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Trade Rumors 2013 Part II

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:07 AM
  #626
damacles1156
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Guys like Scuderi are not easy to replace. The Pens still haven't replaced him...

The Pens have suffered for it too, their defense has been swiss cheese for the last couple of years.

Scuds is a freaking warrior, and savy vet. But like all hockey players, when your role changes, or you add minutes to your load (players struggle).

Scuds will be back to one of the best defenders on the team once the lineup is set and healthy.

He is not even playing that bad, just a tad slow, and getting beat more than normal.

But it's Scuds, when has the guy ever completely fallen off the map?

Never.

Also if he resigns for 3.5m....That will be the cheapest you get a Defender of his experience and caliber.

Regardless of what some people think, guys like Scuds don't grow on tree's.

Everyone keeps talking about how easy (defensive defenders are to replace).

Well how well is that working out for the Kings this year ?


Last edited by damacles1156: 03-20-2013 at 11:15 AM.
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Old
03-20-2013, 11:20 AM
  #627
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Komisarek on waivers per TSN

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03-20-2013, 11:26 AM
  #628
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Oh, and Lieweke to the Leafs (E4)

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:46 AM
  #629
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Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
Komisarek on waivers per TSN
Yeah, crazy. Glad the guy gets to play now, at least. He had a rough few years.

I posted this in that thread:

<<If it weren't for another year at that salary, (i know i'm gonna get blasted for this, ha) I could see the Kings taking a flyer on him as a stand-in target dummy for Greene.>>

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:47 AM
  #630
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Guys like Scuderi are not easy to replace. The Pens still haven't replaced him...

The Pens have suffered for it too, their defense has been swiss cheese for the last couple of years.

Scuds is a freaking warrior, and savy vet. But like all hockey players, when your role changes, or you add minutes to your load (players struggle).

Scuds will be back to one of the best defenders on the team once the lineup is set and healthy.

He is not even playing that bad, just a tad slow, and getting beat more than normal.

But it's Scuds, when has the guy ever completely fallen off the map?

Never.

Also if he resigns for 3.5m....That will be the cheapest you get a Defender of his experience and caliber.

Regardless of what some people think, guys like Scuds don't grow on tree's.

Everyone keeps talking about how easy (defensive defenders are to replace).

Well how well is that working out for the Kings this year ?

You sir are one of the very FEW Kings fan that I know which shares the same view point as me.

It bothers me when people are bagging on Scuds. I don't even think he's playing bad at all this season.

People think hockey is all about scoring. It is probably one of the most well balanced sports out there that requires a little of everything from every position.

People think it's easy to replace people like Scuds, well you are COMPLETELY WRONG. Don't be silly.


Last edited by DaAnimal: 03-20-2013 at 11:54 AM.
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03-20-2013, 11:52 AM
  #631
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Originally Posted by DaAnimal View Post
You sir are one of the very FEW Kings fan that I know which shares the same view point as me.

It bothers me when people are bagging on Scuds. I don't even think he's playing bad at all this season.

People think hockey is all about scoring. It is probably one of the most well balanced sports out there that requires a little of everything from every position.
If Scuds wants to come back and wants reasonable term and money, no Kings fan should be against it.

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:59 AM
  #632
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It depends on who is available and what the cost is. It doesn't make any sense to overpay if it leaves us in a slightly better position (Leopold for example) for the playoffs but weaker overall. If we don't get MG or WM back for the playoffs then we might have to rely on our kids plus DavisD more than we want to but I would rather do that then move a key young player for a slightly better rental.

I know that isn't what you are advocating at all, just pointing out that the only way I would make a move would be for a player who could either replace WM for next season as well as whatever we get out of them this year (if WM ends up falling off again) or if for a rental at a very cheap price.

Say if Leopold could be had for a player who is redundant for us (Richardson and a 7th) at a very low offer then I could see it. If not we might have to run what we brung to ovoid losing a big part of our future.

We have too many D as it sits and when MG/WM do come back something will have to give but that can wait.
A rental at a cheap price (preferably one on an expiring contract) is exactly what I was advocating. Somebody that has played some games so that they're not a fresh faced rookie, but is someone that wouldn't necessarily make you think twice if you scratched them as a 7th or 8th defenseman.

Right now the team has Martinez, Ellerby, and Drewiske playing musical chairs with the 5th and 6th pairings on defense with nobody out of that group really securing an everyday spot in the lineup with distinguished play. Because of a combination of injuries and inconsistencies they're all rather interchangeable at this point, which I don't bring up as a negative point.

As depth players there's not much variance in level of play among the three so whether one is inserted over the other doesn't noticeably impact the on-ice product. I'm sure you can agree that there are some depth players out there where it's obvious that they're a step behind the action and are a clear downgrade from the guy they are replacing and that's not the case here with those three.

Looking at experience you've got the following:

Martinez = 161 NHL games
Ellerby = 146 NHL games
Drewiske = 126 NHL games

Some players I did a quick look up on would be guys like this:

Kurtis Foster - 398 NHL games, age 31, $950,000 this season, UFA at end of season
Derek Meech - 136 NHL games, age 28, $700,000 this season, UFA at end of season
Chris Butler - 254 NHL games, age 26, $1,250,000 this season, RFA at end of season

None of them are world beaters, but they all have some game experience under their belts and shouldn't cost a boat load in terms of resources to acquire. They're all signed until the end of the season and the team can cut them loose after the playoffs if they so desire since they're intended to be a temporary insurance policy for the stretch run.

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03-20-2013, 12:22 PM
  #633
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Guys like Scuderi are not easy to replace. The Pens still haven't replaced him...

The Pens have suffered for it too, their defense has been swiss cheese for the last couple of years.

Scuds is a freaking warrior, and savy vet. But like all hockey players, when your role changes, or you add minutes to your load (players struggle).

Scuds will be back to one of the best defenders on the team once the lineup is set and healthy.

He is not even playing that bad, just a tad slow, and getting beat more than normal.

But it's Scuds, when has the guy ever completely fallen off the map?

Never.

Also if he resigns for 3.5m....That will be the cheapest you get a Defender of his experience and caliber.

Regardless of what some people think, guys like Scuds don't grow on tree's.

Everyone keeps talking about how easy (defensive defenders are to replace).

Well how well is that working out for the Kings this year ?
The Kings are currently 8th in the league with 2.48 goals allowed per game. I'd say it's worked out pretty well.

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Old
03-20-2013, 12:33 PM
  #634
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Yeah, crazy. Glad the guy gets to play now, at least. He had a rough few years.

I posted this in that thread:

<<If it weren't for another year at that salary, (i know i'm gonna get blasted for this, ha) I could see the Kings taking a flyer on him as a stand-in target dummy for Greene.>>
I agree with this. I know we could buy him out, but I don't think the Kings brass would be keen on that.

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Old
03-20-2013, 12:38 PM
  #635
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Originally Posted by Primakov! View Post
Some players I did a quick look up on would be guys like this:

Kurtis Foster - 398 NHL games, age 31, $950,000 this season, UFA at end of season
Derek Meech - 136 NHL games, age 28, $700,000 this season, UFA at end of season
Chris Butler - 254 NHL games, age 26, $1,250,000 this season, RFA at end of season

None of them are world beaters, but they all have some game experience under their belts and shouldn't cost a boat load in terms of resources to acquire. They're all signed until the end of the season and the team can cut them loose after the playoffs if they so desire since they're intended to be a temporary insurance policy for the stretch run.
They're all terrible options and no better than what the Kings currently have. They're depth defensemen who serve no purpose in being regularly in a lineup. Adding any of the aforementioned would be a move just for the sake of adding a healthy body, which the Kings don't need to make right now. Pass.

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Old
03-20-2013, 12:43 PM
  #636
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Quote:
Some players I did a quick look up on would be guys like this:

Kurtis Foster - 398 NHL games, age 31, $950,000 this season, UFA at end of season
Derek Meech - 136 NHL games, age 28, $700,000 this season, UFA at end of season
Chris Butler - 254 NHL games, age 26, $1,250,000 this season, RFA at end of season
Kings are not that desperate. As a FLyers fan , having suffered thru every one of Foster's games, he's flat out terrible. The only thing he's been useful for is finding new and creative ways to use my favorite curse word. Avoid him at any cost.

DL knows the Kings needs a vet D man for the playoff run and he'll get one, a good one, one that can be counted on and with some talent.
You add Greene in there and the Kings are good.

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Old
03-20-2013, 12:44 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
They're all terrible options and no better than what the Kings currently have. They're depth defensemen who serve no purpose in being regularly in a lineup. Adding any of the aforementioned would be a move just for the sake of adding a healthy body, which the Kings don't need to make right now. Pass.
Totally agree. I'd rather keep Drewiske than trade for any of those losers.

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Old
03-20-2013, 01:01 PM
  #638
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Unless two of Mitchell, Scuderi and Drewiske return next year, we'll be looking at adding a depth option anyways (or using one of the current guys we have as a depth options (Ellerby or maybe Campbell/Bodnarchuk).

Assuming no Mitchell, Scuderi and Drewiske next year, our D is this:

Doughty-Martinez
Voynov-Greene
Ellerby-Muzzin

Odds are DL will add at least some depth D-man, unless Mitchell is returning or Scuderi resigns. I think Drewiske will test free agency.

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03-20-2013, 01:04 PM
  #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
They're all terrible options and no better than what the Kings currently have. They're depth defensemen who serve no purpose in being regularly in a lineup. Adding any of the aforementioned would be a move just for the sake of adding a healthy body, which the Kings don't need to make right now. Pass.
Those players being depth caliber defenseman is exactly the point, and at no point did I ever say they'd be regulars in the lineup. The move isn't for the situation at hand now, but for the stretch run when you can't make any more transactions past the trade deadline.

If you don't agree that's fine, but the point I was trying to make was that if an injury hits and there's no Mitchell or Greene available then you'd be turning to youngsters like Andrew Campbell or one of the other Manchester players during the playoffs.

Ideally you'd want someone with *some* NHL experience to be able to turn to in an emergency situation rather than throwing a rookie out there who may or may not be ready. My concern was that you could potentially be throwing a prospect out there to get exposed and burned, which is unfair, or be putting them in for so few minutes that it throws off the other pairings as the coaches skip around him and make mish-mash pairings on the fly.

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03-20-2013, 01:58 PM
  #640
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The mid-80's Oilers couldn't win 9 out of 10. I don't think any team in history has won 9 out of 10.
Do you not understand exaggeration?

A few days ago you were harping on my comment that the Kings would be in last place without Bernier.

Sometimes people say stuff to get their point across. You don't need to correct them on that.

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03-20-2013, 02:01 PM
  #641
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Guys like Scuderi are not easy to replace. The Pens still haven't replaced him...

The Pens have suffered for it too, their defense has been swiss cheese for the last couple of years.

Scuds is a freaking warrior, and savy vet. But like all hockey players, when your role changes, or you add minutes to your load (players struggle).

Scuds will be back to one of the best defenders on the team once the lineup is set and healthy.

He is not even playing that bad, just a tad slow, and getting beat more than normal.

But it's Scuds, when has the guy ever completely fallen off the map?

Never.

Also if he resigns for 3.5m....That will be the cheapest you get a Defender of his experience and caliber.

Regardless of what some people think, guys like Scuds don't grow on tree's.

Everyone keeps talking about how easy (defensive defenders are to replace).

Well how well is that working out for the Kings this year ?
Some defensemen are only know as "defensive defensemen" because they have no offensive game. It doesn't always mean they excel at the defensive part of the game.

IMHO, part of being a defensive defenseman includes being able to clear people out of the crease and having some element of a physical game. Scuderi doesn't have that.

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Old
03-20-2013, 02:03 PM
  #642
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Originally Posted by Primakov! View Post
A rental at a cheap price (preferably one on an expiring contract) is exactly what I was advocating. Somebody that has played some games so that they're not a fresh faced rookie, but is someone that wouldn't necessarily make you think twice if you scratched them as a 7th or 8th defenseman.

Right now the team has Martinez, Ellerby, and Drewiske playing musical chairs with the 5th and 6th pairings on defense with nobody out of that group really securing an everyday spot in the lineup with distinguished play. Because of a combination of injuries and inconsistencies they're all rather interchangeable at this point, which I don't bring up as a negative point.

As depth players there's not much variance in level of play among the three so whether one is inserted over the other doesn't noticeably impact the on-ice product. I'm sure you can agree that there are some depth players out there where it's obvious that they're a step behind the action and are a clear downgrade from the guy they are replacing and that's not the case here with those three.

Looking at experience you've got the following:

Martinez = 161 NHL games
Ellerby = 146 NHL games
Drewiske = 126 NHL games

Some players I did a quick look up on would be guys like this:

Kurtis Foster - 398 NHL games, age 31, $950,000 this season, UFA at end of season
Derek Meech - 136 NHL games, age 28, $700,000 this season, UFA at end of season
Chris Butler - 254 NHL games, age 26, $1,250,000 this season, RFA at end of season

None of them are world beaters, but they all have some game experience under their belts and shouldn't cost a boat load in terms of resources to acquire. They're all signed until the end of the season and the team can cut them loose after the playoffs if they so desire since they're intended to be a temporary insurance policy for the stretch run.
I see where you are coming from but disagree entirely with adding Martinez in with those D who have yet to establish themselves with distinguished play. A Mart is dead solid and while it took him a couple of games to get things back in shape after his injury (surprising that it only took a couple of games really) he is back on track and again playing like he could be a second pairing D man at times.

IF we don't get Greener or WM back this season or if one of them go down then I have to believe that we are sort of stuck with what we have. Adding another player to the mix would mean that we would have to do something with at least one of our players.

Doughty
Martinez
Scuderi
Muzzin
Ellerby
Voynov
Drewiskie
Greene
(WM if he makes it back)
Additional player.

The only real way to add a D man at this point is to move one of our current D.

We sit at 9 D right now when healthy. We could waive DavisD (though I don't think DL would do that) but then none of the players you listed as an example are really an upgrade over him. We have to carry Ellerby (he can't be sent down) and while Muzzin can be sent down I think he has established himself (so do you) as a keeper so I wouldn't do that to make room for another D either.

WM is either on his way back to us and will be here soon or is out possibly forever. I believe that he will be here before the end of the season but if he isn't that will still leave us with 8 D when Greene comes back. Either way we are carrying his contract so that is something to consider as well.

I wonder what we are going to do when Greene comes back as things sit today. I wouldn't deal any of our current D for a low grade rental nor would I risk losing DavisD to waivers for one.

The only thing I could see us doing would be to move one of the young D currently on our roster for an established SAH gritty Vet that we planned to keep long term. The only way I could see DL doing that is if he believed (or knew) that WM wasn't coming back.

I agree that it would be idillic for us to be able to have another more established D to rely on but in this case it comes down to what it would cost us to do so and I don't think that making a move for a low end rental would be worth the price all things considered.

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03-20-2013, 02:18 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post

I wonder what we are going to do when Greene comes back as things sit today. I wouldn't deal any of our current D for a low grade rental nor would I risk losing DavisD to waivers for one.

After the trade deadline, will the rosters expand for the playoffs? I'm not familiar with the new CBA.

If so, I would not put it past DL to try to convince both Greene and Mitchell that neither of them will be healthy again until after the deadline has passed, if you know what I mean.

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03-20-2013, 02:51 PM
  #644
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I see where you are coming from but disagree entirely with adding Martinez in with those D who have yet to establish themselves with distinguished play. A Mart is dead solid and while it took him a couple of games to get things back in shape after his injury (surprising that it only took a couple of games really) he is back on track and again playing like he could be a second pairing D man at times.
No, you misread me there. My intention was never to say that Martinez is an unestablished player because he clearly did that with his past performance in the regular season and subsequent Cup Run. However, I do mean it when I say that he is a bit off from last year's form to the point where he's been rather unremarkable -- probably due to injury, as I alluded to.

Right now you'd be hard pressed to differentiate whether it's Ellerby, Drewiske, or Martinez out on the ice. Whereas last year he made plays routinely -- closing the gap on attacking forwards by aggressively stepping up at the blueline and getting power play time on the second unit -- that made him more of a standout.

It's not a knock against him, but it's an observation that he doesn't seem to be fully back to what he's capable of because when you compare what he did to what he's doing right now there's a difference. Whether it's easing back from injury, not having Greene, or whatever the case may be he's playing down to the level of Ellerby and Drewiske.

I don't think that's an unfair assessment, but your opinion may differ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
IF we don't get Greener or WM back this season or if one of them go down then I have to believe that we are sort of stuck with what we have. Adding another player to the mix would mean that we would have to do something with at least one of our players.

Doughty
Martinez
Scuderi
Muzzin
Ellerby
Voynov
Drewiskie
Greene
(WM if he makes it back)
Additional player.

The only real way to add a D man at this point is to move one of our current D.

We sit at 9 D right now when healthy. We could waive DavisD (though I don't think DL would do that) but then none of the players you listed as an example are really an upgrade over him. We have to carry Ellerby (he can't be sent down) and while Muzzin can be sent down I think he has established himself (so do you) as a keeper so I wouldn't do that to make room for another D either.

WM is either on his way back to us and will be here soon or is out possibly forever. I believe that he will be here before the end of the season but if he isn't that will still leave us with 8 D when Greene comes back. Either way we are carrying his contract so that is something to consider as well.

I wonder what we are going to do when Greene comes back as things sit today. I wouldn't deal any of our current D for a low grade rental nor would I risk losing DavisD to waivers for one.

The only thing I could see us doing would be to move one of the young D currently on our roster for an established SAH gritty Vet that we planned to keep long term. The only way I could see DL doing that is if he believed (or knew) that WM wasn't coming back.

I agree that it would be idillic for us to be able to have another more established D to rely on but in this case it comes down to what it would cost us to do so and I don't think that making a move for a low end rental would be worth the price all things considered.
If Mitchell or Greene comes back then yeah, it's a moot point and an unnecessary move as you pointed out, which I don't disagree with.

I wouldn't feel so bothered by the situation if there wasn't so much ambiguity going on in regards to their injury status and how it's being talked about from the General Manager down to the Head Coach in such a weirdly vague manner as they've been doing.

And while I appreciate that you hear through your resources that Mitchell might be coming back soon it's not set in stone and I subscribe to not counting my chickens until they're hatched and preparing for the worst case scenario in all instances.

I was just trying to be pragmatic when looking at the situation and considering what the team could/might/should do if we're operating with the assumption that the pair will be out for the entire year and not coming back.

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03-20-2013, 03:04 PM
  #645
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For what it's worth...

Quote:
Dennis Bernstein ‏@DennisTFP:

@BroadstreetWest simply put, Kings short proven scorer on Top 6. Like what I see in Toffoli but big ask for a kid with 3 NHL games on resume

@RealistSpeaking haven't heard names but NYR scouts all over LA these days, no secret Gaborik in play. Justin Williams 3.65M cap hit no NMC

@TVMoody @Sben88 have to think Bernier in Iginla deal. Could be multiple players from both sides. Hearing Sutter pushing hard, believe it.

@Sben88 my guess is that Sutter is pushing Deano hard for Jarome Iginla.

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03-20-2013, 03:05 PM
  #646
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Trading J-Dub for anything other than a signed Vanek type would be stupid. The guy does so much heavy lifting for Brown and Kopitar it's unreal.

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03-20-2013, 03:19 PM
  #647
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Do you not understand exaggeration?

A few days ago you were harping on my comment that the Kings would be in last place without Bernier.

Sometimes people say stuff to get their point across. You don't need to correct them on that.
But you need to correct me, right?

There's a difference between exaggeration and just dumbass comments. Saying we'd be deadlast without Bernier is a shining example.

And if people are exaggerating, what's wrong with tossing in a smiley? It's not like there's a shortage of them.

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03-20-2013, 03:19 PM
  #648
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Originally Posted by Primakov! View Post
No, you misread me there. My intention was never to say that Martinez is an unestablished player because he clearly did that with his past performance in the regular season and subsequent Cup Run. However, I do mean it when I say that he is a bit off from last year's form to the point where he's been rather unremarkable -- probably due to injury, as I alluded to.

Right now you'd be hard pressed to differentiate whether it's Ellerby, Drewiske, or Martinez out on the ice. Whereas last year he made plays routinely -- closing the gap on attacking forwards by aggressively stepping up at the blueline and getting power play time on the second unit -- that made him more of a standout.

It's not a knock against him, but it's an observation that he doesn't seem to be fully back to what he's capable of because when you compare what he did to what he's doing right now there's a difference. Whether it's easing back from injury, not having Greene, or whatever the case may be he's playing down to the level of Ellerby and Drewiske.

I don't think that's an unfair assessment, but your opinion may differ.

If Mitchell or Greene comes back then yeah, it's a moot point and an unnecessary move as you pointed out, which I don't disagree with.

I wouldn't feel so bothered by the situation if there wasn't so much ambiguity going on in regards to their injury status and how it's being talked about from the General Manager down to the Head Coach in such a weirdly vague manner as they've been doing.

And while I appreciate that you hear through your resources that Mitchell might be coming back soon it's not set in stone and I subscribe to not counting my chickens until they're hatched and preparing for the worst case scenario in all instances.

I was just trying to be pragmatic when looking at the situation and considering what the team could/might/should do if we're operating with the assumption that the pair will be out for the entire year and not coming back.

I think we can both agree that A Mart has had his ups and downs this season somewhat and I would contend that they are due to injury and more so to the absence of WM and MG. That said I don't see how adding another lesser D would help the situation. I do think that when Greene comes back that it will give us a solid partner and help to shore things up a bit.

Having Doughty Muzzin Scuderi Voynov Ellerby Martinez and Greene gives us 7 solid NHL caliber guys right there and that should be enough. I would believe that Ellerby would be our 7 spot and that he might thrive under those circumstances though his game has come a very long way since we picked him up.

I want to be clear on something though, in regards to WM he is the person saying that he keeps making minor steps forward but I don't think anyone knows for certain what is going to happen. That doesn't mean he will make it back though. I remain cautiously optimistic but not convinced either.

Greene is doing really well and should be back within the next two weeks is what I hear. I would allow for a set back along the way so maybe 3weeks on the outside but back before the playoffs.

As we sit today we have 8d (without WM) once Greene gets back. In order to add anyone we have to either waive DavisD or deal one of our other D. I can't see us doing that for a rental so it would have to be for a WM replacement type who we expect to join us for a longer period of time.

If we were to do that then once Greene comes back we would have to put Ellerby and one other player on to our 8 spot riding the pressbox. If it is the guy we were to have just picked up then why bother doing so is my point. If it were to sit Muzzin then unless we picked up an established solid vet who can provide everything that Muzz does and more why bother?

That is all that I am saying really. Due to our current D I can't see us picking someone else up unless they are A, a Vet who can provide everything that Muzzin currently does and more as Muzz would likely be relegated to the bench along with Ellerby once Greene comes back B, we waive DavisD and or C, we trade one of our current D to get an upgrade as part of a bigger deal which I see as unlikely.

Assuming we were to add another more established D then how/who would you arrange our D assuming that Greene as has been reported is coming back in the near future?

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03-20-2013, 03:21 PM
  #649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reclamation Project View Post
For what it's worth...
I just don't get the Gaborik talk, other than reporters referencing the fact that DL tried to sign him several years ago, and thus he must still be interested.

Unless we are dumping some serious salary, I don't see how Gaborik fits in cap wise next season.

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Old
03-20-2013, 03:27 PM
  #650
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Two things:

1) Please no Gaborik. His cap hit is too high and there is no way I would be willing to send Williams (let alone Williams +) for him

2) Can we please not trade Bernier to a team that is going to be in our division next year?

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