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Old
03-21-2013, 08:42 AM
  #101
guyzeur
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Originally Posted by flyersnut View Post
Why do all fans want the Flyers best players but are willing to give crap back. Propose a good trade that is fair for both sides. You want Voracek then start with either Lehner ++ or Erik Karlsson straight up. Voracek is our best player this year, and Simmonds is our second.
Seriously? Voracek is that good?

Does it mean all the top player on each team are equal in value?

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03-21-2013, 08:44 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
What is a realistic comparable for Cowen's ceiling? Not his role, but a player whose game he is expected to emulate.
Methot, but much better offensively, and hopefully better defensively.

Good skater, uses his size, very solid defensively...

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Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
Seriously? Voracek is that good?

Does it mean all the top player on each team are equal in value?
I believe it's the old hyperbole to prove a point mechanism. Waiting for an Ottawa fan to reply:

"Karlsson!? More like Giroux+ ."

And then everything degenerates and everyone forgets they were talking about Voracek, Bishop and Wiercioch.

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:49 AM
  #103
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
Seriously? Voracek is that good?

Does it mean all the top player on each team are equal in value?
No, he's not. I have no idea why (a few) Flyers fans think that dropping by to drop Karlsson's name into the thread is a productive use of their time.

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And then everything degenerates and everyone forgets they were talking about Voracek, Bishop and Wiercioch.
To be fair, Bishop + Wierioch is a pretty poor framework for Simmonds and an absurd starting point for Voracek. The OP didn't get this thread off to a great start, and it has sort of been a constant challenge to keep it from going completely off the rails.

Some Flyers fans would accept Bishop + Wierioch for Read, others would hate that deal, and obviously Simmonds and Voracek are viewed as more valuable pieces than Read.

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:51 AM
  #104
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Can we please not start the Karlsson v. Giroux drama again?

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:51 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Who are you actually interested in from the Flyers? I can't tell.

Obviously Voracek and Simmonds hold significantly more value than Wierioch, impressive recent play notwithstanding. I can't imagine you believe otherwise, and certainly most of your fellow Senators fans don't think so.

If you think Wierioch is better and holds more value than Read, I really can't figure out what you're trying to accomplish in the thread.
The Sens board is completely infatuated with Weiriecoch

It's borderline embarassing to be honest

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:52 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
The Sens board is completely infatuated with Weiriecoch

It's borderline embarassing to be honest
To be honest, Wiercioch is not the kind of defenseman the Flyers need at this point, but he would help.

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:53 AM
  #107
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borderline embarassing is Philli's place in the standings.......

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:56 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by spartachris View Post
borderline embarassing is Philli's place in the standings.......
On that we can agree.

On the other hand, I'm not sure that you want to start a discussion about team success since 1992.

Buuuuuuuuut, to get the thread back on track, Philly's place is the standings is exactly the reason why some of the team's vets could be available, so how about them Briere / Mezsaros / Fedotenko types?

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:57 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Who are you actually interested in from the Flyers? I can't tell.

Obviously Voracek and Simmonds hold significantly more value than Wierioch, impressive recent play notwithstanding. I can't imagine you believe otherwise, and certainly most of your fellow Senators fans don't think so.

If you think Wierioch is better and holds more value than Read, I really can't figure out what you're trying to accomplish in the thread.
I'm interested in Read, Voracek and Schenn mostly. I know the last two are off the table.

Yes Simmonds and Voracek hold more value.

But Wiercioch is better and more valuable than Read. What I'm trying to accomplish is to make you understand that you're undervaluing Wiercioch a lot. He's been one of the very best Senators this season and that team sits like 6th in the league or something. He's much better than a guy like Schenn for example. With Timonen getting old, the Flyers need young D badly. Wiercioch would be the best of the bunch.

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:57 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by spartachris View Post
borderline embarassing is Philli's place in the standings.......
Agreed. That's why I can't wait until we get our high draft pick as reward for patience and get back to winning next year.

It's annoying how petty other franchise's fanbases get when the Flyers are losing.

"All your players suck. Give them all to us for free!"

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:01 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post

But Wiercioch is better and more valuable than Read. What I'm trying to accomplish is to make you understand that you're undervaluing Wiercioch a lot. He's been one of the very best Senators this season and that team sits like 6th in the league or something. He's much better than a guy like Schenn for example. With Timonen getting old, the Flyers need young D badly. Wiercioch would be the best of the bunch.
Neither of those things seems true to me, but I think I'm understanding why we aren't going to be able to find fair value for any deal.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:04 AM
  #112
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I stated what I did because petty other franchise's fanbases are saying to Rookies who are both player well are crap.......Bishop and Weir....are decent players.

Sens fans don't expect them on the all star team....But we do hold value to guys that step up.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:07 AM
  #113
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by spartachris View Post
I stated what I did because petty other franchise's fanbases are saying to Rookies who are both player well are crap.......Bishop and Weir....are decent players.

Sens fans don't expect them on the all star team....But we do hold value to guys that step up.
...what?

Where did anyone say any of the Senators discussed here were "crap?"

All I can remember anyone asking for is a larger sample size for success.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:08 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
He's much better than a guy like Schenn for example.
It's about time you quit smoking. It's doing you no favors.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:11 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
You need to put down the pot.
Luke. I've seen a lot of both thank very much, and yes Wier is better. The Flyers don't have anyone near Wier in their system

Wiercioch is essentially a super sized Justin Schultz (more defensive potential for sure)

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:12 AM
  #116
HavlatMach9
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MAK what would want from Philly for Methot?

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:13 AM
  #117
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The only thing more difficult than reading this trade board when the trolls come a knockin' is pronouncing Wiercioch.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:15 AM
  #118
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Wiercioch is essentially a super sized Justin Schultz (more defensive potential for sure)
...oh I really hope some Edmonton fans see this.

He's a real find for Ottawa if that is true. So I assume you hold him more highly valued than Cowen?

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03-21-2013, 09:15 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Luke. I've seen a lot of both thank very much, and yes Wier is better. The Flyers don't have anyone near Wier in their system

Wiercioch is essentially a super sized Justin Schultz (more defensive potential for sure)
No. Wiercioch is not better than Luke Schenn.

Could he be down the road? Possibly.

I don't think it's going to happen though. Luke Schenn's reputation on HFBoards has nothing to do with how he actually plays.




Seriously...I'm ****ing dumbfounded by that notion. Wiercioch is not better than Luke Schenn.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:16 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by spartachris View Post
I stated what I did because petty other franchise's fanbases are saying to Rookies who are both player well are crap.......Bishop and Weir....are decent players.

Sens fans don't expect them on the all star team....But we do hold value to guys that step up.
Well I have not seen many Flyer fans on here call them crap. But they need to play more than 16 games to acrue better value. That is all.

Bishop has been a .500 goalie for his career. Philly currently has one as well and he is getting hammered by fans and media. Hell, Bryz was 17 games over .500 last year and STILL got hammered for weak goals.

As For Weir, rookie defensemen with 16 games under their belt don't have much value unless they have high draft ranking. If he continues his pace, this time next year his value will be seen as higher.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:22 AM
  #121
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If Wiercioch was on Philly, he'd be on the 3rd pair, and on the 1st PP. He's an offensive dman who is almost 6'5'' and has not filled out his frame. He's a project and developing very well but has a long way to go before netting valuable pieces in a trade.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:26 AM
  #122
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
If Wiercioch was on Philly, he'd be on the 3rd pair, and on the 1st PP. He's an offensive dman who is almost 6'5'' and has not filled out his frame. He's a project and developing very well but has a long way to go before netting valuable pieces in a trade.
I doubt he would take Timonen's place on the first PP unit (the Flyers only use one defenseman).

But the second? That sounds about right. Then again, we've had Gustafsson, Foster, and Coburn out there at various points, so it isn't a high bar.

Wierioch would obviously be a very nice piece for the Flyers, but there just doesn't seem to be a deal to be made. I'm not sure that the team would benefit from getting a player who is still so raw anyway--we don't have a great track record at developing defensemen.

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03-21-2013, 09:30 AM
  #123
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To be honest, Wiercioch is not the kind of defenseman the Flyers need at this point, but he would help.
I was under the impression you guys were looking for some offensive dmen

You guys have all the defensive d you need no (Coburn, Schenn etc..)?

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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I doubt he would take Timonen's place on the first PP unit (the Flyers only use one defenseman).

But the second? That sounds about right. Then again, we've had Gustafsson, Foster, and Coburn out there at various points, so it isn't a high bar.

Wierioch would obviously be a very nice piece for the Flyers, but there just doesn't seem to be a deal to be made. I'm not sure that the team would benefit from getting a player who is still so raw anyway--we don't have a great track record at developing defensemen.
I still think there could be something done around Bishop + Weiricoch but it would be more than just Matt Read but it couldn't be much more either maybe Read + 3rd? I think you guys could use both a goalie and a good young offensive dman and we certainly need a good RW. But the the third is so lackluster and you guys certainly can't afford to give up prospects...


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Old
03-21-2013, 09:30 AM
  #124
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Let me just address a couple of things to try and help this "discussion".

To those Flyer fans who were upset at the notion that OP was making a joke with this thread- I assure you: he is not joking. In all the encounters I've had with him, and the countless other posts I've read of his I've never once come across anything that even remotely resembles humour. He's serious. Serious as a heart attack, or Asperger's.

Wiercioch is someone I would be reluctant to trade- but I personally believe in developing your own rather swapping to address needs. I know that trades will sometimes really turn the tides in a team's favour, but I've never seen it happen with my team, and that's the constant I'm concerned with.

Having said all that, I completely understand your reluctance to part with Simmonds and Voracek. They are great players, and I hope you understand a Sens fan coveting them.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:32 AM
  #125
MAK19
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MAK what would want from Philly for Methot?
Read. I think that's pretty fair though Philly may not need that kind of player

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