The problem with re-signing or trading antropov and hainsey is both situations are up to them. They both have nmcs and may not want to be traded due to our hot streak. That being said they may not re-sign either.
I have absolute faith in Chevy. We'll be happy campers on April 4th.
I agree with this, though initially it sounded a lot like just being a blind supporter of Chevy.
I feel confident in saying that if there are no deals made its only because the return for our players was too little or the asking price was too high.
Earlier today I was hoping we'd see some action to either bolster our team now, or for the future. But in reality, I'd rather us do nothing than do something just for the sake of making a move.
We have too many defensemen to do nothing. Something has to give. I don't believe you just bring Kulda back and sign him if you didn't have something planned.
The problem with re-signing or trading antropov and hainsey is both situations are up to them. They both have nmcs and may not want to be traded due to our hot streak. That being said they may not re-sign either.
Nope. According to capgeek Hainsey has a 15 team list to submit and Antropov has a modified NTC. I don't know, but I don't believe either will be a problem (both might not even be active right now).
Asset management is the most overused term on this site. Sigh, we all know that we don't want to let players leave for nothing when they have value. However you need to weigh that against the VALUE of making playoffs, and I am not talking the money lining TNSE pockets. There is huge value to be made in making playoffs for a young team, even if they lose first round. You need to learn how to play in playoffs.
You don't magically go from bottom end team to Stanley Cup contender. You can't just trade assets away at deadline every year then magically become a contender the next year and buy assets and win a Stanley Cup. Doesn't work like that yet. Yes the Jets are likely not a Stanley Cup contending team this year, even if they make playoffs. But that experience will teach them how to win in future years, when we have more talent. That experience is MILES more valuable for a team that NEEDS to start coming out of their rebuild than a draft pick or two that may or more likely may not be ready to start having an impact in 4/5 years when Jets. Jets need that experience right now more than anything.
Not too mention the message it sends your team by sending your veterans away. It's ok to lose, we know you still suck despite your record. That's the message you are sending everyone in that room. Really the message you want to send to your team?
Jets should hold to what they have this year. Get to playoffs and get some experience. That's the most important thing for growing this team as an eventual SC Contender, real experience, rather than some depth picks.
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2012 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS LA KINGS!!! GO JETS GO!
Winnipeg NEEDS to really consider moving their UFA's.
The biggest thing this team is lacking which was discussed in another topic was a winning culture. Nik Antropov and Ron Hainsey hold great value but they aren't winners. Winnipeg should focus on the core they have right now and continue to nurture the development of their youth. If anyone thinks this team or this organization of players is a Stanley Cup contender should reconsider that stance. The likelihood of the players we have developing into superstars is minimal. This would open roster spots for 2013-14 for Zach Redmond and Mark Scheifele who would fit into very well into those spots. Bogo/Enstrom/Stuart/Buff can play big minutes on the point while Redmond continues to adjust to the NHL and the risk vs. reward of acquiring prospects and/or draft choices for those two, in my opinion, way outweighs the risk of the players we acquire being busts or Hainsey and/or Antropov taking their game to the next level.
Winnipeg NEEDS to really consider moving their UFA's.
The biggest thing this team is lacking which was discussed in another topic was a winning culture. Nik Antropov and Ron Hainsey hold great value but they aren't winners. Winnipeg should focus on the core they have right now and continue to nurture the development of their youth. If anyone thinks this team or this organization of players is a Stanley Cup contender should reconsider that stance. The likelihood of the players we have developing into superstars is minimal. This would open roster spots for 2013-14 for Zach Redmond and Mark Scheifele who would fit into very well into those spots. Bogo/Enstrom/Stuart/Buff can play big minutes on the point while Redmond continues to adjust to the NHL and the risk vs. reward of acquiring prospects and/or draft choices for those two, in my opinion, way outweighs the risk of the players we acquire being busts or Hainsey and/or Antropov taking their game to the next level.
oh dear....
So we need to build a winning culture, by removing assets that increase our likelyhood to win because of an arbitrary determination that hainsey and antropov "aren't winners"? That sounds backwards to me.
Nobody has said we are a stanly cup contender. I'd say theres a pretty good likelyhood trouba and schief development into "stars" (not superstars assuming supserstar = crosby/malkin/chara"). I would argue Kane will likely be a star, and bogo will as well. Buff already is.
You want to move hainsey and antropov now, losing them for a playoff run and experience to open space for next year, for two players, one of who in all reality may never skate beyond a rec league level again, the other a rookie ( love schief, but you have to make him earn it), NEXT year. we could just let them walk in the off season, but miss out on those 2 depth picks that will have zero impact in the next 3 years.
Stuart cannot play big minutes. Oh no, he can,but he fails at it. he can physically be on the ice for those minutes, but he is not effective nor conducive to winning when given that much time, and that difficulty of opponents.
you think the 10%> chance that those draft pics become services top 9 or bottom pariing defensemen and the >5% chance they become players as good as hainsey or antro is worth losing a valuable experience in the playoffs and sending a message of "we're serious about competing"
Winnipeg NEEDS to really consider moving their UFA's.
The biggest thing this team is lacking which was discussed in another topic was a winning culture. Nik Antropov and Ron Hainsey hold great value but they aren't winners. Winnipeg should focus on the core they have right now and continue to nurture the development of their youth. If anyone thinks this team or this organization of players is a Stanley Cup contender should reconsider that stance. The likelihood of the players we have developing into superstars is minimal. This would open roster spots for 2013-14 for Zach Redmond and Mark Scheifele who would fit into very well into those spots. Bogo/Enstrom/Stuart/Buff can play big minutes on the point while Redmond continues to adjust to the NHL and the risk vs. reward of acquiring prospects and/or draft choices for those two, in my opinion, way outweighs the risk of the players we acquire being busts or Hainsey and/or Antropov taking their game to the next level.
Your joking right?
What is it with the fans on this board...we are third in the east and yet there are alot of people that are talking about being sellers at the deadline.
What the hell?
I don't know about you, but Id really like to see this team actually succeed and not be floundering anymore, that will do loads for this teams confidence and their drive and desire to win.
You do whats best to make the playoffs each season. Today we are first in the division. So if keeping impending free agents instead of getting some draft picks for them helps make the playoffs so be it.
What is it with the fans on this board...we are third in the east and yet there are alot of people that are talking about being sellers at the deadline.
What the hell?
I don't know about you, but Id really like to see this team actually succeed and not be floundering anymore, that will do loads for this teams confidence and their drive and desire to win.
This shouldn't even be a discussion.
don't be ridiculous... why would we want to give ourselves the best opportunity to win now (without mortgaging the future) when we can limit those chances significantly, but increase our chances considerably less significantly in the future!
to be clear: we shouldn't be buyers, as in trading away good young assets/picks for rentals. That being said, that doesn't mean we should be selling off everything of value. You do that when you tank. we are not tanking. the measured approach is the right one.
When Enstrom comes back, there is absolutely no point in keeping Hainsey. Trade him for a bag of pucks if you must.
I'm starting to get the impression that there will be very little activity this year, particularly with the jets. The market for D just doesn't seem to be there right now. Look at Komisarek, you could have him for nothing yet no takers. If you can only get a 4th or 5th for a guy like Hainsey you might want to keep him and just send Meech down. They probably want 8 d here anyway.
I'm starting to get the impression that there will be very little activity this year, particularly with the jets. The market for D just doesn't seem to be there right now. Look at Komisarek, you could have him for nothing yet no takers. If you can only get a 4th or 5th for a guy like Hainsey you might want to keep him and just send Meech down. They probably want 8 d here anyway.
Komisarek is washed up and expensive.
I think Chevy will get the forward he covets, and I think he will do it by trading lower picks and maybe one of our depth defensemen. We have an abundance of both.
Hainseys says "up to". His list might have zero teams for all we know.
He is a master negotiator
Also, this might be better in the Enstrom/Hainsey thread, but how expendable is Hainsey to us?
Without him, next season we'd have Buff, Enstrom, Bogo, Kulda, Clitty, Stuart, Postma, Redmond and Meech, right?
The difference between that and our current d is that Hainsey and Meech have been replaced with Enstrom and Kulda. Enstrom's better than Hainsey and though we haven't seen Kulda play this year, he's been doing pretty good in the KHL and seems like an upgrade on Meech. Even if he isn't, there's Postma and Redmond too.
I mean, obviously keeping Hainsey over some of the worse players there would be an improvement but we've been playing well with our current lineup and it seems like with Enstrom and Kulda coming in, we could probably trade him without much drop-off, no? Does that sound reasonable? We seem to have a ****load of defensemen.
Nope. According to capgeek Hainsey has a 15 team list to submit and Antropov has a modified NTC. I don't know, but I don't believe either will be a problem (both might not even be active right now).
Asset management is the most overused term on this site. Sigh, we all know that we don't want to let players leave for nothing when they have value. However you need to weigh that against the VALUE of making playoffs, and I am not talking the money lining TNSE pockets. There is huge value to be made in making playoffs for a young team, even if they lose first round. You need to learn how to play in playoffs.
You don't magically go from bottom end team to Stanley Cup contender. You can't just trade assets away at deadline every year then magically become a contender the next year and buy assets and win a Stanley Cup. Doesn't work like that yet. Yes the Jets are likely not a Stanley Cup contending team this year, even if they make playoffs. But that experience will teach them how to win in future years, when we have more talent. That experience is MILES more valuable for a team that NEEDS to start coming out of their rebuild than a draft pick or two that may or more likely may not be ready to start having an impact in 4/5 years when Jets. Jets need that experience right now more than anything.
Not too mention the message it sends your team by sending your veterans away. It's ok to lose, we know you still suck despite your record. That's the message you are sending everyone in that room. Really the message you want to send to your team?
Jets should hold to what they have this year. Get to playoffs and get some experience. That's the most important thing for growing this team as an eventual SC Contender, real experience, rather than some depth picks.
I'm all for dealing away a couple of picks (2nd and 4th) or whatever for someone like Stafford or Stempniak etc.
I'm also all for keeping Hainsey. That said, if Detroit or St. Louis were to offer their 1st, it should be considered.
That would be Chevy's toughest decision to make. A decision that might be easier to make if he can pick up another capable veteran defenseman on the cheap. Someone to lessen the blow and add some insurance in case another injury arises.
Just because some of us say move Hainsey for assests doesn't mean we won't be buying as well.
Chevy has already said he is looking for more of a hockey deal but to me getting a 2nd and 3rd or w/e for hainsey and then turn around and trade those 2nd and 3rd for stafford is the same thing. Its just 2 moves instead of 1.
Just because some of us say move Hainsey for assests doesn't mean we won't be buying as well.
Chevy has already said he is looking for more of a hockey deal but to me getting a 2nd and 3rd or w/e for hainsey and then turn around and trade those 2nd and 3rd for stafford is the same thing. Its just 2 moves instead of 1.
Seeing as how we have (3) 2nd rounders and (2) 3rd Rounders, i'm okay with keeping Hainsey and seeing what damage this team can do. I'd let Hainsey walk on Jul 1 in trade for us getting a taste of playoff hockey. We already have 11 picks this year.
Chevy pretty well answered this question yesterday in the WFP.
Quote:
"I'm not so worried about third or not. If we get into the playoffs, then we deserve to get in there. Third or sixth or eighth or fifth, it would be a great opportunity for our young players to go to the playoffs," said Cheveldayoff. "That's obviously what you are trying to do. Now, you don't sell the farm to do it, but in the same breath you don't sit here and look at the opportunity and say, 'nah, we'll wait until next year.' You take what you can get and you run with it."
Don't sell your key assets at our stage, but also don't sit on your hands and stand pat given our position.
Honestly, every word I hear from this org. so far has inspired more and more faith. Just because decisions like what to do with Hainsey are so difficult and involve so many factors but I think we're all fairly confident that we can trust Chevy to not make any stupid or rash moves and that's because he's earned it. I mean, I might be singing a different tune in a few years but for now I just love that our team seems to be in such good hands.
Depending on IF the Jets make the playoffs and who their 1st rd opponent, they could conceivably make it thru to the 2nd rd, and quite possibly be fortunate enough to meet up with a beatable or beaten up team.
That said, the Jets need to be very mindful of this situation, and avoid giving away experience or depth without receiving a use-able player in return.
Players like Stewart, Stafford +/or Raymond would be good additions, even a rental like Iginla would be a sweet deadline pickup. However, Chevy has to be very careful not to give away assets that may be needed thru a tough "unexpected" playoff run, and/or picks that might turn out to be the few missing pieces to make this young team a contender in a few short years.
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