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Phoenix LXXIII: "This Space Available"

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Old
03-20-2013, 12:06 PM
  #151
silvercanuck
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Originally Posted by QcBlizzard View Post
Because Glendale surprised everybody and shoveled in another 25M, allowing team to stay in a "better" TV market one more year. Trying to guess.
I don't believe the Coyotes received any subsidy this year because of the lockout. Subsidy or not the NHL is losing money on the Coyotes.

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03-20-2013, 12:09 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
I don't believe the Coyotes received any subsidy this year because of the lockout. Subsidy or not the NHL is losing money on the Coyotes.
Yes but back in may 2012, nobody, well, other then in the league offices maybe, knew we were going into in 48 games season.

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03-20-2013, 12:14 PM
  #153
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by QcBlizzard View Post
Because Glendale surprised everybody and shoveled in another 25M, allowing team to stay in a "better" TV market one more year. Trying to guess.
I think that's a pretty good guess. The NHL is committed to keeping the team in Glendale as long as Glendale is committed to keeping the team. If the city chooses to keep subsidizing the team, then the league has no particular reason to undermine its potential expansion revenue by rushing into a relocation.

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03-20-2013, 12:27 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
i think the "fallacy" is coming from your own words ... "There is nothing holding the NHL to PHX right now. They could pack the team up and move them into the Colisee tomorrow ..."

sounds an awful lot like mid-season to me.

had you intended to say, 'prior to this season beginning' or 'after the 2011-12 season had ended', that would have been different.

oh, and edit to add: who is to say that the team hasn't already been sold? and that relocation plans are already actively underway?
Do we really need to get into semantics and straw-man arguments? I said "March of 2012". How much clearer do I need to be? March of 2012 was before the end of last season. They had the entire summer to move the team. Quebecor very likely announced the arena and NHL upgrades to the Colisee at that time so that they could take the Coyotes for this season.

As far as the league having a secret deal in place with an outside group to move the team that just isnt happening. There are numerous parties known to be discussing the sale of the team with the league and the city of Glendale. If a secret deal were in place the NHL would open itself up to lot of litigation.

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03-20-2013, 12:41 PM
  #155
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Do we really need to get into semantics and straw-man arguments? I said "March of 2012". How much clearer do I need to be? March of 2012 was before the end of last season. They had the entire summer to move the team. Quebecor very likely announced the arena and NHL upgrades to the Colisee at that time so that they could take the Coyotes for this season.
seriously? you clarified it after people reacted.

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03-20-2013, 01:12 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
I'm sure Glendale would be more than pleased to have the Yotes with no egg management fee. Even on a year to year lease. 25 million a year savings much better than the last city council.
Ya absolutely, though reasonably, offer the NHL 5 or 6M a year. We were discussing this ages ago, but really, I have no problem with the league owning this franchise into perpetuity. Could care less quite frankly. Just hire the right people to run it, as they have with Maloney, sub-out the concert & event bookings to people who know what their doing & are aggressive about it. League believes in the market? Fine. Put your money where your mouths at, or is talk just cheap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I think that's a pretty good guess. The NHL is committed to keeping the team in Glendale as long as Glendale is committed to keeping the team. If the city chooses to keep subsidizing the team, then the league has no particular reason to undermine its potential expansion revenue by rushing into a relocation.
There ya go, however, its a matter of degree's & costs isnt it? By any measure, the league & all suitors thus far demanding beyond usury fee's for the pleasure of retaining their team. Blackmail, ransom & extortion is not a business model I'd be contemplating unless my name was Lex Luthor.

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03-20-2013, 02:14 PM
  #157
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Respectfully, debate is good but let's ease up a wee bit on the tone please, guys.

Thanks

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03-20-2013, 02:27 PM
  #158
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In regard to moving the team to QC before this year started, I believe the reason that was not considered is because Jamison was in process of trying to find investors, and he had a lucrative AMF deal from Glendale available at that time. Thus, no motivation for moving right away.

That's the difference right now. Right now, there is nothing forthcoming from Glendale. So, it makes it more attractive to the League to move on a sale for relocation. And, if you want to read the tea leaves, the CC member quoted here recently, saying "It doesn't look good" is a pretty strong indication, right?

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03-20-2013, 02:53 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
Where is this mid-season move fallacy coming from? They announced the new arena in March of 2012. They had the entire summer to work on a deal with a new arena in place. They could easily have moved the team to Quebec for this season and put this issue to bed.
Here's why the team hasn't moved yet:

Summer 2010, CoG pays 25m$ to stay in Glendale.
Summer 2011, CoG pays 25m$ (or 20m$) to stay in Glendale.
Summer 2012, CoG offers 320m$ to GJ.
Summer 2013, ???, who knows...

As long as Glendale is willing to pay the NHL to stay in Glendale, the NHL will stay in Glendale. Put all other logic aside.

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03-20-2013, 03:52 PM
  #160
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There ya go, however, its a matter of degree's & costs isnt it? By any measure, the league & all suitors thus far demanding beyond usury fee's for the pleasure of retaining their team. Blackmail, ransom & extortion is not a business model I'd be contemplating unless my name was Lex Luthor.
At this point, I'm hesitant to even form an opinion based on rational deduction. Next thing you know, a mysterious "L.L." is going to put a bid on the team.

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03-20-2013, 03:53 PM
  #161
Killion
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Originally Posted by GF View Post
As long as Glendale is willing to pay the NHL to stay in Glendale, the NHL will stay in Glendale. Put all other logic aside.
Pretty much. Good policy to follow. Whats curious however is why they havent bothered to withdraw that app $20M still sitting in escrow for the 2011/12 season. The other two interesting developments; what does the COG do with the $17M they'd allocated for the 2012/13 season, the first years payment of what was to be Jamisons 20yr agreement, that money earmarked & available, and finally, what will the RFP's purportedly being crafted by Beacon Sports look like, when in April will they be released, and what is the window for receiving offers thereafter? An awful lot of questions, possible outcomes.

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03-20-2013, 04:09 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
At this point, I'm hesitant to even form an opinion based on rational deduction.
Irrational... like that time I heard the otherworldly & eerie strains of an orchestra from somewhere off in the distance in the middle of the night while tucked into bed at the old Carolina Inn. Couldnt quite make out what was being played, never mind who was doing the playing. Possibly Camille Saint Saens Danse Macabre... then again, I was completely hammered so who knows? Mebbe you could go check-in & check it out for me tarheel? Make sure you get Room 1408.

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03-20-2013, 04:52 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
In regard to moving the team to QC before this year started, I believe the reason that was not considered is because Jamison was in process of trying to find investors, and he had a lucrative AMF deal from Glendale available at that time. Thus, no motivation for moving right away.

That's the difference right now. Right now, there is nothing forthcoming from Glendale. So, it makes it more attractive to the League to move on a sale for relocation. And, if you want to read the tea leaves, the CC member quoted here recently, saying "It doesn't look good" is a pretty strong indication, right?
Agree. Jamison was their last hope. He failed and nobody else had stepped up since then. Time to move on to plan B.

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03-20-2013, 05:37 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
Where is this mid-season move fallacy coming from? They announced the new arena in March of 2012. They had the entire summer to work on a deal with a new arena in place. They could easily have moved the team to Quebec for this season and put this issue to bed.
Because:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
In regard to moving the team to QC before this year started, I believe the reason that was not considered is because Jamison was in process of trying to find investors, and he had a lucrative AMF deal from Glendale available at that time. Thus, no motivation for moving right away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GF View Post
Here's why the team hasn't moved yet:

Summer 2010, CoG pays 25m$ to stay in Glendale.
Summer 2011, CoG pays 25m$ (or 20m$) to stay in Glendale.
Summer 2012, CoG offers 320m$ to GJ.
Summer 2013, ???, who knows...

As long as Glendale is willing to pay the NHL to stay in Glendale, the NHL will stay in Glendale. Put all other logic aside.
silvercanuck, not sure whether you haven't followed the story or you're trying to rewrite it, but it ain't over until it's over. Therefore the Coyotes haven't moved yet.

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03-20-2013, 06:04 PM
  #165
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Irrational... like that time I heard the otherworldly & eerie strains of an orchestra from somewhere off in the distance in the middle of the night while tucked into bed at the old Carolina Inn. Couldnt quite make out what was being played, never mind who was doing the playing. Possibly Camille Saint Saens Danse Macabre... then again, I was completely hammered so who knows? Mebbe you could go check-in & check it out for me tarheel? Make sure you get Room 1408.
I'll try, but I'm more likely to run into the ghost of Andy Griffith

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Old
03-20-2013, 06:31 PM
  #166
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I'll try, but I'm more likely to run into the ghost of Andy Griffith
Don Knotts in tow. The Real Ghost & Mr. Chicken.

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03-20-2013, 07:37 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Material Defender View Post
Agree. Jamison was their last hope. He failed and nobody else had stepped up since then. Time to move on to plan B.
We are way past plan B it more like plan Z or maybe plan R!

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03-20-2013, 07:54 PM
  #168
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We are way past plan B it more like plan Z or maybe plan R!
Plan 9-let's see who gets the reference

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03-20-2013, 08:17 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by GF View Post
Here's why the team hasn't moved yet:

Summer 2010, CoG pays 25m$ to stay in Glendale.
Summer 2011, CoG pays 25m$ (or 20m$) to stay in Glendale.
Summer 2012, CoG offers 320m$ to GJ.
Summer 2013, ???, who knows...

As long as Glendale is willing to pay the NHL to stay in Glendale, the NHL will stay in Glendale. Put all other logic aside.
Also Shovels didn't hit the ground in Quebec until Sept 2012. Would have been embarrassing to move the team to QC in June, then things fall apart and the new arena doesn't get built. Oops!

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03-20-2013, 08:23 PM
  #170
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Also Shovels didn't hit the ground in Quebec until Sept 2012. Would have been embarrassing to move the team to QC in June, then things fall apart and the new arena doesn't get built. Oops!
Plus there was still and appeal process going on during the legal challenges. By the time it was dropped, the AMF for Jamison part 1 was already approved

So QC was not quite ready to land the team last year. Different situation this time around

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03-20-2013, 08:30 PM
  #171
Killion
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
Plan 9-let's see who gets the reference
... ya, you neednt wonder long TL.

Director? Ed Wood Jr.
Producer? Ed Wood Jr.
Screenplay? Ed Wood Jr.

Featuring;

Gary Bettman
Barry Shenkarow
Steven Gluckstern
Richard Burke
Jerry Colangelo
Steve Ellman
Jerry Moyes
Jim Balsillie
Richard Rodier
Redfield T. Baum
Jerry Reinsdorf
John Kaites
Ed "Big Gulp"Beasley
T.J. Hocking & the Hookers
Anthony Le Blankety Blank Blank
Matthew Hulsizer
Elaine Scruggs
Joyce Clarke
Craig Tindall
Horatio Skeete
Greg "Got a Dime?" Jamison
Jerry Weird
Gary Sherwood
Bill Daly
etc
etcet
ecertera

Cameo Appearances from Wayne Gretzky, Senator Johnny "Crash" McCain, Ilya Bryzgalov, Shane Doan....
Voice Overs & Commentary by a Cast of 1000's....

Unspeakable Horrors from Outer Space Paralysing the Living & Resurrecting The Dead


Last edited by Killion: 03-20-2013 at 08:49 PM.
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03-20-2013, 10:06 PM
  #172
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...what does the COG do with the $17M they'd allocated for the 2012/13 season, the first years payment of what was to be Jamisons 20yr agreement, that money earmarked & available...
Maybe spend it on "luxury items", like, you know, not laying off police or not reducing library hours.

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:07 PM
  #173
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Plan 9-let's see who gets the reference
Glen or Glendale?

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03-20-2013, 11:30 PM
  #174
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Plus there was still and appeal process going on during the legal challenges. By the time it was dropped, the AMF for Jamison part 1 was already approved

So QC was not quite ready to land the team last year. Different situation this time around
True. Actually in 2011, initially Quebec was supposed to break ground in Spring 2013, then it changed to Spring 2012 (with rumors that the arena would be finished in September 2014 instead of 2015) then later became Fall 2012 (Completion date expected July 2015). Now the arena broke ground 1 week before last Fall, but in mid 2012 they discovered that the soil at Espace K was contaminated and they had to move to the Hippodrome to avoid exceeding costs. You never know what worse could have happened then, such as environmental studies draggin on, etc.

Thankfully most things went well since then and the thing is starting to get out of the ground (Seattle and Markham better hurry!)

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03-20-2013, 11:41 PM
  #175
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Plan 9-let's see who gets the reference
I made that reference some LXIV threads ago....

It still applies.....

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