirk could not receive an offer sheet due to an arbitration rule, otherwise I'd like to see them try what you were talking about. It's not likely to work, but if a GM isn't trying everything he can to improve the team he isn't doing his job.

Quote:
Then there's the "others" Bernier, Rask, Bob, etc. in the goalie market, Bogosian, Voynov, Rundblad, etc. in the defenseman market, etc.
Oh jeeze, could you imagine? lol

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Old
03-20-2013, 03:58 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Someone on the main board said that Shattenkirk could not receive an offer sheet due to an arbitration rule, otherwise I'd like to see them try what you were talking about. It's not likely to work, but if a GM isn't trying everything he can to improve the team he isn't doing his job.
The guy on the main boards was actually wrong, the new CBA allows for players who are being taken to arbitration to sign an offer sheet, it's just the offer sheet has to be signed by July 5. That's a new rule with the new CBA, and it could certainly complicate matters for St. Louis. Any premium player like Shattenkirk would actually be MORE likely to sign an offer sheet if the team tries to take him to arbitration because with arbitration, he's getting a 2 year deal @ the max.

St. Louis would have to be pretty dumb to let either Shatty or Pietro hit RFA status, but they'd have to be really dumb to let both get there. If they do, I can only assume it's because they're lowballing them both and if that's the case, they deserve the offersheets that will undoubtedly come. The RFA process isn't some dirty backhanded move like 99% of HFboards posters and Brian Burke thinks that it is. It's a legitimate process that offers teams a very fair chance to retain their players at a reasonable price prior to free agency starting. If they can't get that done, then it offers other teams the chance to get the players for a market price, but requires them to give fair compensation to the original team. And it also affords the original team the right to match. I think that's more than fair to the original team, and I think that all the talk of retribution is utterly hilarious. If one of your players gets offersheeted, it's because you didn't handle your team's business properly, not because of some dirty, conniving, thieving GM on another team.

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Oh jeeze, could you imagine? lol
I think Homer is far too proud to ever admit that he made a mistake letting Bob go and signing Bryz, so I highly doubt he would ever send an offersheet to Bob, let alone for what it would actually take for Columbus to let him go (at minimum a 1st+3rd type compensation). And I also doubt Bob would ever agree to sign an OS here after how he was treated, unless both the coach and GM are swept out of here. I was merely listing his name as one of the potentially attractive RFA options. I think Bob was the most unrealistic name on that list though... even more unrealistic than Pietro.

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Old
03-21-2013, 12:51 AM
  #163
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Probably not the best thing to be excited about...but I was thinking the other day how much of a terror a 4th line of Rinaldo-Laughton-Cousins could be next year or down the road. Could be a lot of fun and they would drive opposing teams and their fans nuts .
as fun,crazy,annoying as that line would be, i can see something like noebels-mcginn-laughton on the third line, and cousins-rinaldo-other on the 4th. those 2 guys are plenty to drive other teams bonkers.

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Old
03-21-2013, 10:37 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott*Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude*Giroux ($3.750m) / Corey*Perry ($8.500m)
Jakub*Voracek ($4.250m) / Sean*Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne*Simmonds ($3.975m)
Matt*Read ($0.900m) / Brayden*Schenn ($3.110m) / Nathan*Horton ($4.000m)
Matt*Hendricks ($0.825m) / Maxime*Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac*Rinaldo ($0.578m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo*Timonen ($6.000m) / Nicklas*Grossmann ($3.500m)
Braydon*Coburn ($4.500m) / Andrej*Meszaros ($4.000m)
Luke*Schenn ($3.600m) / Mark*Fistric ($1.475m)
Bruno*Gervais ($0.825m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy*Howard ($4.500m)
Jose Theodore (1.500m)


LTIR: Chris*Pronger ($0.000m)
Buyout: Ilya*Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
Buyout: Danny*Briere ($0.000m) or trade for picks
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,962,500; BONUSES: $2,800,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $2,137,500


Fire away! Tough market to please but worth a shot at an overhaul. Perry Horton and Howard are the biggest additions. Perry Horton and Hendricks adds to Philly grit motto. Fistric more toughness and young steady d. Theodore can step in if Howard needs a break similar to Vokoun in pitt.
Well no Perry now. What now. We Have to get bigger,faster and skill. Needs Young goalie to grow at least 2 d-men and let Gus stay! Forwards stay young but sprinkle vets in there.

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Old
03-21-2013, 02:24 PM
  #165
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Trade Briere to Ott for Bishop and whatever else you can get. Trade Meszaros for picks or solid D prospects. See if you can swindle any picks from anyone for Foster and/or Lilja. Go into next year with a real Backup Goalie, Laughton in the lineup, and lower expectations. If Bryz is bad again next year buy him out. Let the young guns earn playing time and grow. See what happens. 2014-2015 is the year I expect to make the playoffs and make noise.

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03-21-2013, 03:51 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Trade Briere to Ott for Bishop and whatever else you can get. Trade Meszaros for picks or solid D prospects. See if you can swindle any picks from anyone for Foster and/or Lilja. Go into next year with a real Backup Goalie, Laughton in the lineup, and lower expectations. If Bryz is bad again next year buy him out. Let the young guns earn playing time and grow. See what happens. 2014-2015 is the year I expect to make the playoffs and make noise.
Danny won't waive his NMC for anybody.

If you want to get rid of Danny, you have to amnesty clause him IMO. I'd be down to trading Meszaros for a 1st. Seeing the top of the draft board is all forwards; draft a Dman in late 1st or trade up to mid 1st.

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:55 PM
  #167
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hartnell- Giroux - Voracek
read - schenn - simmonds
gagne - coots - mcginn/talbot
mcginn/talbot - nichol/moore - rinaldo

coburn - jbo
kimo - schenn
grossman - tbd

bryz
tbd

that still looks like a really good line up to me. the young players play thru a rough season and get a year more experienece and stronger.

pick up jbo thru a trade involving pick(s).

#6 dman is either drafted or signed as a UFA.

I think bryz can do well with a better front 5.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:00 PM
  #168
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Danny won't waive his NMC for anybody.

If you want to get rid of Danny, you have to amnesty clause him IMO. I'd be down to trading Meszaros for a 1st. Seeing the top of the draft board is all forwards; draft a Dman in late 1st or trade up to mid 1st.
The Flyers have a better chance at trading Briere than getting a 1st rounder for Mez.

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03-21-2013, 09:08 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
hartnell- Giroux - Voracek
read - schenn - simmonds
gagne - coots - mcginn/talbot
mcginn/talbot - nichol/moore - rinaldo

coburn - jbo
kimo - schenn
grossman - tbd

bryz
tbd

that still looks like a really good line up to me. the young players play thru a rough season and get a year more experienece and stronger.

pick up jbo thru a trade involving pick(s).

#6 dman is either drafted or signed as a UFA.

I think bryz can do well with a better front 5.
So we're trading our 1st for Bouwmeester?

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03-21-2013, 09:31 PM
  #170
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So we're trading our 1st for Bouwmeester?
i would like to see what chips they can acquire for Briere, Mez, and Feds.

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03-21-2013, 10:42 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
hartnell- Giroux - Voracek
read - schenn - simmonds
gagne - coots - mcginn/talbot
mcginn/talbot - nichol/moore - rinaldo

coburn - jbo
kimo - schenn
grossman - tbd

bryz
tbd

that still looks like a really good line up to me. the young players play thru a rough season and get a year more experienece and stronger.

pick up jbo thru a trade involving pick(s).

#6 dman is either drafted or signed as a UFA.

I think bryz can do well with a better front 5.
This lineup isn't good enough as it is; you honestly believe that jbo is going to fix that and is worth giving up picks for to bank on him for the forseeable future instead of selling and rebuilding through the draft, like teams who win cups do?

No thanks. This team needs to build around youth for a prolonged window and a fresh approach, not more of the same band aid garbage, acquiring guys, by ways of sacrificing picks, that other organizations don't want and thinking its going to be different.

I don't want jay bouwmeester anywhere near this team. We should be selling guys who are holding this team back, rather than adding more failures to the pack.

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03-22-2013, 12:53 AM
  #172
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This lineup isn't good enough as it is; you honestly believe that jbo is going to fix that and is worth giving up picks for to bank on him for the forseeable future instead of selling and rebuilding through the draft, like teams who win cups do?

No thanks. This team needs to build around youth for a prolonged window and a fresh approach, not more of the same band aid garbage, acquiring guys, by ways of sacrificing picks, that other organizations don't want and thinking its going to be different.

I don't want jay bouwmeester anywhere near this team. We should be selling guys who are holding this team back, rather than adding more failures to the pack.
what? rebuild again? how much younger are you going to get? this team needs its core to get more experiened not rebuild around youth AGAIN. Thi teams biggest problem is bad turnovers by young players. Who the hell out of the core is old?

Giroux, Simmonds, Voracek, Schenn x 2, Rinaldo are all under 25?
Read, Hartnell, Coburn, Mez, Talbot, Grossman are under 30?

Jbo is 29.

Rebuild to be a contender in 2020?

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03-22-2013, 01:04 AM
  #173
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what? rebuild again? how much younger are you going to get? this team needs its core to get more experiened not rebuild around youth AGAIN. Thi teams biggest problem is bad turnovers by young players. Who the hell out of the core is old?

Giroux, Simmonds, Voracek, Schenn x 2, Rinaldo are all under 25?
Read, Hartnell, Coburn, Mez, Talbot, Grossman are under 30?

Jbo is 29.

Rebuild to be a contender in 2020?
I don't want JayBo at all. The guy has been playing for losing teams his entire career. I don't want that stigma brought around this team.

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03-22-2013, 01:12 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
hartnell- Giroux - Voracek
read - schenn - simmonds
gagne - coots - mcginn/talbot
mcginn/talbot - nichol/moore - rinaldo

coburn - jbo
kimo - schenn
grossman - tbd

bryz
tbd

that still looks like a really good line up to me. the young players play thru a rough season and get a year more experienece and stronger.

pick up jbo thru a trade involving pick(s).

#6 dman is either drafted or signed as a UFA.

I think bryz can do well with a better front 5.
Then push real hard for Laughton+ for Gardiner.

Hartnell + Giroux + Voracek
Simmonds - Schenn - Read
McGinn - Couturier - (top 5 pick)
Rinaldo - Holmstrom - Gagne/Talbot

Timonen - Schenn
Bouwmeester - Coburn
Gardiner - Grossmann

Bryzgalov
(whoever)

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Old
03-22-2013, 02:14 AM
  #175
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I don't want JayBo at all. The guy has been playing for losing teams his entire career. I don't want that stigma brought around this team.
What? So a good player has played for bad teams his whole career and suddenly makes any team bad? He's had terrible supporting casts everywhere, this Flyers team is way more talented than any roster his name has appeared on.

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