HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Countdown is on: 3 days till Jays Home Opener!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-20-2013, 01:30 PM
  #151
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,250
vCash: 500
ESPN's doing a ranking of the top 500 players in baseball (consider that there are usually about 750ish players in the league at any given time, excluding guys on the DL.

Obviously not going to list everything, but I will highlight the Blue Jays as their names pop up.

Today was players 500 through 401, with 2 Jays sightings.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/90...13-nos-401-500

463) Steve Delabar (not ranked last year)
445) Rajai Davis (up from 466th last year)

There are also some ex-Jays on the list:

495) Travis Snider (down from 475)
486) John Buck (down from 315)
485) Henderson Alvarez (down from 481)
483) Jason Frasor (unranked last year)
479) Frankie Franks (down from 266)
455) Jon Rauch (down from 389)
413) Marc Rzepczynski (down from 404)
402) Travis d'Arnaud (unranked last year)

__________________

"Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent."

Sorry, I am not taking signature requests at this time.
The Nemesis is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 01:32 PM
  #152
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,250
vCash: 500
Also wanted to post this:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...stealing-bases

Jonah Keri sits down with Coco Crisp to discuss the art of base stealing.

It's a really interesting read. Crisp gives a ton of insight.

The Nemesis is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 01:32 PM
  #153
theaub
Lets go Hawks!
 
theaub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Markham, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,591
vCash: 995
Only like 22 more years for Rajai to make it to the top

theaub is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 01:45 PM
  #154
FreeBird
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 5,737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
that's just classic and classy man! kudos to him, really like that guy.
Gary Thorne did the games when espn did hockey, he does the championship games of the ncaa final four Hockey. He's from Maine.

FreeBird is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 03:56 PM
  #155
Felstead
Boss Status
 
Felstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBird View Post
Gary Thorne did the games when espn did hockey, he does the championship games of the ncaa final four Hockey. He's from Maine.
He also is the voice of the vast majority of NHL video games

Just remembered instead of calling Matt Stajan, Stajan. He calls him Stay-Han hahah

Felstead is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 04:44 PM
  #156
jcollins
BJ Elitist/Hipster
 
jcollins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,494
vCash: 500
Jeffress got the start today in what I think was a bit of an audition and he got shelled. 3 ER in 2IP (he was scheduled to go 3). 4 H, 2BB, 2K, 2HR.

Moscoso came in after and wasn't much better giving up 3 in an inning. (was supposed to go 2)

My guess is they'll try to sneak both of these through to AAA but won't loose any sleep if they're claimed.

jcollins is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 05:16 PM
  #157
Nasty Nazem
The North Remembers
 
Nasty Nazem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In my house... duh!
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
Jeffress got the start today in what I think was a bit of an audition and he got shelled. 3 ER in 2IP (he was scheduled to go 3). 4 H, 2BB, 2K, 2HR.

Moscoso came in after and wasn't much better giving up 3 in an inning. (was supposed to go 2)

My guess is they'll try to sneak both of these through to AAA but won't loose any sleep if they're claimed.
They will do that with Moscoso unless he has option(s) left but I am willing to bet Jeffress makes the team. AA and Gibbons themselves have said how impressed they are with him and he is throwing in the high 90's and showing nasty stuff... those types of arm aren't easy to find and you can certainly do worse than having him as your 6/7th man in the bullpen. They tried to stretch him out a bit today because they want to see if he can handle that long man role out of the pen. He did used to be a starter but has often struggled with command so asking him to go 3-4 innings might not work out well.

Moscoco is whatever, he's got no shot at making the roster.

Nasty Nazem is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 05:19 PM
  #158
jcollins
BJ Elitist/Hipster
 
jcollins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
They will do that with Moscoso unless he has option(s) left but I am willing to bet Jeffress makes the team. AA and Gibbons themselves have said how impressed they are with him and he is throwing in the high 90's and showing nasty stuff. They tried to stretch him out a bit today because they want to see if he can handle that long man role out of the pen. He did used to be a starter but has often struggled with command so asking him to go 3-4 innings might not work out well.

Moscoco is whatever, he's got no shot at making the roster.
I thought they'd keep Jeffress too, but they seem to be so high on Loup. And I think they'll keep Cecil.

If it's me making the team, Loup is in AAA ready to be called up if needed.

jcollins is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 05:27 PM
  #159
Everlong
-
 
Everlong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,308
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
NH Fisher Cats ‏@fishercats
Stilson has been pitching out of the bullpen, and tossed 1.1 scoreless yesterday.

I guess they are making him a reliever already.
Was that not the plan all along? All I heard following the draft was the potential this guy had to be a closer. I gotta look back and see how many starts he's actually had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Also wanted to post this:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...stealing-bases

Jonah Keri sits down with Coco Crisp to discuss the art of base stealing.

It's a really interesting read. Crisp gives a ton of insight.
That's pretty cool. Love hearing the player's perspective.

Someone was talking about Votto a page or two ago and it reminded me of a post on Getting Blanked I think where they said he's hit the fewest (or close to it) number of foul balls along the 1st and 2nd baselines the last 2 years. Not sure if that's 100% exactly what was said, I'm just going by my poor memory. Maybe someone else who saw it can key in. It was essentially praising his plate discipline and ability to hit the ball with almost 'jedi like' precision.

Everlong is online now  
Old
03-20-2013, 05:44 PM
  #160
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
 
Eyedea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Greece
Posts: 11,424
vCash: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
Jeffress got the start today in what I think was a bit of an audition and he got shelled. 3 ER in 2IP (he was scheduled to go 3). 4 H, 2BB, 2K, 2HR.

Moscoso came in after and wasn't much better giving up 3 in an inning. (was supposed to go 2)

My guess is they'll try to sneak both of these through to AAA but won't loose any sleep if they're claimed.
After the improvement Jeffress has shown, I doubt they'll try to sneak him down. I don't see Loup, Cecil, and Oliver all fitting into our bullpen, so the obvious choice is to send Loup down. Also that's not really "getting shelled", getting shelled is what happened to Morrow his last time out, or what Buehrle and Romero have had quite often this ST. Point is, it's not about what the other team puts up on you, it's how you feel with your command, movement, and obviously the physical side too.


Last edited by Eyedea: 03-20-2013 at 06:48 PM.
Eyedea is online now  
Old
03-20-2013, 05:47 PM
  #161
Thorntonfan97
Josť Bautista-20 HR
 
Thorntonfan97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Halifax, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,515
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Thorntonfan97 Send a message via Yahoo to Thorntonfan97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
After the improvement Jeffress has shown, I doubt they'll try to sneak him down. I don't see Loup, Cecil, and Oliver fitting in our bullpen, so the obvious choice is to send Loup down. Also that's not really "getting shelled", getting shelled is what happened to Morrow his last time out, or what Buehrle and Romero have had quite often this ST. Point is, it's not about what the other team puts up on you, it's how you feel with your command, movement, and obviously the physical side too.
Are you confusing him with someone else?

Thorntonfan97 is online now  
Old
03-20-2013, 05:53 PM
  #162
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,250
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorntonfan97 View Post
Are you confusing him with someone else?
I think he meant that he doesn't see all 3 of them fitting in. Not that he doesn't see any of them fitting.

I'm drawing up a long post with my bullpen rationale right now. Should have it up in a couple minutes.

The Nemesis is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 06:27 PM
  #163
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,250
vCash: 500
For the bullpen, if we assume that they go with 7 guys and ignore any potential season-starting DL issues:

asterisks (*) represent left-handed pitchers.

The Locks
Janssen - closer job is basically his to lose. He could be slowed by those injury concerns and have Santos cover for him (and maybe steal his job back) but let's ignore that for the time being.

Santos - Seems to be bouncing back well from last year's injury. Had that little issue flare up recently, but other than that he's pretty much a shoe in for at least the setup role.Delabar - He proved himself last year after being acquired. He probably gives up too many homers to be a full time closer, but he fits well as a secondary setup man, high-leverage short innings buy, or even a LOOGY if necessary thanks to his splitter.Oliver* - The team's best reliever last year. Like Delabar, he has the versatility to fit a variety of situations. And even if this is the year that father time finally starts getting to him, he's still at least a capable LOOGY.


The Probables (guys that make the team baring something shocking or unforeseen)

Rogers - His power and some success after leaving Colorado last year make him seemingly a highly probable member of the pen, plus the fact that he was basically the endpoint acquisition for letting John Farrell go, and it'd be bad asset management to have him in the minors unless he sucks beyond measure. He's also out of options, so he'd have to go through waivers if he were sent down, and it seems pretty certain someone would claim him.

Cecil* - Also out of options and a much better pitcher vs lefty hitters than people tend to realize. From a fan persepctive, his struggles as a starter tend to skew perception of him. That middle-relief lefty or even emergency long-man role seems to fit him. In a dire emergency he could even start, but I imagine a lot of fans would break out into a cold sweat if that happened.

The Maybes (guys who could fill out the final spot, but it's not a given)

Jeffress - Again, options are a big issue here. The Jays couldn't send him to Buffalo without exposing him to waivers (and probably losing him). Plus we know the org loves having power arms in the bullpen and he would be the biggest power arm. There are enough other options in the pen too that he could get a lower-leverage role where it's not quite as big a deal if his control deserts him as it has in the past.
Loup* - Would be a victim of the numbers game more than anything. He has options, has 2 lefties in the pen to compete for jobs with (plus Delabar as a sort of honorary lefty) and would just be better asset management to send down and have no risk of losing him for nothing. But he could easily force his way into that final spot.

Happ* - Would go probably only if they figure they need immediate Ricky Romero insurance. Not ideally set in the pen, he could fill the long-man/spot starter role that Carlos Villanueva had last year while waiting to see if Ricky's gonna implode and hand over the #5 starter spot.

Lincoln - Would be used if they don't want to make the pen too lefty-heavy. now that the starter experiment is over, he's much more solidly in play for a bullpen spot. If he could regain the form he had with the Pirates before the trade he would be very good and versatile. Plus even if there's no plans for him to be a permanent starter in Buffalo, he could still be used as an emergency starter.

The longshots (not gonna happen outside of some sort of miracle or rash of injuries)

Romero* - Gibbons said he's the #5 for now and would have a few regular season starts to prove himself. But if he really, really, really sucks for the rest of Spring Training and they see a lot of stuff needing fixing, he could be put into the pen so he can work with Walker and Hentgen and get big league innings to tinker in instead of going to Buffalo (he has options left)

Schwimer - Acquired from the Phillies for a minor league 1B, I think he has 1 option year left, and he's not really been anything to write home about in his brief MLB time. Seems more like depth for Buffalo.

Moscoso - acquired on waivers, he's completely and totally replacement-level at best so they'll probably just try to slide him through waivers to send him down and not shed a tear if someone else picks him up.

McGowan - I think it's expected he starts the season on the DL, but who knows if he surprises and they keep a spot open for him. Of course, who knows what to expect out of him after only logging like 50 innings over the last 4 years combined.

The ultra-dark horses (Bush, Beck, Jenkins, Germano, Ortiz, Vargas, Wagner, Carreno) - Not all of them are on the 40-man roster right now, and several don't even have contracts, but this collection of arms from training camp could always be that 1-in-100 "what the hell is going on" head-scratcher choice if Gibbons loses his mind or there's some sort of bizarre logic that says one should be kept on the big league roster for some reason. But don't hold your breath.


I think that about covers it. I figure the pen will probably be Janssen, Santos, Delabar, Oliver, Cecil, Rogers, and Jeffress

The Nemesis is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 06:43 PM
  #164
Nasty Nazem
The North Remembers
 
Nasty Nazem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In my house... duh!
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,305
vCash: 500
Yeah I agree with Nem. I've been saying all along the pen will be Janssen/Santos/Oliver/Delabar/Rogers/Cecil/Jeffress barring any injuries. The only guy that might not make it is Cecil but I seriously hope the organization he has value as a LOOGY and at least he is a guy that can start. It wouldn't be pretty but he is a better option than Germano or Vargas of the world, if it gets to that.

Nasty Nazem is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 06:47 PM
  #165
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
 
Eyedea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Greece
Posts: 11,424
vCash: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorntonfan97 View Post
Are you confusing him with someone else?
No. What I was trying to say, like nem said, was that I can't expect all 3 of them to remain in the bullpen. Considering Oliver will reprise our LOOGY role, and Cecil is out of options, Loup is pretty much forced into a depth role in the minors. Jeffress provides heat that is always a premium, and since we're already stocked in lefties you can only expect Loup to go back down.

Eyedea is online now  
Old
03-20-2013, 07:09 PM
  #166
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,250
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
No. What I was trying to say, like nem said, was that I can't expect all 3 of them to remain in the bullpen. Considering Oliver will reprise our LOOGY role, and Cecil is out of options, Loup is pretty much forced into a depth role in the minors. Jeffress provides heat that is always a premium, and since we're already stocked in lefties you can only expect Loup to go back down.
I don't think Oliver will be a LOOGY. He wasn't last year. He was the high-leverage late-innings guy. It was perhaps one of the few bullpen decisions that Farrell made consistently right. They brought Oliver in to get the tough outs regardless of what handedness of batter was coming up.

Cecil seems more likely to take on that LOOGY role (if the Jays decide to have a dedicated pitcher for it) than Oliver.

The Nemesis is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 07:23 PM
  #167
Nasty Nazem
The North Remembers
 
Nasty Nazem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In my house... duh!
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
I don't think Oliver will be a LOOGY. He wasn't last year. He was the high-leverage late-innings guy. It was perhaps one of the few bullpen decisions that Farrell made consistently right. They brought Oliver in to get the tough outs regardless of what handedness of batter was coming up.

Cecil seems more likely to take on that LOOGY role (if the Jays decide to have a dedicated pitcher for it) than Oliver.
They should use Delabar and Cecil to get those lefties out. Delabar splitter eats those lefties up. IIRC, Oliver got righties out at a better clip than lefties and hasn't had any platoon splits the last 4-5 years so I'd expect him to be in set-up role and dominate lefties and righties.

Nasty Nazem is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 07:26 PM
  #168
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
 
Eyedea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Greece
Posts: 11,424
vCash: 350
Right, I use Oliver as a LOOGY (in the show), Delabar is my high leverage guy.

Eyedea is online now  
Old
03-20-2013, 07:28 PM
  #169
Woodman19
#TeamBernier
 
Woodman19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,451
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Yeah I agree with Nem. I've been saying all along the pen will be Janssen/Santos/Oliver/Delabar/Rogers/Cecil/Jeffress barring any injuries. The only guy that might not make it is Cecil but I seriously hope the organization he has value as a LOOGY and at least he is a guy that can start. It wouldn't be pretty but he is a better option than Germano or Vargas of the world, if it gets to that.
Thats basically what I have as well, with the options available to guys like Lincoln and Happ you can keep them around while guys who also have options in Rogers and Delabar are to good to keep stuck in the minors (although you could argue Rogers down too). In the end Lincoln has to bite the bullet in the pen to keep both Cecil and Jeffress around to get a better gauge of where they are in live game action while Loup is the young guy who wont be hurt setting up games in Buffalo, his time will come.

Woodman19 is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 07:32 PM
  #170
Woodman19
#TeamBernier
 
Woodman19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,451
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
They should use Delabar and Cecil to get those lefties out. Delabar splitter eats those lefties up. IIRC, Oliver got righties out at a better clip than lefties and hasn't had any platoon splits the last 4-5 years so I'd expect him to be in set-up role and dominate lefties and righties.
I would use Cecil to get the situational lefties out (Delabar if Cecil has to much recent action) but I think I would use Delabar primarily as the guy to get out of Jams when you need to get K's, like bases loaded no outs type situations.

Luckily for us all, Gibbons is a manager who actually uses his relievers for what they do best rather then just give players the chance to ruin the game for themselves if they clearly don't have it that night like Farrell before finally taking them out.

Woodman19 is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 07:37 PM
  #171
Nasty Nazem
The North Remembers
 
Nasty Nazem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In my house... duh!
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Thats basically what I have as well, with the options available to guys like Lincoln and Happ you can keep them around while guys who also have options in Rogers and Delabar are to good to keep stuck in the minors (although you could argue Rogers down too). In the end Lincoln has to bite the bullet in the pen to keep both Cecil and Jeffress around to get a better gauge of where they are in live game action while Loup is the young guy who wont be hurt setting up games in Buffalo, his time will come.
Rogers doesn't have any options left which is why he is a lock to make the team. Delabar has options left though but yeah, he played too well last season to the point where Jays have to keep him up.

Nasty Nazem is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 07:41 PM
  #172
Dr.Funk
Registered User
 
Dr.Funk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Willypeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,429
vCash: 1060
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
ESPN's doing a ranking of the top 500 players in baseball (consider that there are usually about 750ish players in the league at any given time, excluding guys on the DL.

Obviously not going to list everything, but I will highlight the Blue Jays as their names pop up.

Today was players 500 through 401, with 2 Jays sightings.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/90...13-nos-401-500

463) Steve Delabar (not ranked last year)
445) Rajai Davis (up from 466th last year)

There are also some ex-Jays on the list:

495) Travis Snider (down from 475)
486) John Buck (down from 315)
485) Henderson Alvarez (down from 481)
483) Jason Frasor (unranked last year)
479) Frankie Franks (down from 266)
455) Jon Rauch (down from 389)
413) Marc Rzepczynski (down from 404)
402) Travis d'Arnaud (unranked last year)

So D'Arnaud has never played a big league game but yet is already better than 98 other players.

Dr.Funk is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 07:47 PM
  #173
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,250
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Funk View Post
So D'Arnaud has never played a big league game but yet is already better than 98 other players.
Pretty much.

d'Arnaud is considered almost ready to start in the bigs and for the most part those 98 other players are non-closer bullpen pitchers and bench players, so it's not like he's leapfrogging almost 100 very good everyday players.

The Nemesis is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 08:09 PM
  #174
Woodman19
#TeamBernier
 
Woodman19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,451
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Rogers doesn't have any options left which is why he is a lock to make the team. Delabar has options left though but yeah, he played too well last season to the point where Jays have to keep him up.
Hmm, I thought Rogers had 1 option left. Just as well, I think he deserves to be on the team based on his stuff anyways.

Woodman19 is offline  
Old
03-20-2013, 08:19 PM
  #175
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,250
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Hmm, I thought Rogers had 1 option left. Just as well, I think he deserves to be on the team based on his stuff anyways.
Nope. He was optioned in each of 08, 09, and 10. So he's out of options.

http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2013/1...-and-outrights

The Nemesis is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:31 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.