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Greg Sherman & Co - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM (Part II)

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Old
03-20-2013, 05:38 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Really? Sherman made O'Reilly sit for two months to keep his sacred salary structure intact, and yet he's the guy who will be paying O'Reilly $9 million dollars when all is said and done. Great contract situation? There are certainly worse ones for sure, but Sherman just made his demonstrably worse for no reason whatsoever.
Absolutely. Sherman should have given ROR the 5m/yr immediately. he should have offered 5.5m/yr as soon as the lockout was over, because then ROR would not have gotten injured. O'Reilly definitely has shown he deserved at least close to what Tavares got on his deal. Can't believe 29 other teams hadn't tried that kind of offersheet immediately after he hit RFA status.

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03-20-2013, 05:46 PM
  #52
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Absolutely. Sherman should have given ROR the 5m/yr immediately. he should have offered 5.5m/yr as soon as the lockout was over, because then ROR would not have gotten injured. O'Reilly definitely has shown he deserved at least close to what Tavares got on his deal. Can't believe 29 other teams hadn't tried that kind of offersheet immediately after he hit RFA status.
Oh, this again...

Never said they should have simply caved. I still maintain the Avs and O'Reilly could've carved something out that gave him something less than what he was demanding, but more than what the Avs were offering. That would've buckled the team's salary structure a bit, but not nearly as much as it has been now.

We'll never know, of course, because the Avs never, ever entered into negotiations with O'Reilly and his agent. Instead, they're now stuck with a salary that's even more than what O'Reilly and his agent were demanding to begin with.

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03-20-2013, 05:55 PM
  #53
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Oh, this again...

Never said they should have simply caved. I still maintain the Avs and O'Reilly could've carved something out that gave him something less than what he was demanding, but more than what the Avs were offering. That would've buckled the team's salary structure a bit, but not nearly as much as it has been now.

We'll never know, of course, because the Avs never, ever entered into negotiations with O'Reilly and his agent. Instead, they're now stuck with a salary that's even more than what O'Reilly and his agent were demanding to begin with.
But do we know if ROR was willing to negotiate down? I've seen nothing that suggested he would come down from what he initially asked for either.

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03-20-2013, 06:04 PM
  #54
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But do we know if ROR was willing to negotiate down? I've seen nothing that suggested he would come down from what he initially asked for either.
His agent went on record to say that they weren't asking for $5 million annually, only that if the Avs wanted to lock his client down long-term, that they "buy" those free agency years. I realize Mark Guy could be a lying shyster, but I believe him in this case. I can see why the Avs were uncomfortable offering him more money than they offered Duchene, but at some point the Avs needed to get pragmatic about the situation, not prideful.

Bottom line, the Avs should've either tried to negotiate a deal, and failing that, been decisive and traded the guy. I went on record back then saying I understood why the Avs weren't pouncing on the first offer they got, but I was also completely exasperated that they didn't actively shop him after "talks" had reached an impasse. They just sat back and listened to offers. I can't tell whether it was hubris driving them down that path, or indecision. Either way it was a stupid gamble undone by an even stupider front office.

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03-20-2013, 09:11 PM
  #55
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I hope Greg Sherman is either replaced or his power limited come trade deadline time. Things have gone from bad to worse and the last thing the club needs is this guy making waves when he's probably on his way out the door.

Even if Pierre Lacroix serves as GM on an interim basis, there's no reason for Colorado to acquire more "Sherman" players. Give a new GM the chance to put his fingerprints on the club.

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03-20-2013, 09:15 PM
  #56
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I hope Greg Sherman is either replaced or his power limited come trade deadline time. Things have gone from bad to worse and the last thing the club needs is this guy making waves when he's probably on his way out the door.

Even if Pierre Lacroix serves as GM on an interim basis, there's no reason for Colorado to acquire more "Sherman" players. Give a new GM the chance to put his fingerprints on the club.
Agreed, who'd want a GM who's improved the team with every trade he's made making trades. God forbid we get another Downie or McGinn trade.

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03-20-2013, 09:17 PM
  #57
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I don't mind Sherman's trades. However I still hold him accountable for keeping Sacco employed.

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03-20-2013, 09:19 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
I hope Greg Sherman is either replaced or his power limited come trade deadline time. Things have gone from bad to worse and the last thing the club needs is this guy making waves when he's probably on his way out the door.

Even if Pierre Lacroix serves as GM on an interim basis, there's no reason for Colorado to acquire more "Sherman" players. Give a new GM the chance to put his fingerprints on the club.
And Giguere it once again?!


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03-20-2013, 09:20 PM
  #59
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I don't mind Sherman's trades. However I still hold him accountable for keeping Sacco employed.
That is in the hands of Josh Kroenke.

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03-20-2013, 09:22 PM
  #60
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I hope Greg Sherman is either replaced or his power limited come trade deadline time. Things have gone from bad to worse and the last thing the club needs is this guy making waves when he's probably on his way out the door.

Even if Pierre Lacroix serves as GM on an interim basis, there's no reason for Colorado to acquire more "Sherman" players. Give a new GM the chance to put his fingerprints on the club.
Nobody was upset with Sherman in the offseason. Now two months into a crappy season, you guys want his head.

If PAP, Mitchell, Varly, McGinn, Downie, and EJ are "Sherman" players, why would you not want any more guys like that?

Can't everyone just relax? This will not be the D going into next year, and if they can mix things up and bring in another legit two way guy, and a good coach, everyone here is gonna feel ridiculous for crying over losing in a shortened season and ending up with another much needed top draft pick.

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03-20-2013, 09:33 PM
  #61
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Agreed, who'd want a GM who's improved the team with every trade he's made making trades. God forbid we get another Downie or McGinn trade.
That's debatable.

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03-20-2013, 09:33 PM
  #62
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Agreed, who'd want a GM who's improved the team with every trade he's made making trades. God forbid we get another Downie or McGinn trade.
Improved the team? The Avalanche are last in the Western Conference and heading for dead last in the entire NHL.

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03-20-2013, 09:36 PM
  #63
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Improved the team? The Avalanche are last in the Western Conference and heading for dead last in the entire NHL.
So that's the GM fault? Sounds like you're scapegoating/

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03-20-2013, 09:36 PM
  #64
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Nobody was upset with Sherman in the offseason. Now two months into a crappy season, you guys want his head.

If PAP, Mitchell, Varly, McGinn, Downie, and EJ are "Sherman" players, why would you not want any more guys like that?

Can't everyone just relax? This will not be the D going into next year, and if they can mix things up and bring in another legit two way guy, and a good coach, everyone here is gonna feel ridiculous for crying over losing in a shortened season and ending up with another much needed top draft pick.
We'll see if that happens.

And I don't think it's ridiculous to call for a guy's head when they've failed to improve upon last season, iced the worst defense in the National Hockey League, bungled the O'Reilly contract situation, and continued to employ a coach who has clearly lost the room.

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03-20-2013, 09:41 PM
  #65
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So that's the GM fault? Sounds like you're scapegoating/
In a word, yes.

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03-20-2013, 09:42 PM
  #66
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In a word, yes.
Curious, how?

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03-20-2013, 09:42 PM
  #67
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That is in the hands of Josh Kroenke.
You think so? Usually it's the GM's decision. Wouldn't surprise me if his hands were tied.

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03-20-2013, 09:45 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Nobody was upset with Sherman in the offseason. Now two months into a crappy season, you guys want his head.
A hockey team doesn't win or lose games in the offseason.

Some people are likely judging Sherman based upon the results of his overall work, as opposed to individually assessing his each and every move. In general, I'd tend to agree with them.

Quote:
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If PAP, Mitchell, Varly, McGinn, Downie, and EJ are "Sherman" players, why would you not want any more guys like that?
There's no question that Sherman seems to have more success with forwards than with defensemen.

Though I've always been a bit cautious with Downie and McGinn, because a lot of the euphoria over them amongst Avs fans was set due to their scoring at unprecedented levels (for them) when they first came over. Kind of like what Mitchell (and Palushaj, for that matter) is doing right now. Perhaps McGinn's benching tonight and overall production this season will teach us caution here. Good player, yes. But looking like 2nd/3rd line talent this season, as opposed to 1st line talent when he first got to Colorado.

Parenteau has admittedly surprised me. He's been just about the Avs most consistent player all season, IMO. And he's been pretty consistently good. Very creative hockey player.

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Can't everyone just relax? This will not be the D going into next year.
With respect, how do you know that? One could have easily assumed the same thing after last season, no? Last year's defense was pretty rotten also, and what did Sherman do? - He resigned three (two certainly mediocre) of the 6 guys he had to multi-year contracts, and signed a 4th who plays just like the worst of the ones he already had - also to a multi-year contract. He upgraded nothing. Yet people should relax and expect something different? In a year when only one of the scrub defensemen has an expiring contract, compared with three expiring after last offseason?

So what makes you so sure the defense will be so very different? With the Avs frugality over the past number of seasons (not to mention Stastny/O'R/Jones being highly overpaid), do you see buyouts coming? Are these scrubs signed to multi-year contracts really tradeable? Where are they going to go?

I have a sickening feeling that the Avs (minus O'Byrne) are kind of stuck with these guys next season, given the questions I just asked above. I really, really, reallyreallyreallyreally hope my sick feeling is wrong.


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03-20-2013, 09:46 PM
  #69
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Curious, how?
How is it not? The GM is in charge of managing player personnel. In this case, the Avalanche's GM has almost completely built the roster (with the exceptions of Paul Stastny, Milan Hejduk, and Cody McLeod), and Colorado is headed for it's second bottom-5 finish in three years.

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03-20-2013, 09:46 PM
  #70
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You think so? Usually it's the GM's decision. Wouldn't surprise me if his hands were tied.
There was an article with Josh last offseason discussing about keeping Sacco and it sounded that he is the man in charge.

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03-20-2013, 09:49 PM
  #71
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How is it not? The GM is in charge of managing player personnel. In this case, the Avalanche's GM has almost completely built the roster (with the exceptions of Paul Stastny, Milan Hejduk, and Cody McLeod), and Colorado is headed for it's second bottom-5 finish in three years.
Isn't the rebuilding philosophy, "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst?" Or am I mistaken?

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03-20-2013, 09:58 PM
  #72
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Isn't the rebuilding philosophy, "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst?" Or am I mistaken?
Colorado isn't rebuilding anymore. Or rather, they can't be.

Two summers ago they were trading away 1st and 2nd round picks for it's goaltender. The defense is a veteran group signed long-term. Matt Duchene, Ryan O'Reilly, and Gabe Landeskog are playing like top flight players.

The next logical step for Colorado this season was a step forward. Instead, they've taken a huge step back, and for once there hasn't been widespread injury problems. The team is just bad.

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03-20-2013, 10:04 PM
  #73
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Colorado isn't rebuilding anymore. Or rather, they can't be.

Two summers ago they were trading away 1st and 2nd round picks for it's goaltender. The defense is a veteran group signed long-term. Matt Duchene, Ryan O'Reilly, and Gabe Landeskog are playing like top flight players.

The next logical step for Colorado this season was a step forward. Instead, they've taken a huge step back, and for once there hasn't been widespread injury problems. The team is just bad.
How you posted it, sounds like a coaching problem than a structure problem. And I disagree, there is nothing about this team so far that gives me hope for playoffs for this season. I too wish the Avs took the next step of improvement, but clearly this defense (I do blame Sherman for) and coach will set this team into rebuilding mode one more season. I am also VERY sure the Front Office knows what the major problems of this team are.

Overall though Sherman has done a fantastic job building this team since 2009.

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03-20-2013, 10:29 PM
  #74
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I have yet to see Downie make any sort of impact aside from a negative one.
Well you're making it pretty clear you didn't watch him last year.

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03-20-2013, 10:30 PM
  #75
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Stewart is putting up points this year, but he only had 30 last year and is NOT EVEN CLOSE to being "the best power forward in the game"

And will you start going at the Downie trade now too??

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