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Bozak to Hawks

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:42 PM
  #51
Blackhawkswincup
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Bolland is a wreck and all year long the 2nd line has constantly been trapped in its own zone

And he is an embarrassment at faceoff circle (45%)

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:44 PM
  #52
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ESPN Stats & Analysis has been following Kane's every goal this season and breaking each down. Here's a complete look at how Kane has scored his 16 goals this season:

Month scored: 2 in January, 8 in February, 6 in March
Home/Visitor: 5 at home, 11 as a visitor
Period: 5 first, 3 second, 8 third
Type of shot: 10 wrist, 3 backhand, 2 snap, 1 slap
Shot: 13 initial shots, 3 rebounds
Goalie screened on shot: 16 false, 0 true
Where shot from: 5 in front of the net, 5 from the right circle, 3 from the slot, 2 from the left circle, 1 from the right point (empty-netter)
Where scored: 8 high glove, 3 open net, 1 high stick, 1 low stick, 1 low glove, 1 5-hole, 1 empty net
Strength: 9 even-strength goals, 7 power-play goals
From whom: Patrick Sharp 7 assists, Dave Bolland 5, Nick Leddy 3, Jonathan Toews 3, Marcus Kruger 2, Andrew Shaw 2, Duncan Keith 2, Brent Seabrook 1, Marian Hossa 1, Michal Rozsival 1, Viktor Stalberg 1, Brandon Saad 1
On whom: 2 Mike Smith (PHX), 1 Miikka Kiprusoff (CGY), Semyon Varlamov (COL), Richard Bachman (DAL), Jimmy Howard (DET), Nikolai Khabibulin (EDM), Devan Dubnyk (EDM), Yann Danis (EDM), Jonathan Quick (LA), Darcy Kuemper (MIN), Pekka Rinne (NSH), Antti Niemi (SJ), Brian Elliott (STL), Roberto Luongo (VAN).

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:47 PM
  #53
HockeySensible
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Bolland is a wreck and all year long the 2nd line has constantly been trapped in its own zone

And he is an embarrassment at faceoff circle (45%)
Look, everyone gets it. You don't like Bolland as the 2nd line centre. But, you have to stop. I get hyperbole is a big part of your life, but it's honestly just getting embarassing at this point. You're so badly overstating how, in your opinion, "bad", Bolland's been this year.

Kane's been generating a lot of offense given how his line, with Bolland, is "constantly trapped in their own zone".

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Old
03-19-2013, 06:35 PM
  #54
seanlinden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawksTillDeath View Post
We can use him as a 2nd/3rd line C
Great faceoff guy with offensive upside
Suspect D, but on a strong defensive team can be protected

What would be a good value for Bozak?

McNeil?
Toronto is potentially 19 games away from their first playoff appearance in 8 years.

They are not going to trade their #1 centre, and certainly aren't going to do it without a clearly superior centre coming back.

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Old
03-19-2013, 08:14 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Bolland is a wreck and all year long the 2nd line has constantly been trapped in its own zone

And he is an embarrassment at faceoff circle (45%)
Nope. That's all.

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Old
03-19-2013, 08:29 PM
  #56
The Thin White Duke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Toronto is potentially 19 games away from their first playoff appearance in 8 years.

They are not going to trade their #1 centre, and certainly aren't going to do it without a clearly superior centre coming back.
Trade for Ribeiro, trade Bozak to make up some of the assets used on Ribs. Bozak's gone this summer anyway. Fits into Nonis's quote about being both buyers and sellers at the deadline.

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Old
03-19-2013, 08:51 PM
  #57
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If Carlyle continues with his snit about Grabovski, I doubt Bozak gets moved. More likely Grabovski gets moved.

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Old
03-19-2013, 08:52 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by lginger33 View Post
Bozak + for Bolland would be awesome. would allow grabo to be used in a more offensive role.
why trade Bozak+ for Bolland?

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Old
03-19-2013, 08:53 PM
  #59
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We need a top center.

We can't trade Bozak without getting one back
I agree but I also cringe to think about paying him what he can command as a UFA.

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03-19-2013, 08:58 PM
  #60
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I agree but I also cringe to think about paying him what he can command as a UFA.
i wouldn't mind if the Leafs sign him for less than 4m for 3 or 4 years

3.5 would be good

same as Deharnei on montreal

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:00 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by tml145 View Post
why trade Bozak+ for Bolland?
I wont start an argument about who is better....but Bolland is signed for next year, Bozak is not, which instantly makes Bolland more valuable.

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:02 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I wont start an argument about who is better....but Bolland is signed for next year, Bozak is not, which instantly makes Bolland more valuable.
i understand, but that move wouldn't make the Leafs better

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Old
03-19-2013, 09:48 PM
  #63
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by The Thin White Duke View Post
Trade for Ribeiro, trade Bozak to make up some of the assets used on Ribs. Bozak's gone this summer anyway. Fits into Nonis's quote about being both buyers and sellers at the deadline.
Again, a team that is trying to make the playoffs DOES NOT trade their #1 centre. Acquiring Ribeiro is one thing, but doing so does not instantly make Bozak disposable, he'd have to be acquired, then prove that he's a better #1 centre for us than Bozak.

As for him being gone in the summer, I'm curious as to who you spoke to that told you this? Was it Dave Nonis? Tyler Bozak? His Agent? Or are we just speculating... because if we're speculating, let's look at who the Leafs are likely to have available to them this offseason that is a clear upgrade on Bozak? who else is our cap space going to be spent on? what team is going to give Bozak the type of opportunity he has in Toronto? and who is going to help get Phil Kessel signed long term?

My answers to those questions... Nobody, Nobody, None, and Tyler Bozak.

If the Leafs end up selling, it'll be guys who aren't impactful on Toronto's playoff chances. Guys like Clarke MacArthur, John Michael Liles, Tim Connolly -- players who can do more for other organizations than ours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I wont start an argument about who is better....but Bolland is signed for next year, Bozak is not, which instantly makes Bolland more valuable.
Not neccessarily. There's nothing to indicate that Bozak is going to walk as a UFA this summer, so his value to the Leafs is greater than Bolland's would be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kihei View Post
If Carlyle continues with his snit about Grabovski, I doubt Bozak gets moved. More likely Grabovski gets moved.
This, and if Chicago is willing to part with Dave Bolland (I don't think they would be), that's a very good basis for a deal. Get Chicago the true 2nd line centre that can put up points... get Toronto the true 3rd line centre that can shut down the league's best.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:07 PM
  #64
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Bozak for pirri/Mcniel/bolland sounds fine to me.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:08 PM
  #65
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Teuvo or McNeil would probably do it for me, I dont know about other leafs fans though

Mainly because I dont think were competitive and even if we are Bozak is not the reason why, and he wants 4 million to re-sign

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:18 PM
  #66
The Thin White Duke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Again, a team that is trying to make the playoffs DOES NOT trade their #1 centre. Acquiring Ribeiro is one thing, but doing so does not instantly make Bozak disposable, he'd have to be acquired, then prove that he's a better #1 centre for us than Bozak.

As for him being gone in the summer, I'm curious as to who you spoke to that told you this? Was it Dave Nonis? Tyler Bozak? His Agent? Or are we just speculating... because if we're speculating, let's look at who the Leafs are likely to have available to them this offseason that is a clear upgrade on Bozak? who else is our cap space going to be spent on? what team is going to give Bozak the type of opportunity he has in Toronto? and who is going to help get Phil Kessel signed long term?

My answers to those questions... Nobody, Nobody, None, and Tyler Bozak.
This upcoming contract will take Bozak through his prime years, and as such we can logically speculate that he will try to cash in as much as possible. A few members of the Toronto media have echoed this mentality, expecting Bozak to be asking for roughly 4M. Realistically, he won't be signing cheaper than 3.5 mil or so, and frankly I'm not comfortable with having upwards of 8M tied up in 2 undersized 2nd/3rd line centers in Bozak and Grabo. Bozak is our number one by proxy, ideally he's a 3rd line center on a competitor. If we had an actual number one, this wouldn't be a problem as Bozak would be lined up for a reasonable 3rd line salary. As it stands, we'd be paying a 3rd line quality player upper-end 2nd line money.

If you can't see how Ribeiro wouldn't be an instant upgrade while he's playing at PPG+ right now, I can't really help you. It's not like Bozak provides any intangibles or incredible defense to make up for the gap in point production. I'd much rather spend Bozak's money on a Weiss or Ribeiro this summer. The Kessel point is completely irrelevant, these are grown men being paid millions to play a sport, I sincerely doubt that Tyler Bozak is the difference between signing Kessel or not. In the unlikely event he is, I'd really rather just trade Kessel then instead of trying to appease a man-child who won't sign without his BFF.

Long story short, if the Leafs can upgrade Bozak to Ribeiro without giving up too much more futures than we gain back, they'd be stupid not to do it.

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:33 PM
  #67
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by The Thin White Duke View Post
This upcoming contract will take Bozak through his prime years, and as such we can logically speculate that he will try to cash in as much as possible. A few members of the Toronto media have echoed this mentality, expecting Bozak to be asking for roughly 4M. Realistically, he won't be signing cheaper than 3.5 mil or so, and frankly I'm not comfortable with having upwards of 8M tied up in 2 undersized 2nd/3rd line centers in Bozak and Grabo. Bozak is our number one by proxy, ideally he's a 3rd line center on a competitor. If we had an actual number one, this wouldn't be a problem as Bozak would be lined up for a reasonable 3rd line salary. As it stands, we'd be paying a 3rd line quality player upper-end 2nd line money.

If you can't see how Ribeiro wouldn't be an instant upgrade while he's playing at PPG+ right now, I can't really help you. It's not like Bozak provides any intangibles or incredible defense to make up for the gap in point production. I'd much rather spend Bozak's money on a Weiss or Ribeiro this summer. The Kessel point is completely irrelevant, these are grown men being paid millions to play a sport, I sincerely doubt that Tyler Bozak is the difference between signing Kessel or not. In the unlikely event he is, I'd really rather just trade Kessel then instead of trying to appease a man-child who won't sign without his BFF.

Long story short, if the Leafs can upgrade Bozak to Ribeiro without giving up too much more futures than we gain back, they'd be stupid not to do it.
Of course, like any player, he wants to get paid fair market value. But, just like any other player, he likely wants to be an important piece to his team. There's very few teams where Tyler Bozak would be a #1 centre and have the opportunity to play with a talent like Phil Kessel.

We keep hearing this $4m figure as if it's something bad... who are we going to get that's a better centre for Phil Kessel for $4m??? Is our cap situation next year going to prevent us from doing something we want to because we're paying Tyler Bozak $4m??? In case you haven't checked, $4m is what below average 2nd line centres go for. If we can get him for that, we should consider ourselves lucky.

If you've got a problem with our 1st and 3rd line centre taking up a combined ~$10m in space, your problem is more likely related to the $5.5m 3rd line C then it is the $4m 1st line C.

Ribeiro isn't an instant upgrade to our team. He's a 1-way player who's weak on the puck. Phil Kessel needs a two-way player (which Bozak is) who's strong on the puck. Tyler Bozak's puck strength isn't that of a Joe Thornton or Ryan Getzlaf, but it's leaps and bounds ahead of Mike Ribeiro's.

You can manage with an attitude, saying that if players don't do what you like, you'll just trade them. Or you can objectively ask yourself, what's the path of least resistance to win hockey games. The path of least resistance, is Tyler Bozak as the team's #1 centre until they can get a centre substantially better than him that makes Phil Kessel forget all about playing with Bozak.

Long story short -- if the Leafs traded Tyler Bozak to get Mike Ribeiro, we'd be back to the JFJ days of management... get guys with a decent history of production, no consideration about actually putting your players in a position to succeed / get the most value out of them.

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Old
03-20-2013, 04:03 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeKidPoker View Post
ESPN Stats & Analysis has been following Kane's every goal this season and breaking each down. Here's a complete look at how Kane has scored his 16 goals this season:

Month scored: 2 in January, 8 in February, 6 in March
Home/Visitor: 5 at home, 11 as a visitor
Period: 5 first, 3 second, 8 third
Type of shot: 10 wrist, 3 backhand, 2 snap, 1 slap
Shot: 13 initial shots, 3 rebounds
Goalie screened on shot: 16 false, 0 true
Where shot from: 5 in front of the net, 5 from the right circle, 3 from the slot, 2 from the left circle, 1 from the right point (empty-netter)
Where scored: 8 high glove, 3 open net, 1 high stick, 1 low stick, 1 low glove, 1 5-hole, 1 empty net
Strength: 9 even-strength goals, 7 power-play goals
From whom: Patrick Sharp 7 assists, Dave Bolland 5, Nick Leddy 3, Jonathan Toews 3, Marcus Kruger 2, Andrew Shaw 2, Duncan Keith 2, Brent Seabrook 1, Marian Hossa 1, Michal Rozsival 1, Viktor Stalberg 1, Brandon Saad 1
On whom: 2 Mike Smith (PHX), 1 Miikka Kiprusoff (CGY), Semyon Varlamov (COL), Richard Bachman (DAL), Jimmy Howard (DET), Nikolai Khabibulin (EDM), Devan Dubnyk (EDM), Yann Danis (EDM), Jonathan Quick (LA), Darcy Kuemper (MIN), Pekka Rinne (NSH), Antti Niemi (SJ), Brian Elliott (STL), Roberto Luongo (VAN).
All he needs to do is score a goal tonight and he will have scored at least one goal against every team in the Western Conference.

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Old
03-20-2013, 06:30 AM
  #69
seanlinden
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So what would it take to get a Bolland & Grabovski swap going?

Bolland + Olesz + 2nd for Grabovski + MacArthur?

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Old
03-20-2013, 06:31 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
So what would it take to get a Bolland & Grabovski swap going?

Bolland + Olesz + 2nd for Grabovski + MacArthur?
I doubt Chicago wants Grabo. Salary is too high, and he holds onto the puck too much, wouldn't exactly compliment Kane particularly well.

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Old
03-20-2013, 06:34 AM
  #71
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I doubt Chicago wants Grabo. Salary is too high, and he holds onto the puck too much, wouldn't exactly compliment Kane particularly well.
That's why Olesz is included.

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Old
03-20-2013, 06:34 AM
  #72
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Bozak makes sense but I don't see it happening. Grabo is too pricey for the Hawks to take on and there is no way the Leafs keep some of his money

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Old
03-20-2013, 07:43 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Bolland is a wreck and all year long the 2nd line has constantly been trapped in its own zone
This is obviously your opinion, but it is one that is not shared by many. Its one of those vague arguments people throw out when they are grasping at straws because you can't actually prove that it is wrong.

Quote:
And he is an embarrassment at faceoff circle (45%)
Not much argument from me there, which is why I think the top priority for this team is getting a 4th line, right hander that is good at faceoffs.

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Old
03-20-2013, 08:51 AM
  #74
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Bozak for McNeil or the 1st sounds great to me assuming we believe we can't resign him. I like Bozak and all but if he is thinking of asking for 4m + because he plays on the first line I say trade him at the deadline as a rental and deal. Try and use that 1st to get a kid like Kerby Rychel and call it a good day.

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Old
03-20-2013, 09:11 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tml145 View Post
i understand, but that move wouldn't make the Leafs better
But it would, because Bolland is better than Bozak.

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