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Adam Oates would be tearing up today's NHL.

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Old
03-18-2013, 06:27 PM
  #51
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by PsychoDad View Post
Thank you for the insightful post. I really think that Hull is full of **** though. Maybe he has some sort of a grudge against Oates for mentioning specifically Zezel as being the reason for that season. Or maybe it sounds bad without a context and he just wanted to acknowledge some other players having part on his top seasons.
Well when Oates got inducted this past November he specifically spoke of Hull (who was out in the crowd) in great light. Saying something along the lines of "Hullsie, you know how I think of you." Hull himself also spoke highly of Oates in the short video presentation for him. I don't think there is any hard feelings, those two were born to be linemates and they knew it.

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03-18-2013, 06:31 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Well when Oates got inducted this past November he specifically spoke of Hull (who was out in the crowd) in great light. Saying something along the lines of "Hullsie, you know how I think of you." Hull himself also spoke highly of Oates in the short video presentation for him. I don't think there is any hard feelings, those two were born to be linemates and they knew it.
Yeah, so maybe its just about giving Zezel some tribute too.

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03-19-2013, 09:25 AM
  #53
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Indeed he would. Oates was probably one of the best playmakers of the 90's. Don't think he's better than Crosby or Malkin but he's still a good playmaker.

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03-19-2013, 12:26 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by PsychoDad View Post
He would be better than any of them. Oates is only player to center 3! 50 goal scorers. Oates literally made good players like Hull and Neely into hall of famers.

I am afraid I will disagree.

Cameron Michael Neely had quite impressive offensive stats before Adam Oates joined him at the Boston Bruins club.

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03-19-2013, 01:17 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
I am afraid I will disagree.

Cameron Michael Neely had quite impressive offensive stats before Adam Oates joined him at the Boston Bruins club.
Yes, I pointed this out to him but he never came back to defend. I'll say it again though, only 115 of Neely's 395 goals came when Oates was wearing a Bruins sweater and it is too hard to say how many goals came from OT's stick. Yes, one of those seasons was the famous 50 in 46 games. That probably did put him into the Hall but that can not and it is not the sole reason for his enshrinement.

It's starting to feel like everything around here is based on stats, awards and trophy cases. We talked about Bob Nystrom, they call him "Mr Islander", why do they call him that over the likes of the players he played with??? Potvin, Bossy, Trottier, Gillies and Smith all made the HoF but they call Nystrom "Mr Islander" for a reason.

Here's a good ol fashion hockey expression, "je ne sais quoi" players like Nystrom and Neely had it. It's not on the stat sheet or put in a trophy case so it can be neatly displayed by HFBoard posters. Neely is consider the best power forward to ever play (not my words), he was selected 4 times as 2nd team allstar, to which Steve Yzerman can claim 3 first team allstars and zero seconds. So, Neely does have some of the glam and Oates sure did help but Oates isn't the story on Neely. Neely was already established. The Neely Oates combo didn't bring the Bruins to the Stanley Cup finals but pre-Oates Bruins made it twice.

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03-19-2013, 03:23 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Balloonknott View Post
No clutch n grab? (Sheesh)
There's no doubt this guy wouldn't be putting up sick points.
As a matter of fact, I'm surprised so many here compare Crosby to Lemieux or Gretzky, when in fact his game is more relevant to Oates.
i.e. Gretzky and Lemieux were goal scorers, where Crosby isn't.

Comments?

Opinions?

.
He would be a robot just liek all the other drones out there...

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03-19-2013, 05:39 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
I am afraid I will disagree.

Cameron Michael Neely had quite impressive offensive stats before Adam Oates joined him at the Boston Bruins club.
He did, but his best season was under Oates for sure. 50-in-49. 74 points in 50 games. Those are numbers that Neely never had before. He peaked at 92 points. He was on pace for 124 points in that 1993-'94 year. Maybe he doesn't keep up that pace but I wouldn't doubt it if he gets at least 110. That was again Adam Oates inflating a player's stats. Heck even Brett Hull's numbers were never the same without him.

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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Indeed he would. Oates was probably one of the best playmakers of the 90's. Don't think he's better than Crosby or Malkin but he's still a good playmaker.
I sincerely think if you did a poll and asked who is a better playmaker between Oates and Crosby you'd have a tough call. There is no doubt Crosby is the better player overall but to just isolate it to playmaking? Very close and possibly in Oates' favour as of now. Remember, Oates wasn't a huge goal scoring threat. He was thinking pass first all the time. Other teams knew this and still somehow he was able to set up players for goals all the time. It is almost like a quarterback in the NFL who passes 90% of the time and despite the defenses knowing this he still connects.

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03-19-2013, 09:35 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
He did, but his best season was under Oates for sure. 50-in-49. 74 points in 50 games. Those are numbers that Neely never had before. He peaked at 92 points. He was on pace for 124 points in that 1993-'94 year. Maybe he doesn't keep up that pace but I wouldn't doubt it if he gets at least 110. That was again Adam Oates inflating a player's stats. Heck even Brett Hull's numbers were never the same without him. .
i don't remember, but was neely even more injured than usual in his last 5 games of the '94 season? how did he go scoreless in the games after hitting 50? according to the stats sheet i'm looking at, he had eight goals in the previous five games.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Well when Oates got inducted this past November he specifically spoke of Hull (who was out in the crowd) in great light. Saying something along the lines of "Hullsie, you know how I think of you." Hull himself also spoke highly of Oates in the short video presentation for him. I don't think there is any hard feelings, those two were born to be linemates and they knew it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoDad View Post
Thank you for the insightful post. I really think that Hull is full of **** though. Maybe he has some sort of a grudge against Oates for mentioning specifically Zezel as being the reason for that season. Or maybe it sounds bad without a context and he just wanted to acknowledge some other players having part on his top seasons.
by all accounts, hull and oates were best friends when they played together. the warmth showed during oates' HHOF induction suggests that there's no bad blood.

i was disappointed that when hull was enshrined in '09, he didn't single out any teammates except zezel, who had just died. i remember pretty clearly looking forward to what heartfelt things he'd say about his old buddy adam.

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03-20-2013, 03:22 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i don't remember, but was neely even more injured than usual in his last 5 games of the '94 season? how did he go scoreless in the games after hitting 50? according to the stats sheet i'm looking at, he had eight goals in the previous five games.
His knee was torched so that may have had some bearing on it. He may have been playing at that time when he shouldn't have. That's going to drop your point totals, Oates or not.

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03-20-2013, 05:29 PM
  #60
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I don't think he would be more than a 60 point player today.

Of course, he's 50 years old.

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03-21-2013, 04:13 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
I am afraid I will disagree.

Cameron Michael Neely had quite impressive offensive stats before Adam Oates joined him at the Boston Bruins club.
Yeah, I actually did but you didnt seem to notice.
Cam Neely doesn't go to HHOF without his 50 in 50 season. He is already a questionable entry for a big part of the hockey community based on the longevity of his career and the lack of individual and team hardware. And i am a big Neely fan.

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03-21-2013, 04:15 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Indeed he would. Oates was probably one of the best playmakers of the 90's. Don't think he's better than Crosby or Malkin but he's still a good playmaker.
I really doubt that Crosby or Malkin are any better as playmakers. Malkin for sure is not, but of course is better at pretty much everything else.

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03-21-2013, 05:50 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
I don't think he would be more than a 60 point player today.

Of course, he's 50 years old.
Ha! In or around 1960 just before his death, Ty Cobb was asked by some reporter what he thought he could hit in that era of baseball. Cobb said .290. The reporter, a little confused, said "just .290"? Cobb replied, "Well, I'm 72 &#@* years old you son of a &*$#@!"

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03-21-2013, 10:20 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i don't remember, but was neely even more injured than usual in his last 5 games of the '94 season? how did he go scoreless in the games after hitting 50? according to the stats sheet i'm looking at, he had eight goals in the previous five games..
As someone that watched it, he leg was torn up all season long, he was done but somehow managed to do it. He hit 50 in 44 games than the next 5 games he stayed off the scoreboard for goals. Remember he did not hit 50 in 50 straight games. He took several breaks throughout the season to heal up and at least show up on the ice for some games.

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03-22-2013, 08:28 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by PsychoDad View Post
I really doubt that Crosby or Malkin are any better as playmakers. Malkin for sure is not, but of course is better at pretty much everything else.
Adam Oates may have been the best playmaker not named Gretzky, he was that good at passing the puck. Oates lacked speed, had a pretty weak shot and he did not have that kind of game breaker mentality stars are made of. While Oates was good with the puck, I don’t recall him as a dangle master either.

Crosby and Malkin are not good comparisons as they are dynamic and flashy, something which Oates never was. Adam Oates reminds more of Igor Larionov. Both were solid chess players on the ice who let the more dynamic players steal the show.

Oates in today’s NHL would not tear the league up, but he would do what he always did: quietly rack up tons of assists without people seriously considering him as one of the best players in the game (because he was not).

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04-30-2013, 12:20 AM
  #66
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okay, so another notch in adam oates's playmaking belt.

he centers brett hull to 50-in-50 and a retro rocket.

he centers neely to 50-in-50.

he centers bondra to a retro rocket.

but then he coaches alex ovechkin, in the middle of a years-long funk, to 23 goals in 23 games and, yes, another rocket richard trophy.

has any other player been directly involved in great years by this many truly elite goal scorers? the closest i can think of is coffey, but after gretzky, kurri, and mario, were any of the other 50 goal scorers coffey helped truly elite in the way the ones listed above are?

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04-30-2013, 12:23 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
okay, so another notch in adam oates's playmaking belt.

he centers brett hull to 50-in-50 and a retro rocket.

he centers neely to 50-in-50.

he centers bondra to a retro rocket.

but then he coaches alex ovechkin, in the middle of a years-long funk, to 23 goals in 23 games and, yes, another rocket richard trophy.

has any other player been directly involved in great years by this many truly elite goal scorers? the closest i can think of is coffey, but after gretzky, kurri, and mario, were any of the other 50 goal scorers coffey helped truly elite in the way the ones listed above are?
Fedorov? 56 goals in 1993-94 and never again higher than 39. That wasn't just Coffey though, obviously, but he was involved.

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04-30-2013, 12:27 AM
  #68
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Fedorov? 56 goals in 1993-94 and never again higher than 39. That wasn't just Coffey though, obviously, but he was involved.
i guess i meant elite in the rocket richard-winning or historically good (neely in '94) sense.

i guess it's debatable whether '98 bondra and his 51 goals was much better, or better at all, than fedorov's 56 in '94. but bondra was certainly a more "truly elite" goalscorer if you look at him as a guy who had two rockets, 4 top fives, and 6 top tens.


but anyway, the real point of all that was... adam oates is tearing up today's NHL.

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04-30-2013, 12:29 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i guess i meant elite in the rocket richard-winning or historically good (neely in '94) sense.

i guess it's debatable whether '98 bondra and his 51 goals was much better, or better at all, than fedorov's 56 in '94. but bondra was certainly a more "truly elite" goalscorer if you look at him as a guy who had two rockets, 4 top fives, and 6 top tens.


but anyway, the real point of all that was... adam oates is tearing up today's NHL.
Oates is also the guy responsible for moving Ilya Kovalchuk to the RW in NJ, and was the assistant coach there last year when Kovalchuk had the best season of his career as an all-round player.

Devils fans were highly critical of Oates at first too - "ROFL - he wants to move Kovy to RW because he's right handed? What is this, lane hockey? What is this, the 1950s?" Shows how much fans on the internet know.

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04-30-2013, 01:33 AM
  #70
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Oates is also the guy responsible for moving Ilya Kovalchuk to the RW in NJ, and was the assistant coach there last year when Kovalchuk had the best season of his career as an all-round player.

Devils fans were highly critical of Oates at first too - "ROFL - he wants to move Kovy to RW because he's right handed? What is this, lane hockey? What is this, the 1950s?" Shows how much fans on the internet know.
Yes, we may be witnessing the unfolding of a great hockey mind. Oates would know about how a player sees the ice, but that doesn't necessarily translate into being a good coach. I think Gretzky struggled with it, but he never had anyone of Kovalchuk's, Ovechkin's or Backstrom's abilities either. What Oates has done with Ovechkin and the Caps this year is impressive. He revived a sinking player and team in a shortened season.

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04-30-2013, 01:58 AM
  #71
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Plus, Adam Oates also mentored Stamkos in TBL; Oates was credited for Stamkos improvement over his rookie campaign.

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04-30-2013, 08:32 AM
  #72
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He would be a robot just liek all the other drones out there...
Ya the guys today couldn't make it back then, too bad there isn't a sticky for them eh?

I really wish the "they are just robots today crowd" would go watch a practice at actual ice level and see the skill and work that goes on.

Coaches coach systems because they are interested in winning games, there is no lack of talent out there.

Oates was a very skilled play maker and had great hockey IQ, his stats would be lower but he's still be a very good top 6 type of player.

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04-30-2013, 08:46 AM
  #73
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Ya the guys today couldn't make it back then, too bad there isn't a sticky for them eh?

I really wish the "they are just robots today crowd" would go watch a practice at actual ice level and see the skill and work that goes on.

Coaches coach systems because they are interested in winning games, there is no lack of talent out there.

Oates was a very skilled play maker and had great hockey IQ, his stats would be lower but he's still be a very good top 6 type of player.
First off, players are not coached to win today, they are coached not to lose. There is a difference.

To touch on something said earlier...the reason why its better from a coaches standpoint to actually have a right hand shot on the right wing is for defensive play. Namely for getting the puck out of your own zone.

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04-30-2013, 09:16 AM
  #74
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First off, players are not coached to win today, they are coached not to lose. There is a difference.

To touch on something said earlier...the reason why its better from a coaches standpoint to actually have a right hand shot on the right wing is for defensive play. Namely for getting the puck out of your own zone.
Only part of the reason. If you have a puck carrying LW - Ovechkin or Kovalchuk, who is a RHS it is very easy for the defensemen to attack his stick which is inside to inhibit puck possession, passing and shooting. Put the same player on the RW and the boards keep the puck safer while the player's body protects the defensemen from attacking the puck from the inside. Same reasoning for moving a LHS to LW from RW.

Also if you play a LHS on LW and a RHS on RW, regardless of the handedness of the centre the ice is widened by upwards of 20 feet than if you play a LHS on RW and a RHS on LW. 5 on 5 this creates wider passing and shooting lanes, better attack lanes and arcs to the net, also by default the winger has better body position going to the net since he is open watching the offensive zone, both points while body shielding his stick from defensemen protecting the slot while showing the stick blade for passes and deflections. All this is vital with the return of the east/west game.

Backchecking is also improved with a RHS on RW and a LHS on LW as it is easier to defend the stretch pass diagonally thru the middle.

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04-30-2013, 11:37 AM
  #75
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Oates was and is great a great playmaker, there's nothing more to it. Unfortunately he was not much more than an all-time great playmaker when summoning up his whole deal.

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