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Long-term roster-building discussion (Full contract chart in post #1)

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:24 AM
  #226
JTG
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
he's one of the best defensemen in the league. I hope Shero disagrees with you. He is worth every penny.
One of the best 5 on 5 defensemen in the league. Probably THE best. That's not worth 7 million dollars a year though.

The fact that we will still have to pay a guy good money to man our powerplay with Letang here bothers me, and the fact that we'll probably still need good top unit PK'ing defensemen with Letang here bothers me less, but is still something to consider when talking about giving him 7 million dollars. If he was playing a game like Paul Martin (being a factor in all 3 phases of the game) and still putting up the points he has been...yeah...give the dude 7 million and never look back.

You give a guy that kind of money, he should be a top PPQB in the league, and a top unit PK'er like Lidstrom was, Chara, Pietro, and Weber are. That's why he wouldn't be worth every penny of 7 million dollars, IMO.

I think if Letang were to sign a deal for 7 million dollars, people would grow increasingly tired of him simply being a great 5 on 5 defenseman, all the while sucking hard on the powerplay, and being a 2nd unit PK'er. And this year, he isn't even drawing matchups and playing a shutdown role for the team. Paul Martin is, which really frees Letang up to do what he does offensively. It's not like he's doing what he's doing offensively while watching the other team's top guys every night.

I won't freak out if Letang signs for 7 million dollars as on 5 on 5, I truly enjoy watching him, but I won't think it's a great deal for us.


Last edited by JTG: 03-19-2013 at 02:35 AM.
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03-19-2013, 02:48 AM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
he's one of the best defensemen in the league. I hope Shero disagrees with you. He is worth every penny.
I don't believe he is worth 7 million. Any puckmoving D-man with decent hockey IQ and wheels playing major minutes on the Pens with our top6 on the ice is going to get a lot of points. Not as many as Letang is now unless he is very good of course, but being on the highest scoring team in the league and playing almost half the game... that is an inflator.
More so when he is also getting team leading minutes on the (very productive) PP despite not being very good at it. Add that he is not a great penalty killer and has never led our D to any kind of success in the post season (when we won he was our 6th D-man ES).

Love Letang on the Pens, but I don't think he has earned that kind of money.... but if he demands it.... we might be in the situation that we have to pay it to him, because the return wouldn't justify a trade. Would say that Shero should definitely look into options if we get to that kind of number though.

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03-19-2013, 05:14 AM
  #228
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This is just to show that we can make a roster when there are new contracts coming. Don't pay too much attention on certain players. Inexperienced defence, but I just wanted to show:

2014-15

Malkin, Evgeni $10,000,000
Crosby, Sidney $8,700,000
Neal, James $5,000,000
Iginla, Jarome $5,000,000
Sutter, Brandon $4,000,000
Kunitz, Chris $3,725,000
Dupuis, Pascal $2,500,000
Armstrong, Colby $1,250,000
Boll, Jared $1,250,000
Bennett, Beau $900,000
Vitale, Joe $675,000
Uher, Dominik $600,000

$43,600,000

Letang, Kris $7,500,000
Martin, Paul $5,000,000
Despres, Simon $3,500,000
Engelland, Deryk $1,500,000
Pouliot, Derrick $1,350,000
Harrington, Scott $894,167
Morrow, Joe $894,167

$20,640,000

Fleury, M. $5,000,000
Zatkoff, Jeff $600,000

$5,600,000
----------------

TOTAL: $69,840,000

KUNITZ - CROSBY - IGINLA
BENNETT - MALKIN - NEAL
DUPUIS - SUTTER - ARMSTRONG
UHER - VITALE - BOLL

DESPRES - LETANG
MORROW - MARTIN
HARRINGTON - ENGELLAND
(POULIOT)

FLEURY
ZATKOFF


Last edited by Muscles4Malkin: 03-19-2013 at 11:27 AM. Reason: New CBA rule. Malkin's cap hit won't be under $10M most likely.
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Old
03-19-2013, 10:22 AM
  #229
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Related to the future roster, I was laughing yesterday at Madden saying that Letang is more important to the Penguins than Malkin. Taking out the fact that Malkin is the 2nd best player in the world, the one rebuttal against this thought process would be what are James Neal’s numbers without Malkin in the line up? I remember him going like 1 goal in his first 30 games and now his goal totals are slowing down again when Malkin has been out of the line up. I am sure the Malkin in the line up vs. out of the line up differential is staggering. Of course, you can always say “Well he would just play with Crosby”. Well he isn’t now.

Does anyone know Neal’s number with Malkin in compared to out?

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03-19-2013, 10:24 AM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherogoesHAM View Post
Related to the future roster, I was laughing yesterday at Madden saying that Letang is more important to the Penguins than Malkin. Taking out the fact that Malkin is the 2nd best player in the world, the one rebuttal against this thought process would be what are James Neal’s numbers without Malkin in the line up? I remember him going like 1 goal in his first 30 games and now his goal totals are slowing down again when Malkin has been out of the line up. I am sure the Malkin in the line up vs. out of the line up differential is staggering. Of course, you can always say “Well he would just play with Crosby”. Well he isn’t now.

Does anyone know Neal’s number with Malkin in compared to out?
Yeah it's pretty idiotic, a generational player versus a very good 2-way D. Sorry, Malkin wins every time.

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03-19-2013, 01:36 PM
  #231
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Without Paul Martin and Brooks Orpik, Letang's contract should be well worth it for us. And without those two, Letang will play harder minutes for us and probably round out his game.

He's a lot like Doughty, in fact. Doughty this season has altered his game a little to fit what the Kings needed from him, minus two stalwart defensive defensemen (Mitchell and Greene). Some will say Doughty is having a bad year. He's having a bad offensive year, yes. But not defensively. He's also set the tone on many nights with huge hits for them.

I see Letang as a very adaptable defender. When the veterans won't be here any longer, I think Letang will adjust his game accordingly.

I'm not saying I'd give him anything he wants, but his demands would have to get beyond outrageous for me to have any issue with his next contract.

He is an extremely valuable piece, moreso for the less noticeable things than the flashy point totals.

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03-19-2013, 02:01 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherogoesHAM View Post
Related to the future roster, I was laughing yesterday at Madden saying that Letang is more important to the Penguins than Malkin. Taking out the fact that Malkin is the 2nd best player in the world, the one rebuttal against this thought process would be what are James Neal’s numbers without Malkin in the line up? I remember him going like 1 goal in his first 30 games and now his goal totals are slowing down again when Malkin has been out of the line up. I am sure the Malkin in the line up vs. out of the line up differential is staggering. Of course, you can always say “Well he would just play with Crosby”. Well he isn’t now.

Does anyone know Neal’s number with Malkin in compared to out?



Madden is a malkin hater... even though he tries to hide it.

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Old
03-19-2013, 05:24 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscles4Malkin View Post
This is just to show that we can make a roster when there are new contracts coming. Don't pay too much attention on certain players. Inexperienced defence, but I just wanted to show:

2014-15

Malkin, Evgeni $10,000,000
Crosby, Sidney $8,700,000
Neal, James $5,000,000
Iginla, Jarome $5,000,000
Sutter, Brandon $4,000,000
Kunitz, Chris $3,725,000
Dupuis, Pascal $2,500,000
Armstrong, Colby $1,250,000
Boll, Jared $1,250,000
Bennett, Beau $900,000
Vitale, Joe $675,000
Uher, Dominik $600,000

$43,600,000

Letang, Kris $7,500,000
Martin, Paul $5,000,000
Despres, Simon $3,500,000
Engelland, Deryk $1,500,000
Pouliot, Derrick $1,350,000
Harrington, Scott $894,167
Morrow, Joe $894,167

$20,640,000

Fleury, M. $5,000,000
Zatkoff, Jeff $600,000

$5,600,000
----------------

TOTAL: $69,840,000

KUNITZ - CROSBY - IGINLA
BENNETT - MALKIN - NEAL
DUPUIS - SUTTER - ARMSTRONG
UHER - VITALE - BOLL

DESPRES - LETANG
MORROW - MARTIN
HARRINGTON - ENGELLAND
(POULIOT)

FLEURY
ZATKOFF
To bad the salary will be lowered to about 64mil, if Pits picks up Iginla this season they will not keep him unless he take a big paycut, if Pits picks up anybody this year I hope it is a winger like Seto, Kulemin, Stewart who are all making 3m. Letang will not be signed for 7.5m he will likely go for 6-6.5m.

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Old
03-20-2013, 07:06 AM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rylansmith View Post
To bad the salary will be lowered to about 64mil, if Pits picks up Iginla this season they will not keep him unless he take a big paycut, if Pits picks up anybody this year I hope it is a winger like Seto, Kulemin, Stewart who are all making 3m. Letang will not be signed for 7.5m he will likely go for 6-6.5m.
2014-15, really? Next year it will be 64,3mil and I thought it will go up again, let's say ~68-70mil(?)

And you are dreaming if you think Letang will settle for that low. Watch and see how it will be ~7mil.

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03-20-2013, 07:14 AM
  #235
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Letang has to be willing to sign first. I can completely see him saying he wants to go to free agency, and in which case, we may have another top pick this draft

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03-24-2013, 01:56 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscles4Malkin View Post
2014-15, really? Next year it will be 64,3mil and I thought it will go up again, let's say ~68-70mil(?)

And you are dreaming if you think Letang will settle for that low. Watch and see how it will be ~7mil.
Yep. The floor for Letang is 6.5m... And that is giving this team a discount to be honest. It likely will not be anywhere south of 7m per, but lets say he comes in an wants to give Shero a discount. Even in a discount situation I do not see it going south of 6.5m. That is the ABSOLUTE lowest we will retain Letang for.

People can disagree... But I am bookmarking this post for when he is signed, or traded and signed and that number is in the 7m +/-, I will quote this.


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03-24-2013, 03:24 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Letang will get 8 years at $6.5m minimum and be worth it.
And he'll be overpaid by at least 500k if we do offer that.

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Old
03-25-2013, 03:01 PM
  #238
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With Murray and Morrow UFA's in the summer. What would we offer should we want to keep or would be looking to let one go to get under the cap?

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03-25-2013, 03:49 PM
  #239
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With Murray and Morrow UFA's in the summer. What would we offer should we want to keep or would be looking to let one go to get under the cap?
I'm pretty sure they are both pure rentals until the team sees them play. They aren't sure things to have long, glorious careers. Although Murray should theoretically be a much cheaper signing.

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03-27-2013, 12:17 AM
  #240
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Pretend you are Ray Shero and its the 1st round of the 2013 NHL draft.

Malkin has signed for eight years to a reasonable cap hit.
Letang is still not signed and is wanting to break the bank. Although he has another whole year on his contract you realize it's just not going to get done. You also realize that when one door closes another opens up. (see Jordan Staal)

Out of all the other Gm's in the league who do you call and what is your asking price (what do you expect) for Kristopher Letang?

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03-27-2013, 05:53 PM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
Pretend you are Ray Shero and its the 1st round of the 2013 NHL draft.

Malkin has signed for eight years to a reasonable cap hit.
Letang is still not signed and is wanting to break the bank. Although he has another whole year on his contract you realize it's just not going to get done. You also realize that when one door closes another opens up. (see Jordan Staal)

Out of all the other Gm's in the league who do you call and what is your asking price (what do you expect) for Kristopher Letang?
The team that makes the best offer.(Not in our division)

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03-27-2013, 06:38 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I'm pretty sure they are both pure rentals until the team sees them play. They aren't sure things to have long, glorious careers. Although Murray should theoretically be a much cheaper signing.
I think both would sign for less than what the make now.

I agree, have to see them play, see what they're capable of on this team.

I would think that Morrow would be extended just on the fact that we traded a good prospect for him alone, also, Joe Neiuwendyk hinted that he could be here for a couple years.

I think Murray could be extended if he plays solid.

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03-28-2013, 01:58 AM
  #243
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Iginla Contract Extension

Do we open talks now and if so how much how long?

4 years 20 mill would be my offer

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03-28-2013, 02:01 AM
  #244
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I think he'd be apprehensive to sign anything before playing a few games to see if it's everything he expected. He's got all the cards and he'll be getting offers better than 5 mil a year, so to take a discount, he'll have to want to be in Pittsburgh. He also won't negotiate during playoffs; players never do. I don't realistically see any discussions happening until the off season.

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03-28-2013, 02:05 AM
  #245
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It's hard to imagine Iginla even thinking about entering negotiations until after the playoffs are over.


If we win I think he goes back to Calgary, if we don't then I think he sticks around.

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03-28-2013, 02:05 AM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
Do we open talks now and if so how much how long?

4 years 20 mill would be my offer
I could give 2 ***** less about anything contract related for next season right now. I think we should all enjoy what we have right now.

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03-28-2013, 02:06 AM
  #247
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I think he'd be apprehensive to sign anything before playing a few games to see if it's everything he expected. He's got all the cards and he'll be getting offers better than 5 mil a year, so to take a discount, he'll have to want to be in Pittsburgh. He also won't negotiate during playoffs; players never do. I don't realistically see any discussions happening until the off season.
I do not see him getting better offers than 5 a year at this stage. especially for 4 year deal. Cap goes down next year.

Extending him before the playoffs is not out of the question.

Id try to extend him now with more money upfront next season than the following seasons

Also I wonder if this might encourage Malkin to another Sid matching deal

http://www.capgeek.com/penguins/

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03-28-2013, 02:07 AM
  #248
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Molinari gives a slight peek into Shero's thinking on this topic with a late night blog post.

Quote:
Shero said the Penguins have not made a decision about whether to try to re-sign Iginla, who will be an unrestricted free agent this summer, but noted that “he’s 35 years old, not 45.”

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03-28-2013, 02:08 AM
  #249
Master Shake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
It's hard to imagine Iginla even thinking about entering negotiations until after the playoffs are over.


If we win I think he goes back to Calgary, if we don't then I think he sticks around.


Im not so sure he goes back to Calgary even if he wins a Cup this year. Winning can have that effect as opposed to missing the playoffs over and over.

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03-28-2013, 02:45 AM
  #250
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Yeah, definitely enjoy the fact we have him for this season. But I'm sure Shero realizes he has plenty of hockey left in him. If Iggy would like to end his career here, awesome.

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