HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

Toughness on the Maple Leafs

View Poll Results: Do we need all our fighters? Who should stay?
Keep Orr, Sit McLaren 9 10.11%
Keep McLaren, Sit Orr 24 26.97%
Sit both, they're not skilled enough 6 6.74%
Keep both, they're intimidating other teams 50 56.18%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-19-2013, 11:46 AM
  #26
darrylsittler27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,893
vCash: 500
Right now we dont have the upgrades.

Fraser is a lock,if you say he is useless it because you hate toughness,he is plus 16.We can easily carry Mclaren as we have nobody better just waiting in the wings.Orr plays very little minutes and is hardly the reason we are losing now.Replace Orr with whom ? Ashton? To play 5 minutes a game?

darrylsittler27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 11:49 AM
  #27
Ricky Bobby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,028
vCash: 500
I think we're already plenty tough enough as far as throwing first.

Where we still lack toughness though is with forwards not being able to grind teams down by playing along the goal and in their corners by cycling.

We have improved in this category but I expect CMac to be replaced by next season with a forward who plays more of a grind it out type game.

I also expect Grabo to not live out his contract as he plays best in a transition style game but we've got 4 other better options that play best in that type of game with JVR, Lupul, Kessel and Kadri.

After getting a center upgrade on Bozak before next season I expect Nonis to target the following players: Clowe and Horton and if they want to much then he does a short-term deal with Higgins or Morrow.

Ricky Bobby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 11:49 AM
  #28
hockeyfanz
Registered User
 
hockeyfanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Exactly. Vancouver tried to change their identity after they lost to the Bruins and it hasn't served them well.

Trading Hodgson for Kassian was just one of the many mistakes the Canucks have made after they lost in the SCF.

We aren't getting tough because the Bruins are tough..that's just the way Nonis and especially Carlyle like to play.
YEah but playing tough and rolling out the goonshow for 4 minutes and 7 shifts a night are two different things. The Bruins are tough with players who can play. No sideshows that Julien rolls out for a couple of shifts per night. Thats where the Burke/Nonis/Carlyle tough blueprint fails miserably. Running out to get guys like Kessel, Bozak, Lupul, Grabovksi, MacA, etc...is not the formula for team toughness. Nothing against those guys but none of them are tough. Not one. JVR is not tough but it doesn't seem like he is easily intimidated...same with Kadri. Thats all you need. Guys who won't run scared. Guys who crash the net and bang in the corners. Guys willing to battle for loose pucks and stand in front of the goalie. Thats the toughness required to win in the NHL. There are no prizes for most fights won. Not unless that prize comes in the form of a high draft pick..We can only hope.

hockeyfanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 12:00 PM
  #29
Terrence
Registered Slacker
 
Terrence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,980
vCash: 500
Where is the "Don't play them with Grabovski" option?

__________________
Terrence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 02:21 PM
  #30
Russell Oliver
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 5,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrence View Post
Where is the "Don't play them with Grabovski" option?
The trouble with the Leafs they don't have any toughness that can play at the NHL level, it's been that way for over seven years, thus when the going gets tough the Leafs holler no-mas no-mass.

Russell Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 02:27 PM
  #31
SuperJayMann
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 583
vCash: 500
We need to keep both of these guys in the line-up until we have a couple players with skill that can also throw punches.

SuperJayMann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 03:46 PM
  #32
JimLaheyprobert
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 333
vCash: 500
lol as for the fans who constantly say we dont need these guys, i laugh at you, and im sure every player in the leafs locker room whos last name is not orr and mclaren will laugh at you because those guys know if orr and mclaren go, then they will have to start fighting their own battles and have to worry about guys constantly running them. Look at all the other teams in the east, they all have those guys, and if you havnt noticed ottawa just traded for matt kassian. These guys are still valuable, so seriously stop crying about these guys, if you dont like it watch soccer or the khl.

JimLaheyprobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 05:26 PM
  #33
slozo
Registered User
 
slozo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: north of Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimLaheyprobert View Post
lol as for the fans who constantly say we dont need these guys, i laugh at you, and im sure every player in the leafs locker room whos last name is not orr and mclaren will laugh at you because those guys know if orr and mclaren go, then they will have to start fighting their own battles and have to worry about guys constantly running them. Look at all the other teams in the east, they all have those guys, and if you havnt noticed ottawa just traded for matt kassian. These guys are still valuable, so seriously stop crying about these guys, if you dont like it watch soccer or the khl.
I see.

Please tell me all about the tough guys on Montreal then.
If you hadn't noticed, Ottawa got their incredibly fantastic and unexpected record so far without this Matt Kassian kid.

slozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 05:36 PM
  #34
cynicism
Registered User
 
cynicism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,458
vCash: 500
I'm sure Stamkos is quivering in his skates at the thought of Fraser McLaren and his 4 minutes of ice time.

Fighting is a minor part of toughness. Toughness is blocking shots, taking a hit, making hits, sticking your system, giving 100% every shift, making the other team work for every inch of ice. Despite all the PIMs, the Leafs aren't doing so well.

cynicism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 05:43 PM
  #35
Duffman955
Registered User
 
Duffman955's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,093
vCash: 500
Carlyle won the cup in Anaheim, while running like 3-4 enforcers. I trust he knows how to use these guys.

Duffman955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 05:44 PM
  #36
Duffman955
Registered User
 
Duffman955's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,093
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slozo View Post
I see.

Please tell me all about the tough guys on Montreal then.
If you hadn't noticed, Ottawa got their incredibly fantastic and unexpected record so far without this Matt Kassian kid.

Why do you think he was brought in?

Duffman955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 12:40 PM
  #37
slozo
Registered User
 
slozo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: north of Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
Why do you think he was brought in?
You tell me, chuckles.

He was brought in because . . . they went through their entire farm team so far to make a full line-up and figured he might be able to skate at an NHL level?

Or maybe, because they think Kassian will bring Ottawa to the next level (which must be close to something like division leader)?

You forgot to mention all those Montreal tough guys, btw!

slozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 12:44 PM
  #38
Russell Oliver
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 5,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
Carlyle won the cup in Anaheim, while running like 3-4 enforcers. I trust he knows how to use these guys.
Two of his enforcers were Getzlaff and Perry.

Russell Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 12:50 PM
  #39
Russell Oliver
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 5,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slozo View Post
You tell me, chuckles.

He was brought in because . . . they went through their entire farm team so far to make a full line-up and figured he might be able to skate at an NHL level?

Or maybe, because they think Kassian will bring Ottawa to the next level (which must be close to something like division leader)?

You forgot to mention all those Montreal tough guys, btw!
Both Montreal and Ottawa have character, after being mugged by the Leaf enforcers they came back and beat them with skill and intellegence.

Russell Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 01:03 PM
  #40
Al14
Registered User
 
Al14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ottawa (Sens suck)
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,985
vCash: 500
McLaren can use his fists and can play a little bit of hockey. Orr is all fists and very little hockey.

Al14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 01:36 PM
  #41
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 30,465
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
Carlyle won the cup in Anaheim, while running like 3-4 enforcers. I trust he knows how to use these guys.
He also had three future Hall of Famers in Niedermayer, Pronger and Selanne to balance them out. And Perry and Getzlaf.

Stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 02:39 PM
  #42
Tak7
Registered User
 
Tak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GTA or the UK
Posts: 6,375
vCash: 500
I'm not convinced that when teams look at the Leafs and glance beyond Orr and McLaren, that they necessarily see a "tough" Toronto team or a team that is any more or less tough than they were in previous years.

However, I do think that the team themselves feel that they are now a bigger, tougher team to play against, and sometimes that confidence can do wonders to the guys in the room.
All of a sudden you see some guys playing like they are a few inches taller, a little bit bigger and stronger, etc. Now you have guys who don't normally throw their weight around, not afraid to do it. You have guys playing a bit more fearless, when it comes to pushing other players around, or blocking shots. They now feel a little more insulated, and when you have a coach that constantly hammers home the point of "we won't be bullied", then I think it does something for the team's confidence and their own self-perceived sense of toughness.


Last edited by Tak7: 03-20-2013 at 03:01 PM.
Tak7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 02:41 PM
  #43
Tak7
Registered User
 
Tak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GTA or the UK
Posts: 6,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
He also had three future Hall of Famers in Niedermayer, Pronger and Selanne to balance them out. And Perry and Getzlaf.
He had toughness in Anaheim, and made it work largely because he had skill.

He has toughness in Toronto, and is trying to make it work - is the problem then not necessarily that the McLaren's and Orrs are taking up the roster spots, but because we don't have that level of skill?

I find it weird that people dump on Orr/McLaren after Leaf losses - the 2 are consistently doing what's asked of them; fight, play physical, get the puck in deep, forecheck, play physical and fight some more. They are doing exactly what they are in the lineup to do. Much like the enforcers that Randy had in Anaheim.

The issues lie with the rest of the roster, not with the Toronto Blue Bombers.


Last edited by Tak7: 03-20-2013 at 02:48 PM.
Tak7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 02:59 PM
  #44
JimLaheyprobert
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 333
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slozo View Post
I see.

Please tell me all about the tough guys on Montreal then.
If you hadn't noticed, Ottawa got their incredibly fantastic and unexpected record so far without this Matt Kassian kid.
Well they went out and got brandon prust, and travis moen, they got ryan white. Not heavyweights but all guys who are willing to fight. Now im sure your going to respond and say oh well those guys can play the game, orr and mclaren cant, and your right those guys can play and contribute, but finding those guys are extremely hard. Its not every day guys that can contribute and also fight come around so when you got one you keep him. But if you dont have those type of guys in the eastern conference then you better have a heavyweight so those guys don't take cheap shots at your stars, (like the night prust went after Grabo, then orr and mclaren took over and let everyone on mtl know, if you mess with our stars be redy to fight us). I bet MTL really wanted a heavyweight that night. As for kassian, he had a goal the other night, but ottawa realized they needed a heavyweight so when they play toronto and boston they need a bit more beef so that neil and zack smith dont have to answer to orr and mclaren every time they play.

JimLaheyprobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 03:32 PM
  #45
Duffman955
Registered User
 
Duffman955's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,093
vCash: 500
The 4th line plays 5-8 mins a night. I doubt any player can make a bigger impact than Orr/Mclaren in those 5 mins.

They do what is asked. Prevents guys from taking runs at our team. Hard on forecheck and intimidates teams.

Duffman955 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 03:36 PM
  #46
black charger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,821
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
He had toughness in Anaheim, and made it work largely because he had skill.

He has toughness in Toronto, and is trying to make it work - is the problem then not necessarily that the McLaren's and Orrs are taking up the roster spots, but because we don't have that level of skill?

I find it weird that people dump on Orr/McLaren after Leaf losses - the 2 are consistently doing what's asked of them; fight, play physical, get the puck in deep, forecheck, play physical and fight some more. They are doing exactly what they are in the lineup to do. Much like the enforcers that Randy had in Anaheim.

The issues lie with the rest of the roster, not with the Toronto Blue Bombers.
To top t off,Orr and McLaren are both plus players.

black charger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 05:34 PM
  #47
cynicism
Registered User
 
cynicism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,458
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
Carlyle won the cup in Anaheim, while running like 3-4 enforcers. I trust he knows how to use these guys.
So guys like Pronger, Neidermayer, Perry, Getzlaf, Selanne, McDonald, Beauchemin, Phalsson, Marchand, Moen, Giguere were just passengers then?

cynicism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 05:38 PM
  #48
iPunch
Registered Leafs Fan
 
iPunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,236
vCash: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicism View Post
So guys like Pronger, Neidermayer, Perry, Getzlaf, Selanne, McDonald, Beauchemin, Phalsson, Marchand, Moen, Giguere were just passengers then?
Think the idea is that there isn't any passengers on a Cup winning team...

iPunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 05:40 PM
  #49
hockeyfanz
Registered User
 
hockeyfanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicism View Post
So guys like Pronger, Neidermayer, Perry, Getzlaf, Selanne, McDonald, Beauchemin, Phalsson, Marchand, Moen, Giguere were just passengers then?
yup anaheim clearly won because of Brad May and George Parros.

hockeyfanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:00 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.