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Trade Rumors Thread Part 5: NYR Interested in Boyle, Gaborik Available (MOD: READ OP)

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Old
03-21-2013, 07:59 AM
  #226
GWOW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
The mix of talent is just not working. Richards and Gaborik are too soft and ineffective. If they can find a decent package for Gaborik at the deadline that addresses some depth both on the blue-line and at forward I pull the trigger. However, moving forward, the Rangers have some options coming up through the system:

Hrivik
Fasth
Lindberg
Thomas
McIlrath

And that is not including Kreider + Miller.

I would say that within the next year and a half we will see the next wave of players like we saw when Callahan and Dubinsky came up.
People wanted Gaborik traded in 2011.

Even in a cap world, you don't trade star players as a band aid. Phil Esposito traded guys after 30 games. Sather knows he's still got a Cup contender.

Rookies don't win you Cups. Veterans do. Cap or no cap, I'd rather hedge my bets with Richards and Gaborik for another year and a half than pray some prospect can produce like them in five years, if that.

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03-21-2013, 08:04 AM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
People wanted Gaborik traded in 2011.

Even in a cap world, you don't trade star players as a band aid. Phil Esposito traded guys after 30 games. Sather knows he's still got a Cup contender.

Rookies don't win you Cups. Veterans do. Cap or no cap, I'd rather hedge my bets with Richards and Gaborik for another year and a half than pray some prospect can produce like them in five years, if that.
Actually, if you look at the composition of Cup winners in the Salary Cap era, all of them except for Detroit and LA had significant scoring contributions from players on cheap ELCs.

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:06 AM
  #228
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Keep trading picks and prospects and you will end up like San Jose. The Sharks traded a #1 pick in 08 for a rental. Brian Campbell. They traded a former #1 and a future #1 for Boyle. They made a good selection in 10 with Coyle. Then they traded Coyle and the 11 #1 in the Burns trade. Then they give Burns a ton of money only to see him play on the wing. The Sharks added Pavelski and Couture as young pieces. Pavelski was a late bloomer from Wisconsin. Couture was a #1 from 07 in the Toskala trade. Top heavy team. No depth on the roster. No young players in the system. Now Wilson decides to supplement the roster with cheaper assets. Boyle is 36 with a nearly $7M cap hit. Clowe doesn't have a goal and has a shoulder injury. Doughty nailed Clowe last week re-injuring the shoulder. Too bad Wilson can't trade with himself.

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03-21-2013, 08:08 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Pages and pages of Gaborik trade talk (and fan-generated proposals that will never happen in a thousand years BTW), and nobody seems to remember that the guy who makes the trades is old as balls and set in his ways.

When was the last time Sather traded a superstar/scoring forward for anything? (2004 fire sale notwithstanding)

Trading/signing for superstars is his motif, not trading them away.

Nash
Gaborik
lindros
Bure
Jagr
Kovalev

Sather loves skill. Duh. He's traded for guys five years removed from 30 goal seasons, yet according to some of you, he's magically going to ignore his tenets and trade away a guy 8 months removed from a 2nd 40-plus season in three years.

And when he did/forced to trade goal scorers (mainly on the Oilers) he always wanted established skill in return.

Guerin for Arnott
Tikkanen for Weight
Todd for Nicholls
Messier for Nicholls
Damphousse for Corson
Gretzky for Carson
Klima and Murphy for Carson
Damphousse for Anderson

I'm not Glen Sather, but like Patton says to Rommel, I read his ******* book.

There's no way Gaborik gets traded, and if the stars align and Sather's on acid, even then, he wont do it for 3rd liners, picks and prospects
Great post. Most people here should read this. I stated earlier in the thread that we can stop talking about Gaborik being moved because its just not going to happen this year, and got reamed for it. Glad another person here understands what's going on.

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:12 AM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
People wanted Gaborik traded in 2011.

Even in a cap world, you don't trade star players as a band aid. Phil Esposito traded guys after 30 games. Sather knows he's still got a Cup contender.

Rookies don't win you Cups. Veterans do. Cap or no cap, I'd rather hedge my bets with Richards and Gaborik for another year and a half than pray some prospect can produce like them in five years, if that.
It's not a band-aid trade I was asking for. It's a trade to get this team on the same page.

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:14 AM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Keep trading picks and prospects and you will end up like San Jose. The Sharks traded a #1 pick in 08 for a rental. Brian Campbell. They traded a former #1 and a future #1 for Boyle. They made a good selection in 10 with Coyle. Then they traded Coyle and the 11 #1 in the Burns trade. Then they give Burns a ton of money only to see him play on the wing. The Sharks added Pavelski and Couture as young pieces. Pavelski was a late bloomer from Wisconsin. Couture was a #1 from 07 in the Toskala trade. Top heavy team. No depth on the roster. No young players in the system. Now Wilson decides to supplement the roster with cheaper assets. Boyle is 36 with a nearly $7M cap hit. Clowe doesn't have a goal and has a shoulder injury. Doughty nailed Clowe last week re-injuring the shoulder. Too bad Wilson can't trade with himself.
Agreed. The team can't keep trading away assets, they need to acquire some.

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03-21-2013, 08:21 AM
  #232
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How bad has Komisarik been? I know his cap hit is high, does he only have one year left after this? If only one year left, would he be worth it for a 6th defenseman? I have to be honest I have not seen him play much this past year, but I also think he was expected to to things he was not capable in doing when he signed that contract. If he were only expected to be a shut down d-man on the third pair would that solve our depth issue, especially if Staal comes back?

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03-21-2013, 08:21 AM
  #233
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Please no to Boyle. He's too old. I'd rather see Gaborik split up into depth. A solid 2nd liner and another depth piece or high pick. Although I'd rather not trade him at all.

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03-21-2013, 08:22 AM
  #234
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Wasn't a fan of trading our 1st away, BUT for someone like Rick Nash, who is still well in his prime, it was a must.

I'd never trade a 1st away for a rental, ever.

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03-21-2013, 08:24 AM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Actually, if you look at the composition of Cup winners in the Salary Cap era, all of them except for Detroit and LA had significant scoring contributions from players on cheap ELCs.
I didn't say rookies don't contribute. I said that you can't win a Cup without veterans. Trading Gaborik and Richards pretty much kills any chance of a Cup unless they get top-3 veteran players in return.

What the hell do ELCs have anything to do with it? The difference between A rookie and a 3rd year pro is night and day.

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03-21-2013, 08:30 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
How bad has Komisarik been? I know his cap hit is high, does he only have one year left after this? If only one year left, would he be worth it for a 6th defenseman? I have to be honest I have not seen him play much this past year, but I also think he was expected to to things he was not capable in doing when he signed that contract. If he were only expected to be a shut down d-man on the third pair would that solve our depth issue, especially if Staal comes back?
If Toronto eats half his salary for next season, he wouldn't be THAT bad for a team out there. I could see the Leafs eating half his salary and a team like the Islanders taking the whole cap hit (possible?).

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03-21-2013, 08:31 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
I didn't say rookies don't contribute. I said that you can't win a Cup without veterans. Trading Gaborik and Richards pretty much kills any chance of a Cup unless they get top-3 veteran players in return.

What the hell do ELCs have anything to do with it? The difference between A rookie and a 3rd year pro is night and day.
Just curious which Richards have you been wAtching ? He's been awful all this season and for more than half of last year . Not taking away from a good playoff and better second half last year but thi guy is getting Crosby money to be :
Weak on the puck
Indecisive on the PP
Not been able to move te puck
Not score goals or make many plays .
Yes veterans are necessary to win the cup . Under performing 2 nd highest paid players in the league do not .
As for GAB the guy has produced here and is now being played out of position by the lunatic head coach and underperforming as well and showing signs of slowing down and shying from contact

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03-21-2013, 08:35 AM
  #238
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At this point I'd wager Macilrath can do what Komisarik can do . The guy made his living as a banger and now has bad shoulders and legs . He's finished .

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03-21-2013, 08:39 AM
  #239
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GWOW, I hear what you're saying about Sather's track record. It's a good point.

However I think with the cap the goal posts have definitely moved if that makes sense.

Do I think Gabby will be moved at the deadline? No. That's doubtful. Gabby's value to the team down the stretch is too valuable compared to packages that they could be looking at. But crunching the cap numbers for this summer + and it's clear something significant needs to give. It may nots be Slats' traditional MO but in a weak FA market the return could make it worthwhile.

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:41 AM
  #240
GWOW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Just curious which Richards have you been wAtching ? He's been awful all this season and for more than half of last year . Not taking away from a good playoff and better second half last year but thi guy is getting Crosby money to be :
Weak on the puck
Indecisive on the PP
Not been able to move te puck
Not score goals or make many plays .
Yes veterans are necessary to win the cup . Under performing 2 nd highest paid players in the league do not .
As for GAB the guy has produced here and is now being played out of position by the lunatic head coach and underperforming as well and showing signs of slowing down and shying from contact
I haven't been watching, but I don't need to watch to know you don't trade your star players because of 30 games.

Trading Richards and Gaborik kills this season and ends any hope of a Cup. You guys sound like you want to trade them just to make the playoffs.

Besides, whoever is traded to come here, they will have no honeymoon. They will need to produce immediately towards the end of the stretch drive.

Anybody who's been following this team knows that happens once every 20 or so years. It'd rather take my chances with the guys on the current roster.

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03-21-2013, 08:45 AM
  #241
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Here are the ages of the top three scorers for each Cup winner in the Salary Cap Era

LA
Kopitar 25
Williams 30
Brown 27

Boston
Lucic 22
Krejci 22
Bergeron 25

Chicago
Kane 21
Keith 26
Toews 21

Pittsburgh
Malkin 22
Crosby 21
Staal 20

Detroit
Datsyuk 29
Zetterberg 27
Lidstrom 37

Anaheim
Selanne 36
McDonald 29
Niedermayer 33

Carolina
Staal 21
Williams 24
Stillman 32

It looks like the successful formula is either be led by cheap young talent on ELCs or future hall of famers in the twilight of their prime. Thats why I mentioned ELCs before. When your leading goal scorers are earning low wage, it allows you to allocate that money towards depth, the blue line, and the crease.

The Rangers have a ton of money locked up in Nash (28), Gaborik (30) and Richards (32). If they're not leading the way, it's a problem of inefficiency.

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03-21-2013, 08:46 AM
  #242
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Trading Gaborik essentially ends this season. Nash becomes your only scoring threat so the defense will collapse on him as soon as he touches the pick

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03-21-2013, 08:47 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Trading Gaborik essentially ends this season. Nash becomes your only scoring threat so the defense will collapse on him as soon as he touches the pick
That's ridiculous. You can't say anything definitive about a Gaborik trade until you know what is coming back in the deal.

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03-21-2013, 08:48 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Trading Gaborik essentially ends this season. Nash becomes your only scoring threat so the defense will collapse on him as soon as he touches the pick
They do that now anyways. The Hagelin-Stepan-Callahan line has been great. Nash is a monster. Gaborik has been attempting to ride coat-tails.

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03-21-2013, 08:49 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
GWOW, I hear what you're saying about Sather's track record. It's a good point.

However I think with the cap the goal posts have definitely moved if that makes sense.

Do I think Gabby will be moved at the deadline? No. That's doubtful. Gabby's value to the team down the stretch is too valuable compared to packages that they could be looking at. But crunching the cap numbers for this summer + and it's clear something significant needs to give. It may nots be Slats' traditional MO but in a weak FA market the return could make it worthwhile.
Again, if he's trading Gabs for cap relief, he's better off waiting until after the postseason.

If Gaborik shines in the postseason his value will skyrocket. I'm willing to take that chance than kill this season.

Deep down I think Sather is very pleased with the current roster and knows from his Oiler days that all the BS from the regular season gets thrown out the window when round 1 starts.

Hungry teams who make the CF usually find a way back there within a year or two.

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03-21-2013, 08:50 AM
  #246
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You really can't say it would end the season simply because Gaborik really hasn't done all that much anyway.

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03-21-2013, 08:51 AM
  #247
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They do that now anyways. The Hagelin-Stepan-Callahan line has been great. Nash is a monster. Gaborik has been attempting to ride coat-tails.
It will be 10x worse when they know he's the only threat on the ice and not just because someone is struggling

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03-21-2013, 08:53 AM
  #248
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You really can't say it would end the season simply because Gaborik really hasn't done all that much anyway.
Players still pay attention to defending him. I don't think Nash wanted to come here to be the only threat again. If we trade Gaborik bc of a ridiculously sss that's what it becomes. Nash could have stayed in columbus for that

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03-21-2013, 08:56 AM
  #249
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It will be 10x worse when they know he's the only threat on the ice and not just because someone is struggling
Why will it be worse? Nash has looked great without Richards and Gaborik. He has been getting the other teams best defensemen on a nightly basis and producing. What you are saying above is purely a myth.

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03-21-2013, 08:57 AM
  #250
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Players still pay attention to defending him. I don't think Nash wanted to come here to be the only threat again. If we trade Gaborik bc of a ridiculously sss that's what it becomes. Nash could have stayed in columbus for that
Which is another bullet point in my reasons why we shouldn't trade Gaborik. I'm all for keeping him on this team barring some ridiculous over payment.

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