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Can we learn from Columbus?

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Old
03-20-2013, 12:40 AM
  #51
dixs35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
No, it made a sizable difference.

Ohio's been hammered by the recession, just as Ohio gets hammered in every recession. When a lot of people are struggling and a lot are just starting to get back on their feet, the following happened:
- A poor 2011-12 season
- The looming threat of a season-ending lockout, which prevented people from actually looking at snapping up season tickets
- The All-Star Game actually being cancelled, which was basically throwing gasoline onto an already-burning fire that the venom of the lockout was creating

As soon as the lockout ended, training camp began and was completely packed. The passion for hockey never left; it's a classic case of not financially supporting something out of protest.

(Does anyone mind if I keep hanging around this thread? I promise to be good...at least until someone utters "the R word")
I will say I read the Blue Jackets forum more than I care to admit during the Nash and Howson firing and you among others were some of the most informed well written thoughtful posters I've read in a long time. IMO you would be welcome here whenever you wanted. At least until I start pushing Belanger +2nd for a playoff push.


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Old
03-20-2013, 01:26 AM
  #52
enthropi
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
I don't think they'll continue at this rate either, but they're just as much in the play-off picture as we are.


Both the Oilers and Blue Jackets would be in 30th place without their current streaks.

It's a little hypocritical to imply their streak is all smoke and mirrors, but our's isn't.
We're on a winning streak??

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Old
03-20-2013, 04:52 AM
  #53
rosemount289
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A lot of teams.........?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Whats happening in Columbus is short term only. A team rallying momentarily this season after the loss of Rick Nash. You see this kind of thing commonly where suddenly the lunchbuckets come out and you get a talentless hardworking team but its almost always a shortlived phenomenon.
Mark my word before the end of the season the Blue Jackets will be in another ponderous losing streak.

Thats the last franchise in the league anybody should want to emulate.
A lot of the annual bottom feeders have shown improvements in this shorten season.........ie......Columbus, NYI, Edmonton, Winnipeg.......how much? That can be debated!

But if Oilers' brass can get a goaltender....like Ottawa's Ben Bishop.......a grinding forward like a Ryan Clowe....or a defenceman like a Boyle or a Del Zoto from NYR........I say go for it........short of giving up a first round draft pick....!

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Old
03-20-2013, 06:15 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashy View Post
Of course.

30th place in the league, 30th place in the league again then they fire GM and they start doing better. I just find it odd how that happened. You can't prove it was a cause but rest assured that it can't be ignored either.
No one here is going to try and convince you that Howson was Sammy Pollock but you may want to take a glance at the history of the franchise.

He took over a team that had never made the playoffs. In fact prior to his time they had never reached the 75 point level. During his tenure they had 80, 92, 79. 81 and 65 point seasons. Nothing to write home about but not horrible.

Then all the Nash stuff hit the fan. So who knows how much of the 65 point season was a consequence of the turmoil that this caused, including the ill-fated attempt to appease Nash by bringing in Carter et al. What we do know is that Howson had ownership mixed up in the mess as well.

So basically what you have is a team that had typically been running at a low 80 point level take a dive, and without their former star, but with much better goaltending they have returned to the level they had been at recently by playing tough defensive hockey under a coach that Howson hired and with players that Howson brought to the team. If the goaltending holds up they may keep winning. If not they will probably start to lose again regardless of the new GM.

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Old
03-20-2013, 08:03 AM
  #55
fuswald
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We should take a look at any team that is winning especially those with limited talent and see if anything they are doing could work for us. In Columbus case I think a combination of effort and focus is giving the wins. No mistakes and a lot of heart wins cups as well.

For the Oilers we need a sustained effort but the focus and lack of mistakes are a problem because of all the youth, including our fresh coach.

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Old
03-20-2013, 08:24 AM
  #56
CupofOil
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Columbus is 2 points ahead of the Oilers and the Oilers have 2 games in hand so what exactly are the Oilers learning from them?

I will agree that Columbus plays a faster, grittier game than the Oilers but this is a results oriented business and their results are pretty much on par with the Oilers.
The Oilers need to learn from a team like the Canadiens who are near the top of the EC and also have a bunch of smallish forwards but the difference being that their forwards play like bulldogs, always attacking and crashing the net while our forwards outside of Hall and Gagner play like a bunch of bambis.


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Old
03-20-2013, 08:49 AM
  #57
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I feel like people are overreacting to Columbus.....I don't think we need to be embarrassed that they are ahead of us in the standings.

They are getting insane goaltending right now - think Khabby at the start of 2011 where we went 9-2-1 or something like that.

With the parity in the league right now a hot goalie can carry a team or at least keep them in games until they can score a greasy goal.

I am surprised that HF posters aren't laughing at them for blowing their chance at a top pick.......I mean everybody with any hockey knowledge would rather draft top 3 than make a push for the playoffs and finish 9th......

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Old
03-20-2013, 08:58 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
CBJ fan who's actually coming in peace. My old user title was "The Last Howsonite", and I still stand by it.

When Howson got to Columbus, there was nearly no actual NHL talent on the roster. The only guys under 30 who were on the roster and productive were Rick Nash and Nikolai Zherdev. Someone named Duvie Westcott was a top-4 defenseman. If a forward went down, the first three names on the call-up sheet were one of Steve Goertzen, Geoff Platt, or Alex Picard. If it was a defenseman, Derrick Walser. If it was a goalie, prayer was a good option because there never were any goalies around.

There was massive dead weight to deal with. A ton of guys were over 30 and way past their primes, there were bloated contracts galore, and there was nothing resembling a farm system.

In one year of Howson, the team had their best season in history to date. In one more year, they were in the playoffs. The roster turnover was massive and nearly immediate. The quality of drafting skyrocketed. Actual NHL prospects could be called up, some of whom (gasp) had actually been picked later than the first round.

I don't care if 50% of CBJ fans think he sucked. I don't care if 75% do. I don't care if 99% do (and there were those who said 99.64% thought that he did). He did a hell of a lot better job here than anyone would give him credit for.

If Edmonton were to can Tambellini and put Howson in...let's just say that it would make me very happy to not be playing the Oilers more than twice a season. Give him as much of a head start on the NHL roster as what you have right now? As a non-Oilers fan, I do not relish that thought...it's frightening.
... and he accumulated 3 first round picks in the 2013 draft which is supposed to be a deep draft.

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Old
03-20-2013, 09:42 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosemount289 View Post
A lot of the annual bottom feeders have shown improvements in this shorten season.........ie......Columbus, NYI, Edmonton, Winnipeg.......how much? That can be debated!

But if Oilers' brass can get a goaltender....like Ottawa's Ben Bishop.......a grinding forward like a Ryan Clowe....or a defenceman like a Boyle or a Del Zoto from NYR........I say go for it........short of giving up a first round draft pick....!
Do you know what a comma is?



http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/commas.asp

Perhaps you were trying to use ellipsis marks? If so, you're doing it...wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis

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Old
03-20-2013, 09:45 AM
  #60
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In a way the players should learn from columbus, give a ton of effort and play hard. Now that being the case, columbus was bad for the first 20 games playing this way. The only reason they are on this streak and in the playoff hunt is the outrageous play of Sergei Bobrovsky. He has been the best goalie in the league the last month.

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Old
03-20-2013, 09:49 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
CBJ fan who's actually coming in peace. My old user title was "The Last Howsonite", and I still stand by it.

When Howson got to Columbus, there was nearly no actual NHL talent on the roster. The only guys under 30 who were on the roster and productive were Rick Nash and Nikolai Zherdev. Someone named Duvie Westcott was a top-4 defenseman. If a forward went down, the first three names on the call-up sheet were one of Steve Goertzen, Geoff Platt, or Alex Picard. If it was a defenseman, Derrick Walser. If it was a goalie, prayer was a good option because there never were any goalies around.

There was massive dead weight to deal with. A ton of guys were over 30 and way past their primes, there were bloated contracts galore, and there was nothing resembling a farm system.

In one year of Howson, the team had their best season in history to date. In one more year, they were in the playoffs. The roster turnover was massive and nearly immediate. The quality of drafting skyrocketed. Actual NHL prospects could be called up, some of whom (gasp) had actually been picked later than the first round.

I don't care if 50% of CBJ fans think he sucked. I don't care if 75% do. I don't care if 99% do (and there were those who said 99.64% thought that he did). He did a hell of a lot better job here than anyone would give him credit for.

If Edmonton were to can Tambellini and put Howson in...let's just say that it would make me very happy to not be playing the Oilers more than twice a season. Give him as much of a head start on the NHL roster as what you have right now? As a non-Oilers fan, I do not relish that thought...it's frightening.
Great post.

I have also been a huge fan of what Howson has done in Columbus. If he wasn't forced into that Carter trade and had Couturier and Voracek in this lineup i believe they would be an even better team.

The only problem that Howson had was that his Vezina calibre goalie fell off the face of the earth. He built good teams that were playoff caliber if they had even an average goalie.

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Old
03-20-2013, 09:52 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashy View Post
They fired their incompetent GM after placing last, (and a little into this season). That team does not even have one quarter the talent this team has and yet they show more heart then in one of their players then 90% of our team.

They are riding an 11 game point streak. While we waddle of going between sucking and showing a pulse they have passed us in the standings...just think about that for a minute. This was without Rick Nash, and without the 2nd overall pick Ryan Murray. That's how bad the Oilers have sucked.

They have a GM that expects results not losing like Tambellinni has seem to be so content with over the last 4 seasons. In sum I hope this team moves forward from the biggest loser of a GM in the Cap Era.
Last time I checked, the "incompetent GM" fleeced HF Boards Hero Paul Holmgren for the elite goaltender behind the Columbus run and the current GM has had almost no influence on the roster.

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Old
03-20-2013, 04:20 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Could it be that their incompetent GM actually put together a good team that underperformed last season, had awful goaltending and needed the right coach.

Lowe and Tambellini need to hire a good coach. Lowe has hired the same guy to replace him 3 times in a row (Quinn was an even worse mistake). MacRenneuger needs to go and so do the fools who hired them.
Agree with everything you stated.

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Old
03-20-2013, 04:56 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
No one here is going to try and convince you that Howson was Sammy Pollock but you may want to take a glance at the history of the franchise.

He took over a team that had never made the playoffs. In fact prior to his time they had never reached the 75 point level. During his tenure they had 80, 92, 79. 81 and 65 point seasons. Nothing to write home about but not horrible.

Then all the Nash stuff hit the fan. So who knows how much of the 65 point season was a consequence of the turmoil that this caused, including the ill-fated attempt to appease Nash by bringing in Carter et al. What we do know is that Howson had ownership mixed up in the mess as well.

So basically what you have is a team that had typically been running at a low 80 point level take a dive, and without their former star, but with much better goaltending they have returned to the level they had been at recently by playing tough defensive hockey under a coach that Howson hired and with players that Howson brought to the team. If the goaltending holds up they may keep winning. If not they will probably start to lose again regardless of the new GM.
This!

When you couple the depth they added in the Nash/Carter trades with the great goaltending they're getting from Bobrovsky right now, it's not a big surprise that they're winning. They filled needs through trades and are now getting a huge contribution from their goalie.

If Dubnyk were to stop allowing bad goals and our vets showed up regularly we'd probably be in a playoff spot.

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Old
03-20-2013, 05:49 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Not going anywhere but down?

They've cruised past our Oilers in the standing almost effortlessly as of late.

Let's not get on our high horses because they don't have as many 1st overall picks as us.
This just shows that we need more grit . The CBJ are harder to play against then we are . Look at how they out shot us badly in both games . I once said we should trade Eberle for more grit . I got ripped a new one . The fellow said talent trumps grit . I agree some what . We can not continue to be pushed around . we do not need to fight that is over rated . We need fast hard hitting grinders that play a 2 way game .

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:07 PM
  #66
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Yes. We can learn how to find some good depth guys who always play gritty and work. Other than that, no.

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Old
03-21-2013, 12:01 AM
  #67
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We can learn from them by getting Jack Johnson and gaining points in ten straight games. Half way towards one of those goals right now...

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:34 AM
  #68
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Jarmo has done nothing to this team. Howson built a pretty decent team, not a contender by any means, but a team that should be in the hunt most years. The biggest problem was Mason. Now that Bob is getting the majority of the games they are doing well. I'm pretty sure if they didn't play Mason 46 games last year that they wouldn't have been 30th.

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Old
03-22-2013, 08:45 PM
  #69
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The hot streak under the new GM continues.

5-1 over Calgary.

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Old
03-22-2013, 09:58 PM
  #70
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What can we learn from CBJ? We can fire Tambellini and promote Howsen to GM. At least Howsen is capable of acquiring character players, even if he does overpay for them sometimes.

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Old
03-23-2013, 03:08 AM
  #71
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Well, we can certainly learn how to beat NW division teams.

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Old
03-23-2013, 04:28 AM
  #72
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Bobrovsky cant stay hot forever. I thinkwe finish ahead of them by the end of the year.

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Old
03-23-2013, 06:34 AM
  #73
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I think CBJs roster is a bit underrated. Yes they totally lack top line talent, which is pretty much what drives a good team and therefore they're a team that most likely shouldn't be close to playoffs.
But they do have a nice set of d-men, a couple of good 2nd/3rd liners and with the arrival of Bob in net an ok goalie.
They would probably benefit greatly from tanking this year as they lack top line talent amongst their prospects as well. But no matter if they tank or not, they do have three 1st rounders this year in a deep draft.
If Jarmo has a good draft and makes a few smart moves Howson might have set the table for the finn to look like a genius in a few years.

CBJ will probably not be a good team next season or even the year after that but if they play their cards right they might be a good team sooner than a lot of you think.

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Old
03-23-2013, 11:43 PM
  #74
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GM change will not make an impact for a players unless the GM actually makes a trade that improves the lineup. The only positive thing that might have come from firing the GM is a change of attitude in the players knowing a high level person in the organization has been axed. Meaning, change is coming. I doubt Howson was such a negative person in the Blue Jackets organization that upon his firing, players so were overjoyed and pulled a Pittsburgh Penguins circa '09 and will wind up winning it all!

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Old
03-24-2013, 12:10 AM
  #75
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Howson never would have had a chance to see things through. That's just how these things tend to go. It really puzzles me how so many posters in here can't see that, even though Howson has put the pieces in place for the organization, the moment they brought Davidson in was the final cog that sets them in the right direction. I think you're kidding yourself if you underestimate Davidson's influence and abilities. We just saw an example of what his capabilities are as a team President tonight against St. Louis.

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