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Datsyuk v Kariya

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03-20-2013, 02:01 PM
  #1
Crease
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Datsyuk v Kariya

The consensus around here seems to be that Datsyuk is going to eventually get into the HHOF. I've watched him play for many years and I look at his resume and I just don't see a firm case for him over a guy like Kariya. What are your thoughts on the two as far as peak, prime, career, and HHOF prospects?

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03-20-2013, 02:08 PM
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Fred Taylor
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I think Datsyuk is a better player than Kariya and should probably get into the hall before him. Kariya may still get in though I just wish his prime wasn't slowed down due to injuries.

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03-20-2013, 02:14 PM
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JetsAlternate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Taylor View Post
I think Datsyuk is a better player than Kariya and should probably get into the hall before him. Kariya may still get in though I just wish his prime wasn't slowed down due to injuries.
Hearing this makes me realize that three of the players pictured below could have been some of the greatest in the game but instead had their careers hampered and derailed by injuries:



"It's your turn now." Such a shame.


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03-20-2013, 02:25 PM
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[QUOTE=JetsAlternate;62041745]Hearing this makes me realize that three of the players pictured below could have been some of the greatest in the game but instead had their careers hampered and derailed by injuries:



Four. Although technically one is considered one of the highest tier ever in spite of injuries, and another has already been inducted into the Hall... so that could be marked as two of the greatest ever despite injuries.

And the other two were arguably as good/better when on the ice as the "lesser" one who IS in, and they all played a comparable number of games.

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03-20-2013, 02:28 PM
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JetsAlternate
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Four. Although technically one is considered one of the highest tier ever in spite of injuries, and another has already been inducted into the Hall... so that could be marked as two of the greatest ever despite injuries.

And the other two were arguably as good/better when on the ice as the "lesser" one who IS in, and they all played a comparable number of games.
Jagr's career hasn't been hurt too much by injuries. The other three's were. I would agree perhaps Lindros is ahead of Bure, but I would place Bure ahead of Kariya. All four were dominant to some degree and could take control of games single-handedly. Had each of them been healthy, they would have accomplished some incredible things and would been considered in the top tier, in my opinion.

In terms of Kariya vs Datsyuk, one has to taken into account how tremendous Kariya was in his prime. After his concussions, he was not the same player.


Last edited by JetsAlternate: 03-20-2013 at 02:33 PM.
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03-20-2013, 02:28 PM
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jigglysquishy
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I think Datsyuk is better than Kariya. I don't think either makes it into the Hall.

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03-20-2013, 02:41 PM
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Cujomi
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I think a prime Kariya was one of the best players in the league...still remember being a huge Kariya fan when I was a kid. Bure and him were amazing.

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03-20-2013, 02:53 PM
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I think Kariya was probably the better player (red-hot player in his early-20s; Datsyuk didn't really get going until his late-20s), but Datsyuk will be the HOFer. Datsyuk focused more on the defensive aspect of the game, and there's more trophies to be won by leading the league in takeaways than by trying to outscore Jaromir Jagr.

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03-20-2013, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
Jagr's career hasn't been hurt too much by injuries. The other three's were. I would agree perhaps Lindros is ahead of Bure, but I would place Bure ahead of Kariya. All four were dominant to some degree and could take control of games single-handedly. Had each of them been healthy, they would have accomplished some incredible things and would been considered in the top tier, in my opinion.

In terms of Kariya vs Datsyuk, one has to taken into account how tremendous Kariya was in his prime. After his concussions, he was not the same player.
I think he meant Kariya, Lindros, Bure and Lemieux.

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03-20-2013, 03:49 PM
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I like how in that picture Mario is still taller than anyone (except Lindros) despite not wearing skates.

I am going to have to say for a prime vs. prime thing the Kariya/Datsyuk comparison is going in favour of Kariya by a bit. He was just incredible in 1997. I remember thinking that either he or Lindros were going to take the mantle once Mario was gone. Datsyuk has never been the best player in the game but Kariya was a name that was brought up at least.

I think overall though the better career will go to Datsyuk. He is aging well and Kariya didnt. His defensive prowess will also make him a relevant fixture in the game for a while. Plus he's at least redeemed himself with some good Cup runs. Kariya never really had a good Cup run and was lousy in the playoffs.

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03-20-2013, 04:20 PM
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It's unfortunate Kariya situation career was interrupted. The guy was just unbelievable at his peak. He was one of those guys who best be described as 'holy ****' when watching them play.

As far as who is better. I don't know they are hard to compare. He was without question the better offensive player. Datsyuk the unquestioned better defensive player. It's hard to measure the gaps and compare them.

Datsyuk would go in because of career. Kariya would of had he been healthy. I would put them both in because of eye test and fame. They were both an integral part of their era. I would rather have someone in based on that than compiled stats.

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03-20-2013, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
I think Datsyuk is better than Kariya. I don't think either makes it into the Hall.
I respectfully disagree with this entire post.

I think Kariya is better than Datsyuk, although Datsyuk has had a better career. And I think both get in.

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03-20-2013, 11:42 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
Hearing this makes me realize that three of the players pictured below could have been some of the greatest in the game but instead had their careers hampered and derailed by injuries:



"It's your turn now." Such a shame.

look at how Mario is pretty much the same height as Jagr even though Jagr is wearing skates.

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03-21-2013, 12:01 AM
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Fred Taylor
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Lemieux is listed at 6'4 but he has to be atleast 6'5.

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03-21-2013, 12:11 AM
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Always wondered why Bobby Orr wasn't the fourth old-timer...

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03-21-2013, 12:14 AM
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Kariya was better offensively than Datsyuk imo but Datsyuk has the hardware and all the other things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
I think Datsyuk is better than Kariya. I don't think either makes it into the Hall.
Dumb statement imo and if it comes true then it shows what's wrong with the HOF. Let's look at Bob Gainey, he has 5 Selkes while Datsyuk has 3 I believe. Gainey played at 0.5 ppg in a higher scoring era (actually less). Datsyuk has 2 cups instead of Gainey's 5 but Datsyuk's scored at a ppg including part of that in the dead puck era and now the dead puck era 2.0. So Datsyuk's offense along with his youtube level skill more than makes up for any gap in defensive ability if you can even claim that there's a gap in defensive ability.

Though I think Datsyuk has become overrated, he'll enter the HOF even if it's grudgingly and he's certainly more deserving than many of the guys in there. I'd argue the same for Paul Kariya who was one of the best offensive fwds in the dead puck era.

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03-21-2013, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I like how in that picture Mario is still taller than anyone (except Lindros) despite not wearing skates.

I am going to have to say for a prime vs. prime thing the Kariya/Datsyuk comparison is going in favour of Kariya by a bit. He was just incredible in 1997. I remember thinking that either he or Lindros were going to take the mantle once Mario was gone. Datsyuk has never been the best player in the game but Kariya was a name that was brought up at least.

I think overall though the better career will go to Datsyuk. He is aging well and Kariya didnt. His defensive prowess will also make him a relevant fixture in the game for a while. Plus he's at least redeemed himself with some good Cup runs. Kariya never really had a good Cup run and was lousy in the playoffs.
Was Kariya really "lousy" in playoffs? I mean, he was a bit disappointing but it is not like he never really got good chance outside the 2003 final-run.

46 GP
39 P
16 G

Nothing special, but in that timeframe he got out from the first round twice. I know that this is something that could be held against him, but i believe playoffs to be heavily team influenced. He got one good chance and did not cash in then.

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Old
03-21-2013, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I think a prime Kariya was one of the best players in the league...still remember being a huge Kariya fan when I was a kid. Bure and him were amazing.
I agree with that. I still contend that Kariya was one of the most skilled players I have ever watched play the game, so I think he has hall of fame skill, for what that is worth. Though injuries derailed his career to an extent, he still had an impressive peak, and I wonder how things might have been different if he had come along now when there is a lot less clutching and grabbing than when he played. I also wonder if some of his head injuries would have been handled differently with all that we know about concussions now. I will always think of him as one of the greats from that generation of players.

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03-21-2013, 08:40 AM
  #19
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At their best I would pick Kariya over Datsyuk. I think people tend to forget just how slick a talent Kariya was before he got gooned and had his brain scrambled. This was a small winger playing in the dead puck era putting up 100 point seasons! It is unfortunate he got derailed and is a borderline Hall of Famer because he had Hall of Fame talent easily. He and Selanne are very close at their best -- Selanne the better goal scorer and Kariya the better vision imo. What a duo they made.

For career Datsyuk has already surpassed him imo and will end up in the Hall.

Interesting that three of the players in that passing the torch nonsense they did on CBC ended up having their career arcs seriously altered by injury. Too bad.

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03-21-2013, 08:44 AM
  #20
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Interesting that three of the players in that passing the torch nonsense they did on CBC ended up having their career arcs seriously altered by injury. Too bad.
Four.

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03-21-2013, 08:46 AM
  #21
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Always wondered why Bobby Orr wasn't the fourth old-timer...
Because despite how much he wanted to be one, he wasn't a forward?

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03-21-2013, 09:05 AM
  #22
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Four.
If you're trying to count Lemieux, he had serious issues his whole career so that didn't really change anything post-silly-sentimental video.

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