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Old
03-20-2013, 10:19 PM
  #51
Curtinho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
Has Wiercioch torn any rib cage muscles this year?

Thought so.

Pre injury (Feb. 20 against Pens)

13 points in 17 games

0 points in 6 mins against the Pens where he got hurt.

1 assist in 7 games since.

He was expected to miss 4-6 weeks, but he came back in 2.
Did Read have torn rib cage muscles last year? What about 4 years ago? Because Wiercioch is in his rookie season, with our best offensive players injured and is 4 years younger than Read.

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:20 PM
  #52
HavlatMach9
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Originally Posted by Emerica View Post
We traded a 2nd rounder for Bish not even a year ago, he's still fairly young at 26 and Murray has clearly said he isn't going to trade young guys for rentals/older guys like Briere.
Plans change quickly and it's been half a month since that audio. If we are competitive and are buyers at the trade deadline, it'd be foolish to stand guard and not improve the team for the playoffs push, whether we can get a young player who will be of help beyond this season (difficult to acquire) or a veteran who will have experience (easier to find).

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:25 PM
  #53
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why trade cowen, sens need this guy besides methot sens have no shutdown dman. Also I dont think philly will trade voracek, they can easily buyout briere or bryzgalov and sign him, he is the only bright spot for them this year. No thanks to read as well, I like the guy but not gonna trade wier/cowen for him maybe bish + a pick and another prospect. Flyer fans prolly wont take that so no trade here

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:29 PM
  #54
Emerica
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Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Plans change quickly and it's been half a month since that video. If we are competitive and are buyers at the trade deadline, it'd be foolish to stand guard and not improve the team for the playoffs push.
Foolish? Why?

We've been able to come this far with the roster we have, not sure why we wouldn't be able to continue playing this way in the playoffs. There's no pressure on the Sens to go deep in the playoffs or even make the playoffs right now. Sure, it'd be nice to improve the roster but there's no reason to trade younger guys or picks for rentals when we're in year 2 of our rebuild. Murray has said he's fine with trading top prospects for players that are in their twenties that can be part of this team in the future, not sure why he'd change his mind suddenly a month later and decide to trade picks/prospects for rentals. Now that would be foolish.

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:29 PM
  #55
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Briere, Coburn and Read for Karlsson or I hang up this phone right now.

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:29 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Did Read have torn rib cage muscles last year? What about 4 years ago? Because Wiercioch is in his rookie season, with our best offensive players injured and is 4 years younger than Read.
No he just led the league in goals for rookies. He was obviously older, but that's still impressive for a guy in his first year of professional hockey after playing four years in college. Look, you started this thread. You heard the opinions of Flyer's fans. Now you're getting all pissy because not everybody thought your proposals were dream deals from a Flyers prospective. Wiercioch and Bishop are good players, and that's fine. Flyers fans also happen to like Read, despite your best effort to discredit him at the drop of a hat after making the thread for your team to acquire him.

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:36 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
We have a ton of depth on the left side of D (Wiercioch, Borowiecki, Sdao, Claesson, Wikstrand, etc.). Especially with Methot there now.
Methot is a solid #2 Dman along side Kalrsson
Cowen is a perfect #3/4 Dman to be paired with an offensive guy or shutdown role
Wiercioch is looking to be a solid NHL player
Boro is a borderline NHL Dman (one of those guys you play against the Bruins)

The rest aren't what I would call "a ton of depth"

I get your original point but either way I don't give up Cowen in almost any trade. We have too many young forwards, not Dmen.

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:36 PM
  #58
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by deftones1986 View Post
Briere, Coburn and Read for Karlsson or I hang up this phone right now.
I've never seen this guy post before. He's not a Flyers fan (as far as I know), so please don't hold us responsible for that absurd suggestion.

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:38 PM
  #59
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I am a Flyers fan and this thread is a joke as far as I'm concerned hence my trade offer.

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:40 PM
  #60
flyershockey
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Originally Posted by deftones1986 View Post
I am a Flyers fan and this thread is a joke as far as I'm concerned hence my trade offer.
What makes it a joke? I don't like the trade that much, but it's certainly not a "joke" as you would describe it.

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:43 PM
  #61
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I don't see how my offers were a joke. Our fans obviously are just off on how we value the other teams' players. I place a lot of value in Wiercioch and Cowen I'm just speaking to the organizational need for another top end offensive forward like Simmonds or Voracek -- I thought Philly had plenty of offence up front and were lacking in net/on the back-end. It was by no means a joke or an insult to offer what I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
No he just led the league in goals for rookies. He was obviously older, but that's still impressive for a guy in his first year of professional hockey after playing four years in college. Look, you started this thread. You heard the opinions of Flyer's fans. Now you're getting all pissy because not everybody thought your proposals were dream deals from a Flyers prospective. Wiercioch and Bishop are good players, and that's fine. Flyers fans also happen to like Read, despite your best effort to discredit him at the drop of a hat after making the thread for your team to acquire him.
Except I didn't mention Read in this topic...the Philly fans did. I made this topic asking about Voracek and Simmonds.

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:49 PM
  #62
HavlatMach9
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I think including Bishop in these deals is clouding things for Philly. Instead of addressing two needs at once, do it one at a time. Our Dmen are the center pieces in these deals, so

Cowen for Simmonds is fair (but as one mentioned it remains to be seen how Cowen plays after his injury)

For Vorachek, it would have to be Cowen+, the + has to be something major (like a 1st, or Wiercioch), maybe more.

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:55 PM
  #63
deftones1986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I don't see how my offers were a joke. Our fans obviously are just off on how we value the other teams' players. I place a lot of value in Wiercioch and Cowen I'm just speaking to the organizational need for another top end offensive forward like Simmonds or Voracek -- I thought Philly had plenty of offence up front and were lacking in net/on the back-end. It was by no means a joke or an insult to offer what I did.



Except I didn't mention Read in this topic...the Philly fans did. I made this topic asking about Voracek and Simmonds.
Okay saying it was a joke was way out of line and I apologize. I should have said something more along the lines of, "i highly doubt the Flyers will be dealing with Ottawa in this scenario."

The Flyers gave up Richards and Carter to acquire those two guys (+ Schenn, etc...) and rebuild, now you think they are just going to turn around and trade them away? It just seems unlikely to me

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Old
03-20-2013, 10:56 PM
  #64
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
I think including Bishop in these deals is clouding things for Philly. Instead of addressing two needs at once, do it one at a time. Our Dmen are the center pieces in these deals, so

Cowen for Simmonds is fair (but as one mentioned it remains to be seen how Cowen plays after his injury)

For Vorachek, it would have to be Cowen+, the + has to be something major (like a 1st, or Wiercioch), maybe more.
I think you are a little light on your valuations of both players.

Theoretically, I think a healthy Cowen could be the lead asset in a package for Simmonds (as an intellectual excercise), but I don't believe it is something that would interest the Flyers. Cowen just projects too similarly to Coburn, and we've already got two pure defensive guys (Schenn and Grossmann). Simmonds is a guy who combines 25-30 goal production with some of the intangibles that a guy like Neil brings, and he's still quite young. He's a crucial piece for the Flyers moving forward.

Voracek is probably the second most valuable asset on the team at this point after Giroux. (I think the Schenn brothers as a combination are more untouchable, simply because they would likely have to be moved together), but Voracek is our only pure top-line winger and the only player who naturally projects to that role. He's simply not movable for any package Ottawa would realistically offer, including a Cowen + + package. It's basically a non-starter.

I think most Flyers fans consider Bishop an appealing piece, and if Ottawa decides to shop him for rentals / short-term solutions, the Flyers might be a good fit.


Last edited by Jack de la Hoya: 03-20-2013 at 11:02 PM.
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Old
03-20-2013, 10:59 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I don't see how my offers were a joke. Our fans obviously are just off on how we value the other teams' players. I place a lot of value in Wiercioch and Cowen I'm just speaking to the organizational need for another top end offensive forward like Simmonds or Voracek -- I thought Philly had plenty of offence up front and were lacking in net/on the back-end. It was by no means a joke or an insult to offer what I did.



Except I didn't mention Read in this topic...the Philly fans did. I made this topic asking about Voracek and Simmonds.
Which is absurd by itself. Carry on nothing to see in this thread..


Last edited by spiny norman: 03-21-2013 at 12:58 AM. Reason: [/B][/QUOTE]
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Old
03-20-2013, 11:01 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
Has Wiercioch torn any rib cage muscles this year?

Thought so.

Pre injury (Feb. 20 against Pens)

13 points in 17 games

0 points in 6 mins against the Pens where he got hurt.

1 assist in 7 games since.

He was expected to miss 4-6 weeks, but he came back in 2.
Selfish player.

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:06 PM
  #67
flyershockey
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post



Except I didn't mention Read in this topic...the Philly fans did. I made this topic asking about Voracek and Simmonds.
You're right, my mistake. It still doesn't change the fact that you went out of your way to discredit Read for no other reason than some Flyers fans think he's more valuable than you do. Very few Flyers fans have said negative things about Ottawa players here, just that they don't like the value of the trades.

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:09 PM
  #68
Roo Mad Bro
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Selfish player.
Sarcasm?

The Flyers were desperate for any help, and were fighting for their lives in this shortened season because of the start they had.

It shows guts, and as Friedman pointed out, other GM's across the league have taken note.

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:09 PM
  #69
Jack de la Hoya
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Sarcasm?
I think so, yes.

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:40 PM
  #70
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What would Briere cost? Murray likes to bring in guys from the Ottawa area.

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:43 PM
  #71
Jack de la Hoya
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What would Briere cost? Murray likes to bring in guys from the Ottawa area.
Bishop and a pick would probably satisfy most Flyers fans.

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:48 PM
  #72
FolignoQuantumLeap
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Bishop and a pick would probably satisfy most Flyers fans.
If its not a first round pick, I'd be fine with this.

And in general I think this thread has terribly underrated the value of defensemen (especially young defensemen) around the league.

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Old
03-20-2013, 11:56 PM
  #73
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
If its not a first round pick, I'd be fine with this.

And in general I think this thread has terribly underrated the value of defensemen (especially young defensemen) around the league.
Bishop + 2nd would have been ideal, but OTT doesn't have theirs. Someone here (or in one of the other OTT-PHI threads) suggested:

Briere + PHI 2nd (~33-36th overall) for Bishop + OTT 1st (~23-26th overall) which would be a nice return for the Flyers and allowed Ottawa to keep a top 35 pick.

Honestly, though I think many Flyers fans would probably take Bishop + 3rd and not get overly worked up about it if they believed it offered even a chance at solving the goaltending issue.

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Old
03-21-2013, 12:16 AM
  #74
ATdaisuki
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wait guys, i got this.

sens trade:
cowen, 1st (2013), 1st (2014), 2nd (2014), turris, michalek, da costa, bishop, 3rd (2013)

philly trades:
voracek, briere, giroux

break-down
kessel trade for voracek
all the players there minus bishop and the third for giroux
remainder for briere

voracek - giroux - briere
latendresse - spezza - alfie
greening- zibby - silf
o'brien - smith - neil

methot - karlsson
wier - gonchar
phillips - gryba

andy
lehner

voracek and briere acquired for fair value. sure, there's some other random guy throw in there, but he shouldn't matter too much

*disclaimer: don't take this post (too) seriously *
and don't hurt me.....please....

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Old
03-21-2013, 12:40 AM
  #75
Kevin8se7en
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I'm a fan of both teams so I'm not Bias

As a Sens fan, I'm not trading Cowen, and I'd be reluctant to trade Wiercioch
As a Flyers fan, I'm not trading Simmonds or Voracek, and have no reason to trade Read.

Briere for Bishop as a base makes the most sense for both teams IF there was a deal to be made, but I just don't see it happening either way.

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