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Top European of All Time (NHL ONLY)

View Poll Results: Best Euro
Hasek 94 37.30%
Lidstrom 58 23.02%
Jagr 77 30.56%
Forsberg 13 5.16%
Selanne 5 1.98%
Kurri 2 0.79%
Other - no non-nhlers, not comparable 3 1.19%
Voters: 252. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:16 AM
  #26
Epsilon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djeez View Post
Forsberg underrated as hell on here.
Not at all.

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:19 AM
  #27
hatterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djeez View Post
Forsberg underrated as hell on here.
Because he doesn't beat out the most dominant goaltender of all time, a guy who is #8 on the all time scoring list and has nearly double his career points, and a guy who was judged to be the best player at his position 7 times total?

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:04 AM
  #28
LaGu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djeez View Post
Forsberg underrated as hell on here.
How is being on this list, and getting some votes, being underrated? FTR Forsberg is my favorite player all time, but I still don't see how it anyone can justify putting him above Hasek.

Not even going to the stats part of this: 5 Hart nominations, 2 Hart wins. 2 Lester B., 6 Venzia, 2 Jennings...

The only other Europeans with that kind of recognition are Jagr and Lidstrom IMO.

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:30 AM
  #29
MastuhNinks
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For me it's 1) Jagr 2) Hasek 3) Lidstrom.

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:33 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
I think Hasek blows away the competition in Peak, Dominance, Contribution to his team, and attribution of team success to the player.

He played on teams that otherwise would have been competing for a lottery pick and consistently took them to the playoffs and once to the cup finals.

As far as dominance and peak goes. From 93-94 until 00-01 which was Hasek's time as a starter in Buffalo he was basically lapping the goalie field. Among NHL goalies with >100 starts during that time he is far and away the leader in save percentage at .928 with Roy 2nd at .915, Shields 3rd at .913 and a few others (including Brodeur) at .912.
Thanks for saving my time.

I do think that it's very close between those three. For me it's between Jagr and Hasek, despite Lidstrom's greatness for a long long period, I just value peak/prime a bit higher. But going by the OP's criteria, which explicitly include impact on team performance, I think Hasek should be the front runner here. Take a look at those Sabres rosters and then look at their place in the standings - they just shouldn't be there. And I'm really not saying this to discredit those teams, I really like(d) the Sabres and many of their players. But they were an at most average team with deep playoff runs, and Hasek played a central role in them.

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:59 AM
  #31
Djeez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
Because he doesn't beat out the most dominant goaltender of all time, a guy who is #8 on the all time scoring list and has nearly double his career points, and a guy who was judged to be the best player at his position 7 times total?
Okay I'll rephrase it. Jagr is overrated as hell around here.

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Old
03-20-2013, 12:14 PM
  #32
CoachBadkitten
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Hasek for sure.

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Old
03-20-2013, 12:17 PM
  #33
Epsilon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djeez View Post
Okay I'll rephrase it. Jagr is overrated as hell around here.
That's just as dumb a comment as saying Forsberg is underrated.

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Old
03-20-2013, 12:19 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djeez View Post
Okay I'll rephrase it. Jagr is overrated as hell around here.
How? He's 8th all time on the scoring list, and if he would have been in the NHL from 2008-11 he could very well be 6 or higher.

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Old
03-20-2013, 12:38 PM
  #35
JackSlater
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Hasek (top 10 all time)
Jagr (top 10 all time)
Lidstrom (top 25 all time)

Followed by a decent gap, with interesting arguments to be made for many players.

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03-20-2013, 12:59 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djeez View Post
Okay I'll rephrase it. Jagr is overrated as hell around here.
I will give one thing, but this is my personal opinion: I don't think that there has been any player who could literally single-handedly (don't know if that really a word but you get what I mean) take over a game as Forsberg did sometimes.

That said, we're talking about Jagr. Jagr; 5 times Art Ross, 3 times Lester B., most goals and points over a single season for a European player, etc. etc.

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Old
03-20-2013, 01:21 PM
  #37
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As much as I would love to vote for Selanne, Jagr finishes top of my list if looking objectively:

- Among active NHL players first in points, goals, assists, plus/minus (+280) and game-winning goals (114), and second in games played (1346)

- 15 consecutive 70-or-more point NHL seasons from 1992-2008, an NHL record

- Five times Art Ross, six times Hart candidate (one Hart nomination)

- First among active players in Stanley Cup Playoff goals (78), assists (111), points (189), power play goals (24) and game-winning goals (16)

Source: NHL.com's player profile

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Old
03-20-2013, 01:24 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djeez View Post
Okay I'll rephrase it. Jagr is overrated as hell around here.
No, Forsberg is.

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Old
03-20-2013, 01:32 PM
  #39
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I really think without crunching too many numbers, that Hasek is the closest we saw to the big4 over an extended period of time.

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03-20-2013, 01:35 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djeez View Post
Forsberg underrated as hell on here.
Forsberg should absolutely get 0 votes in this poll.

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Old
03-20-2013, 01:52 PM
  #41
Gord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
Two things:

1. If we are only looking at primarily NHL-based European players (which is perfectly fine to do), perhaps the title should reflect that, maybe call the next one "Top NHL European of All Time".

2. Add Borje Salming.
that was my first thought.
this poll is invalid without Borje Salming.

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Old
03-20-2013, 02:02 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gord View Post
that was my first thought.
this poll is invalid without Borje Salming.
The poll is fine without Borje Salming, because voting for him would make little sense at all (as I said, I assumed this was going to be a series of polls; he'd be a player worth considering a few rounds from now).

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Old
03-20-2013, 02:04 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djeez View Post
Okay I'll rephrase it. Jagr is overrated as hell around here.
Not at all, if anything he is underrated.

I think there's a legitimate argument for Jagr being a top 5 forward of all time, 5 scoring titles, finished 2nd twice, has the longevity and talent to be one of the highest all-time scorers despite missing 2 seasons to lockout (1 full season + 2 half seasons) and playing 3 years in the KHL, and he did all of this while playing in a low-scoring era for much of his career. Since 1995-96 Jagr has 3 of the top 5 highest scoring seasons, and 4 of the top 7.

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Old
03-20-2013, 02:13 PM
  #44
TAnnala
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
I really think without crunching too many numbers, that Hasek is the closest we saw to the big4 over an extended period of time.
True, he is the Orr/Lemieux of goalies. Maybe not just as dominant but he is the only goalie to have the same kind of dominance as Lemieux or Orr showed in flashes.

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Old
03-20-2013, 02:21 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J StClair28 View Post
How? He's 8th all time on the scoring list, and if he would have been in the NHL from 2008-11 he could very well be 6 or higher.
I think if he played from 2008-2011 I think he'd easily be as high as 4th.

He's right now 127 points behind Francis so he'd only need to average 43 points a season to eclipse that.

Given that he had 71 in 82 in 07-08 and then 54 in 73 in 11-12 I think 127 over 246 is perfectly reasonable.

Even averaging 55 points a season for the 3 he missed (which is far from over the top) would put him at 1836 meaning 3rd would be in range this season and 2nd would be in range next year if he played.

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Old
03-20-2013, 05:55 PM
  #46
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Hasek, was any goalie ever as good as him in his prime?

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03-20-2013, 05:57 PM
  #47
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Hasek, was any goalie ever as good as him in his prime?
Tim Thomas in the 2011 playoffs.

Brian Elliott.

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Old
03-20-2013, 05:59 PM
  #48
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Hasek/Jagr voted Hasek.

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Old
03-20-2013, 07:54 PM
  #49
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There should only be 3 options. (Although I am buying the "Other - no non-nhlers, not comparable" option, so let's make it 4).

I voted Hasek, but I would not fault anyone for voting Lidström or Jagr.

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Old
03-20-2013, 08:57 PM
  #50
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Younger people will naturally choose the guys who have played most recently, but I picked Kurri.

The guy was a perfect compliment to Gretzky, a true scoring machine.

I could have gone Jagr or Hasek, too, but I went with my personal favorite from the list.

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