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Vanek to Edmonton

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:33 PM
  #76
Beerz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKQ View Post
Consistent scoring over the past few seasons, both from season to season and throughout the season, as well as younger players who have matched or bettered Vanek's best season over the last several seasons(in a study of current players I don't think >3 seasons ago is particularly relevant, which you could easily dispute since it's just an arbitrary number which I think is pretty reasonable).

Basically, where you rank Vanek depends on how you view his recent body of work, and the emphasis you put on his hot start and subsequent slump. If you weigh the first 20 games of this season heavily, he is definitely an elite forward. If you consider his sub-par years last year and in 2010, as well as his one-dimensional playing style in comparison to players of similar offensive production on the list (Sharp and Bergeron, who both get tons of Selke votes), he is a very good, 1st-line calibre forward, but not elite. Basically that's my stance, and winding it back all the way my point is that I don't think it's reasonable to ask for an elite potential forward (Edmonton's big 4) for a non-elite current forward. Clearly since you watch him 82+ times a year and he is your best skater, you will view him in a different light than me.
I don't think Vanek is "elite".... Elite to me is top 5-10... Sharp and Bergeron certainly aren't elite. Majority on your list are not elite.

You like many others fail to see that nobody has any issues with Edmonton not wanting to give up one of the big 4 for Vanek.... especially considering that they are not ready to challenge yet... it would be dumb in my opinion..... However...if a deal was made... one of the big 4 would have to be coming back... nothing unreasonable about that.

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:38 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
I don't think Vanek is "elite".... Elite to me is top 5-10... Sharp and Bergeron certainly aren't elite. Majority on your list are not elite.

You like many others fail to see that nobody has any issues with Edmonton not wanting to give up one of the big 4 for Vanek.... especially considering that they are not ready to challenge yet... it would be dumb in my opinion..... However...if a deal was made... one of the big 4 would have to be coming back... nothing unreasonable about that.
That's true, I suppose. I wouldn't personally move him for a pick and a prospect either were I Buffalo right now, but given the OP's premise that Buffalo is selling off all valuable assets, I think demanding a young player like those out of Edmonton's calibre would be unreasonable, and I think the OP's offer of picks and a good prospect is more fair

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03-19-2013, 12:42 PM
  #78
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Yakupov, Klefborm (Spelling?), 2nd for Vanek ??

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03-19-2013, 12:43 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKQ View Post
Consistent scoring over the past few seasons, both from season to season and throughout the season, as well as younger players who have matched or bettered Vanek's best season over the last several seasons(in a study of current players I don't think >3 seasons ago is particularly relevant, which you could easily dispute since it's just an arbitrary number which I think is pretty reasonable).

Basically, where you rank Vanek depends on how you view his recent body of work, and the emphasis you put on his hot start and subsequent slump. If you weigh the first 20 games of this season heavily, he is definitely an elite forward. If you consider his sub-par years last year and in 2010, as well as his one-dimensional playing style in comparison to players of similar offensive production on the list (Sharp and Bergeron, who both get tons of Selke votes), he is a very good, 1st-line calibre forward, but not elite. Basically that's my stance, and winding it back all the way my point is that I don't think it's reasonable to ask for an elite potential forward (Edmonton's big 4) for a non-elite current forward. Clearly since you watch him 82+ times a year and he is your best skater, you will view him in a different light than me.
Actually, I will view him in a lot different light, and while you won't agree, it has nothing to do with me being a "homer." Besides, you are rather cherry-picking your not really objective criteria there. Your choice of course, but don't criticize others much if they don't agree with you.

Whether you want to give up one of your top four for Vanek, that's another matter.

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:43 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
I don't think Vanek is "elite".... Elite to me is top 5-10... Sharp and Bergeron certainly aren't elite. Majority on your list are not elite.

You like many others fail to see that nobody has any issues with Edmonton not wanting to give up one of the big 4 for Vanek.... especially considering that they are not ready to challenge yet... it would be dumb in my opinion..... However...if a deal was made... one of the big 4 would have to be coming back... nothing unreasonable about that.
It depends how you forecast the 2013 pick... really if it's top three or even five as this team is "capable" of we are talking a big five... I myself would balk at Jones for Vanek (less at least than if it was that or Yakupov for Vanek). If that was as low as the pick got, we couldn't complain as a team or fanbase if that was what we gave up unknowingly... like the Leafs you take that risk and hope for the best

So I guess really Sabres fans have a clear choice... Yakupov+ something for Vanek is apparently superior to Jones+ something for Vanek... not the choice I am making if I am rebuilding a team like Buffalo and look to build from the blueline out...

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Old
03-19-2013, 12:49 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
Actually, I will view him in a lot different light, and while you won't agree, it has nothing to do with me being a "homer." Besides, you are rather cherry-picking your not really objective criteria there. Your choice of course, but don't criticize others much if they don't agree with you.

Whether you want to give up one of your top four for Vanek, that's another matter.
I didn't say homer, I just said that you obviously value Vanek more highly due to the impact he has made for your team over a long period of time. Just like I (I'm a Devils fan btw, I don't even know how I got sucked into this debate) would value Zajac higher than you would now since he has proven to those who follow his team his worth over the past several seasons.

And I don't see how my criteria was particularly subjective here. Every player I've listed has produced at least one statistically superior or equivalent season within the last several years to Vanek, and those who are equivalent have been acknowledged to be among the league leaders defensively

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03-19-2013, 01:05 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Buffalo counters: Picks+Prospects for Hall. Edm would be stupid to turn it down.
I think you already made your point a couple of posts ago. You don't believe the Edmonton fanbase has any business proposing trades that do not include a 1st overall pick.

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03-19-2013, 01:10 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Vanek easily would require one of the top 4 on Edmonton....

Whether you want to part with them for any reason is a totally different story.

No big 4.... no Vanek... simple as that.
Hmmm 1 year of Vanek or 6 years of a 1st overall pick. Your right.. The oilers would be nuts not to trade 6 years of Taylor Hall for 8 months of Vanek.

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Old
03-19-2013, 01:13 PM
  #84
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is 4 1st rounders still on the table.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:21 PM
  #85
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Quote:
don't think Vanek is "elite".... Elite to me is top 5-10.

ok in NHL are only 10 Players the are elite.?!!
Wait
St.Louis, Crosby, Ovechkin,Thornton, Jagr, Selanne, Stamkos, Malkin, Iginla, Kovalchuuk, Kovalev, Hossa, Lecavalier so go on..thats OFFENS Player
Defens
Goaltender
no elite??
..
Sorry but for me is "Elite Player" they lead a Team among other things.Vanek "lead" the Team, Vanek is Every Year the Top Goal scorer (except 06 and 12) in Buffalo. Vanek has his bad moments in a season thats right, but to the end he have since 2006 every year shot 25 or more Goals. Give Vanek better teammates , wenn stamkos hase his bad time in a season st.louis/Lecavalier help him, have Crosby bad times Malkin comes to help,...Vanek have nobody with his talent in team and yet he was the best PP Goal Scorer 2009 and was among the 10 best scorer in the NHL(07 and 09).and that season he is -top 15 in Points- to the end i think.
No elite ok for you, but for me more elite players as 10.

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:53 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Edmonton is nearing the end of their rebuild. Buffalo is beginning theirs. Its legitimate to wonder if Buffalo is selling everything. Its stupid to counter with bs.
The rebuild won't be complete until they clean-house with at laughing stock of a management team...

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Old
03-19-2013, 02:56 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slovakia18 View Post

ok in NHL are only 10 Players the are elite.?!!
Wait
St.Louis, Crosby, Ovechkin,Thornton, Jagr, Selanne, Stamkos, Malkin, Iginla, Kovalchuuk, Kovalev, Hossa, Lecavalier so go on..thats OFFENS Player
Defens
Goaltender
no elite??
..
Sorry but for me is "Elite Player" they lead a Team among other things.Vanek "lead" the Team, Vanek is Every Year the Top Goal scorer (except 06 and 12) in Buffalo. Vanek has his bad moments in a season thats right, but to the end he have since 2006 every year shot 25 or more Goals. Give Vanek better teammates , wenn stamkos hase his bad time in a season st.louis/Lecavalier help him, have Crosby bad times Malkin comes to help,...Vanek have nobody with his talent in team and yet he was the best PP Goal Scorer 2009 and was among the 10 best scorer in the NHL(07 and 09).and that season he is -top 15 in Points- to the end i think.
No elite ok for you, but for me more elite players as 10.
What year do you live in?!

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Old
03-19-2013, 03:03 PM
  #88
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Even if they were signed for the same amount for life, I wouldn't trade Hall straight up for Vanek.

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Old
03-20-2013, 05:43 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sokocanuck View Post
What year do you live in?!
jagr, selanne not Elite yet?
Ok than do D.Sedin H.Sedin, Zetterberg, Datsyuk to the "no Elite List"- from @beertz more than 5 dont exist !

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Old
03-20-2013, 08:22 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slovakia18 View Post
jagr, selanne not Elite yet?
Ok than do D.Sedin H.Sedin, Zetterberg, Datsyuk to the "no Elite List"- from @beertz more than 5 dont exist !
Not elite anymore.

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Old
03-20-2013, 08:50 AM
  #91
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Wouldn't it make more sense for Edmonton to move that package for a guy like Yandle instead?

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Old
03-20-2013, 09:29 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slovakia18 View Post
jagr, selanne not Elite yet?
Ok than do D.Sedin H.Sedin, Zetterberg, Datsyuk to the "no Elite List"- from @beertz more than 5 dont exist !
You said Kovalev. Kovalev hasn't been relavent for at least 4 years now

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:03 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slovakia18 View Post

ok in NHL are only 10 Players the are elite.?!!
Wait
St.Louis, Crosby, Ovechkin,Thornton, Jagr, Selanne, Stamkos, Malkin, Iginla, Kovalchuuk, Kovalev, Hossa, Lecavalier so go on..thats OFFENS Player
Defens
Goaltender
no elite??
..
Sorry but for me is "Elite Player" they lead a Team among other things.Vanek "lead" the Team, Vanek is Every Year the Top Goal scorer (except 06 and 12) in Buffalo. Vanek has his bad moments in a season thats right, but to the end he have since 2006 every year shot 25 or more Goals. Give Vanek better teammates , wenn stamkos hase his bad time in a season st.louis/Lecavalier help him, have Crosby bad times Malkin comes to help,...Vanek have nobody with his talent in team and yet he was the best PP Goal Scorer 2009 and was among the 10 best scorer in the NHL(07 and 09).and that season he is -top 15 in Points- to the end i think.
No elite ok for you, but for me more elite players as 10.
Edmonton was a game away from winning the Cup in 06. Does that make them a Stanley Cup contender in 2013? Teams change, and so do players.

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:16 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Epic Neal Time View Post
Wouldn't it make more sense for Edmonton to move that package for a guy like Yandle instead?
Probably not. Yandle is by far the most sheltered d-man on Phoenix's roster. Not gonna be of any help keeping pucks out of their own net or be a "do-it-all" type defender, which seems to be what they most need on the back end.

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:17 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by sokocanuck View Post
The rebuild won't be complete until they clean-house with at laughing stock of a management team...
I see your Oiler trolling continues. You aren't incorrect, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread.

Did Kevin Lowe sleep with your wife? If not, why the hate for the Oilers?

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:21 AM
  #96
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I would hate to lose Vanek

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:33 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Probably not. Yandle is by far the most sheltered d-man on Phoenix's roster. Not gonna be of any help keeping pucks out of their own net or be a "do-it-all" type defender, which seems to be what they most need on the back end.
Actually the Oilers defense and goaltending woes are a myth. They are one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. A guy like Yandle would help get the puck up to our skilled forwards

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