HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

Oilers lose 4-3 in SO

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-21-2013, 01:26 AM
  #326
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
You conveniently left out Potter and Fistric in your "assessment".

According to your conclusion, Fistric is far and away our best defenseman and Potter is better than Smid.
Sorry neither have played >20 games (enough sample size). I'll add them:

Potter 0.935
Fistric 0.966

Both of these guys have higher on-ice SAVE% but much lower QualCOMP compared to Smid/Petry.

A sign of a team using it's defensemen "properly" is all the defensemen have equal on-ice SV%, with differing QualCOMP's based on their skill level.

Potter/Fistric have Smid/Petry/Whitney-level on-iceSV% because they're being used appropriately as bottom-pairing defensemen with lower level of competition.

The Schultzes have seen similar QualCOMP to Fistric, and have done much poorer. Fistric playing LD is actually a much safer bet in the defensive zone than J/N. Schultz - I'll be the first to admit that.

Potter's QualCOMP is the easiest on the team - but this is a #7 defenseman we're talking about so I'm not going to bring him up in this comparison. He's nowhere in the class of defensemen of the guys listed above.

But if Whitney/N.Schultz/Fistric are placed on the right side in Potter's spot, my bet is that their performance is even worse than his.

EDIT: Actually Ryan Whitney has played some Potter-level QualCOMP as well this season. Nick/Justin have seen a Fistric-level of QualCOMP and are struggling compred to him.
Whitney/Potter are being sheltered ridonkulously whenever on the ice at ES.


Last edited by The Perfect Human*: 03-21-2013 at 01:32 AM.
The Perfect Human* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 01:26 AM
  #327
KarmaPolice
Masterdebater
 
KarmaPolice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In Limbo
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,127
vCash: 999
Send a message via MSN to KarmaPolice
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Absolutely. He has played well, but then poorly, and then well again, and then poorly, he has to play better on a more consistent basis.
Unfortunately, this has been the main knock on him since his early junior days. I think this will be something that will likely forever plague him and his career.

KarmaPolice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 01:37 AM
  #328
jmoss45
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: EDM
Posts: 785
vCash: 500
How does Kruger expect people to believe he's not playing to conserve the lead when he benches guys like yakupov so that Petrell can take regular shifts in the 3rd?

jmoss45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 01:38 AM
  #329
TheNumber4
Registered User
 
TheNumber4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 504
vCash: 500
All the bounces went Oilers way tonight and we ended up losing. Here's why:

Dubnyk was HORRIBLE tonight. 1st goal was bad, why would he sweep a trapped puck out and into the open like that. 3rd goal was a wrister he missed, just like the previous 2 in the game (that hit the post).

The 3rd goal was mostly Smyth's fault. He did what he has been doing all year. Lazily trying to get pucks out of the zone, it's either they barely make it out or they get picked off. Tonight it got picked off. Smyth is too old and tired to put the effort needed to even chip pucks out properly. Have seen him **** it up many times this year but tonight it cost us a goal. Still love Smyth but he NEEDS to hang em up. He just doesn't have the athleticism to cut it in this league anymore.


Last edited by dnicks17: 03-21-2013 at 01:51 AM. Reason: "retarded"
TheNumber4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 01:39 AM
  #330
KarmaPolice
Masterdebater
 
KarmaPolice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In Limbo
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,127
vCash: 999
Send a message via MSN to KarmaPolice
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoss45 View Post
How does Kruger expect people to believe he's not playing to conserve the lead when he benches guys like yakupov so that Petrell can take regular shifts in the 3rd?
Don't forget OT. Yakupov never saw a shift there, either. He's probably a better pick in the shootout than Hemsky, as well. Bah.

KarmaPolice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 01:45 AM
  #331
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,674
vCash: 500
I'm spewing a bunch of Advanced Stats lingo in my past few posts, so I'd thought I'd clarify:

Smid/Petry - see a high level of competition - Dubnyk has a ~0.930 save percentage with them on the ice
Keeping their heads up out of the water in terms of GA with some tough competition - but this pairing doesn't do enough offensively to be a legitimate top-pairing

Fistric - low-middle level quality of competition - Dubnyk has a 0.966 save percentage when he's on the ice (small sample size) -
Being used appropriately on the 3rd pairing - I wouldn't do a thing to change his role, as long as he's playing LD

J.Schultz/N.Schultz - low-middle level quality of competition - Dubnyk has a 0.912/0.897 Save% with these 2 on.
Being given a middle-pairing minutes while facing low-middle QoC - clearly Dubnyk struggles when these 2 are on.

Whitney/Potter - easiest quality of competition - Dubnyk has 0.928/0.938 Save% when these guys are on.
Being used appropriately with stupid-easy competition

The Perfect Human* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 01:54 AM
  #332
rosemount289
Registered User
 
rosemount289's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 464
vCash: 500
Have to agree.........!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNumber4 View Post
All the bounces went Oilers way tonight and we ended up losing. Here's why:

Dubnyk was HORRIBLE tonight. 1st goal was retarded, why would he sweep a trapped puck out and into the open like that. 3rd goal was a wrister he missed, just like the previous 2 in the game (that hit the post).

The 3rd goal was mostly Smyth's fault. He did what he has been doing all year. Lazily trying to get pucks out of the zone, it's either they barely make it out or they get picked off. Tonight it got picked off. Smyth is too old and tired to put the effort needed to even chip pucks out properly. Have seen him **** it up many times this year but tonight it cost us a goal. Still love Smyth but he NEEDS to hang em up. He just doesn't have the athleticism to cut it in this league anymore.
I have to agree with the assessment......just do not have confidence in Dubnyk in tight games..he always seem to gave up easy goals and make a silly mistake in the most inappropriate time........Can we get Bishop out of Ottawa for a second round pick??.......also Smyth looks like he lost a step or two and he was never fast n the first place.

rosemount289 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 01:54 AM
  #333
Yablo21
Registered User
 
Yablo21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Beersbie
Country: Canada
Posts: 298
vCash: 500
Just posted this poll for the next 5 games, as I see it as a defining moment of the season.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1381427

Yablo21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 02:02 AM
  #334
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,826
vCash: 3099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yablo21 View Post
Just posted this poll for the next 5 games, as I see it as a defining moment of the season.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1381427
You should look at the last five games of the season. We play the Ducks twice back to back, Chicago and Vancouver as well. You would have a better chance of seeing Santa mud wrestling the Easter Bunny than you would of watching any playoff games involving the Oilers this season.

If it is playoff hockey you want, check out the Oil Kings on Friday night and Sunday.

I am the Liquor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 02:05 AM
  #335
BlueChip01
Registered User
 
BlueChip01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
It makes me sick to my stomach that that puke Couture is probably having a hearty laugh at our expense after his arrogant comments and 2 goal/shootout goal performance. He might just be my new least favorite player in the league after his pathetic comments tonight.
What did the donkey look a like say?

BlueChip01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 02:08 AM
  #336
Moonlapse Vertigo
Katz n' MacT BFFs
 
Moonlapse Vertigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,070
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
What did the donkey look a like say?
Here's what I said to Bryanbryoil.

Quote:
He whined about the Oilers getting all of the breaks from the referees and insinuated (in a not so subtle fashion) that the attention and "respect" that the young Oilers get is unwarranted. He's not all together wrong when you look at our results so far but I've never heard something so condescending and arrogant during an interview with a player before. They usually deal in cliches and watch their tongues. It was... odd.

Moonlapse Vertigo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 02:18 AM
  #337
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,674
vCash: 500
Right now Justin Schultz is a Joe Corvo-level player (circa last year). Below average even-strength that is passable in a bottom pairing role as long as he's getting top-level PP minutes to produce like he does. Obviously he's much better in that PP role than Corvo is, but the even-strength use is the same.

Both of them struggle with GA/60 whenever given an anything more than a bottom-pairing role, and struggle to produce GF/60 irregardless of their super-human PP production.

Basically, Schultz at 22 is playing like Fowler at 18-19. Fowler obviously has a higher ceiling than Schultz thanks to him having a higher developmental potential (that good at 18-19), but Schultz in 2-3 years will likely be as good as Fowler is now at even-strength. 2nd pairing role, team not struggling when he's on the ice - basically a Petry.
Fowler's points being down this year is a bit of an anomaly - perhaps explainable because ANA's PP game is more focused on below-the-dots play than with point play (unless Souray/Beachemin are on the ice). Regardless, I expect him to be back at that 30-40 point pace again soon.

As Schultz develops, I hope to see him develop an ES point production ability with a passable top-4 defensive ability. Basically a useful 2nd pairing defenseman. If things pan out he could become a Tomas Kaberle for us. A useful piece on a team as long as it's being used properly (#1 PP, 2nd pairing ES minutes, minimal PK)

In terms of overall on-ice performance at age 22, he's playing similar to a 23-year old Petry for us in terms of ES play. Obviously his PP production is another tier, but Petry provides a good model for what we can expect Schultz to become as an ES player in the next few years. Great in a 2nd pairing role, perhaps passable in a top-pairing role if given the right partner.

Pretty sweet pick-up for a free-agent.


Last edited by The Perfect Human*: 03-21-2013 at 02:33 AM.
The Perfect Human* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 02:30 AM
  #338
sid49
Registered User
 
sid49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 1,528
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Right now Justin Schultz is a Joe Corvo-level player (circa last year). Below average even-strength that is passable in a bottom pairing role as long as he's getting top-level PP minutes to produce like he does. Obviously he's much better in that PP role than Corvo is, but the even-strength use is the same.

Both of them struggle with GA/60 whenever given an anything more than a bottom-pairing role, and struggle to produce GF/60 irregardless of their super-human PP production.

As Schultz develops, I hope to see him develop an ES point production ability with a passable top-4 defensive ability. Basically a useful 2nd pairing defenseman. If things pan out he could become a Tomas Kaberle for us. A useful piece on a team as long as it's being used properly (#1 PP, 2nd pairing ES minutes, minimal PK)

In terms of overall on-ice performance at age 22, he's playing similar to a 23-year old Petry for us in terms of ES play. Obviously his PP production is another tier, but Petry provides a good model for what we can expect Schultz to become as an ES player in the next few years. Great in a 2nd pairing role, perhaps passable in a top-pairing role if given the right partner.

Pretty sweet pick-up for a free-agent.
... Hes never played more then 40 games a season in his career. Add in all the travel and adjusting to playing in 2 leagues that he's never played in before in his rookie season? He's gonna be alooooooooot better then Petry.

This is the second time in under a week that this long nosed coach has lost us the game. Stop shortening your bench you idiot! It doesn't work! He plays to get to the shootout, yet we suck dick in the shootout. I said this before, we will never go anywhere with this coach. I would rather have a 14 year old girl coach this team.

And as for Ryan Smyth... #YOLO

sid49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 02:34 AM
  #339
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sid49 View Post
... Hes never played more then 40 games a season in his career. Add in all the travel and adjusting to playing in 2 leagues that he's never played in before in his rookie season? He's gonna be alooooooooot better then Petry.

This is the second time in under a week that this long nosed coach has lost us the game. Stop shortening your bench you idiot! It doesn't work! He plays to get to the shootout, yet we suck dick in the shootout. I said this before, we will never go anywhere with this coach. I would rather have a 14 year old girl coach this team.

And as for Ryan Smyth... #YOLO
These are all the same adjustments Petry had to make as a rookie defenseman.

This isn't an insult to Schultz - Petry is a helluva defenseman at even-strength when used properly.

I don't think Schultz will ever be at his level in terms of shot-blocking, physicality, or other things relevant to a good PKer. I hope the Oilers are never in a situation where Schultz becomes a go-to guy for the PK.

The Perfect Human* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 02:38 AM
  #340
sid49
Registered User
 
sid49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 1,528
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
These are all the same adjustments Petry had to make as a rookie defenseman.
Forgot to add playing in a condensed schedule. I think Schultz is a better defenceman then Petry is right now, the kid just looks a little tired.

sid49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 02:39 AM
  #341
MessierII
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Right now Justin Schultz is a Joe Corvo-level player (circa last year). Below average even-strength that is passable in a bottom pairing role as long as he's getting top-level PP minutes to produce like he does. Obviously he's much better in that PP role than Corvo is, but the even-strength use is the same.

Both of them struggle with GA/60 whenever given an anything more than a bottom-pairing role, and struggle to produce GF/60 irregardless of their super-human PP production.

Basically, Schultz at 22 is playing like Fowler at 18-19. Fowler obviously has a higher ceiling than Schultz thanks to him having a higher developmental potential (that good at 18-19), but Schultz in 2-3 years will likely be as good as Fowler is now at even-strength. 2nd pairing role, team not struggling when he's on the ice - basically a Petry.
Fowler's points being down this year is a bit of an anomaly - perhaps explainable because ANA's PP game is more focused on below-the-dots play than with point play (unless Souray/Beachemin are on the ice). Regardless, I expect him to be back at that 30-40 point pace again soon.

As Schultz develops, I hope to see him develop an ES point production ability with a passable top-4 defensive ability. Basically a useful 2nd pairing defenseman. If things pan out he could become a Tomas Kaberle for us. A useful piece on a team as long as it's being used properly (#1 PP, 2nd pairing ES minutes, minimal PK)

In terms of overall on-ice performance at age 22, he's playing similar to a 23-year old Petry for us in terms of ES play. Obviously his PP production is another tier, but Petry provides a good model for what we can expect Schultz to become as an ES player in the next few years. Great in a 2nd pairing role, perhaps passable in a top-pairing role if given the right partner.

Pretty sweet pick-up for a free-agent.
Wow that's a lot of generalizations after 29 games.

MessierII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 02:40 AM
  #342
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,674
vCash: 500
Luca Sbisa is turning into a Smid/Petry hybrid out in ANA - Smid's defensive game combined with Petry's decent puck-moving ability. Helluva stud they have there. Ideal partner with Fowler if they weren't both LHD.

The Perfect Human* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 02:43 AM
  #343
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Wow that's a lot of generalizations after 29 games.
I have a feeling if I'd projected him to be Dan Boyle you'd be applauding and telling me I have great insight.

My analysis of Schultz here is based on his play after 29 games. It's not like his play has fluctuated a lot in terms of ES efficiency/PP production - he's been rather consistent this season in terms of performance. That being said, his development over the course of multiple seasons I feel will be progressive.

I'm sorry, do you have a 50-game NHL sample of Schultz that we can analyze instead? Nothing I said here was a "sure thing" regarding his future development. The only "sure thing" I mentioned was his elite PP ability.


Last edited by The Perfect Human*: 03-21-2013 at 02:58 AM.
The Perfect Human* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 02:44 AM
  #344
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sid49 View Post
Forgot to add playing in a condensed schedule. I think Schultz is a better defenceman then Petry is right now, the kid just looks a little tired.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

At even strength it's not even close IMO. But he's far and away the most productive PP defenseman we've had since Visnovsky/Souray.

The Perfect Human* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 02:50 AM
  #345
sid49
Registered User
 
sid49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 1,528
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

At even strength it's not even close IMO. But he's far and away the most productive PP defenseman we've had since Visnovsky/Souray.
I'm sure you have working eyes, you can tell that his last ten games or so have been below average, throw away all of the stats, its his body. He's not use to this travel and playing 23 minutes a night in the NHL. If you wanna tell me that you didn't see top pairing potential all over this guy in the first 20 games I don't know what you were watching.

sid49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 02:51 AM
  #346
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,674
vCash: 500
And don't forget people, Kaberle was never used properly in Toronto. He put up 67 points one year playing 1st pairing with Bryan McCabe, but was still -1 for the season.

When used properly (2000-2004), he was playing 2nd-pairing ES minutes, a +20, and partnered with a solid shutdown talent (what I project Smid to be for Schultz) - guys like Svehla and Yushkevich. He put up 40+ points a year during this run, the majority of which were ESP.

That is an excellent player to have on your 2nd pairing. It's basically a 1b pairing when it runs at that level of execution.

The Perfect Human* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 02:55 AM
  #347
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sid49 View Post
I'm sure you have working eyes, you can tell that his last ten games or so have been below average, throw away all of the stats, its his body. He's not use to this travel and playing 23 minutes a night in the NHL. If you wanna tell me that you didn't see top pairing potential all over this guy in the first 20 games I don't know what you were watching.
I watched every game, here's what i saw

-ridiculous PP ability - amongst the most productive PP defensemen in the league, amazing to see in a rookie. Suggests elite-level PP production in his future (McCabe, Kaberle, etc)

-below-average, near BAD, ES transition and defensive play. Fair because he was in a 2nd pairing role. Playing above where he should

Justin Schultz isn't a defenseman to lead a break-out right now, I hope I'm not the only one who's noticed this. His break-out ability is quite limited. Not a confident break-out skater like Kindl is in Detroit, nor a confident break-out passer like a young Poti was. That part of his game is yet to mature.

And like I said in my earlier post - it's hard to predict with young defensemen if they ever "figure" this part of their game out. All you can do is hope, and that's what I postulated. IF Schultz can develop decent break-out ability and defensive zone play in a top-4 role he could be a Tomas Kaberle.

The Perfect Human* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 02:59 AM
  #348
sid49
Registered User
 
sid49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 1,528
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
I watched every game, here's what i saw

-ridiculous PP ability - amongst the most productive PP defensemen in the league, amazing to see in a rookie. Suggests elite-level PP production in his future (McCabe, Kaberle, etc)

-below-average ES transition and defensive play. Fair because he was in a 2nd pairing role. Playing above where he should

Justin Schultz isn't a defenseman to lead a break-out, I hope I'm not the only one who's noticed this. His break-out ability is quite limited. Not a confident break-out skater like Kindl is in Detroit, nor a confident break-out passer like a young Poti was. That part of his game is yet to mature.
I think his first pass is just fine? After Whitney probably the best on the team. Really good skater for a defenceman, and thinks the game really well, he's weak though, gets handled on the boards pretty easily ill say that much.

sid49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 03:01 AM
  #349
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,826
vCash: 3099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
And don't forget people, Kaberle was never used properly in Toronto. He put up 67 points one year playing 1st pairing with Bryan McCabe, but was still -1 for the season.

When used properly (2000-2004), he was playing 2nd-pairing ES minutes, a +20, and partnered with a solid shutdown talent (what I project Smid to be for Schultz) - guys like Svehla and Yushkevich. He put up 40+ points a year during this run, the majority of which were ESP.

That is an excellent player to have on your 2nd pairing. It's basically a 1b pairing when it runs at that level of execution.
Justin Schultz = Joe Corvo
Taylor Hall = Brendan Morrow
Jordan Eberle and RNH are overrated.

Im sure there is more but it I try to avoid the obvious trolling.

But it is really almost impossible when everyone takes the bait and quotes your ridiculous comps. It probably doesnt help that you have three or four times more posts than the next closest poster in this thread, or that even after a win, you continually disparage our most promising young players.

I am the Liquor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 03:02 AM
  #350
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sid49 View Post
I think his first pass is just fine? After Whitney probably the best on the team. Really good skater for a defenceman, and thinks the game really well, he's weak though, gets handled on the boards pretty easily ill say that much.
I'd say Petry has a better 1st pass than him. He and Potter have similar break-out ability

And look who you you're comparing him to - Smid, N.Schultz, Potter, Fistric - these are not guys you hold as the benchmark for decent transition play.

Compared to Gilbert and Petry as rookies, his ES puck-moving ability is actually lagging.

The Perfect Human* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:15 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.