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Gainey Genius Koivu/Briere

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Old
08-04-2006, 09:49 AM
  #51
Le depisteur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacketFlo View Post
Anyone RECALL whom Saku played with in the Olympics and what he did?
2006: Silver
Selanne and Lehtinen

R Name Team Pos GP G A PTS PIM +/-
1 SELANNE Teemu FIN F 8 6 5 11 4 +7
2 KOIVU Saku FIN F 8 3 8 11 12 +5
3 ALFREDSSON Daniel SWE F 8 5 5 10 4 +2
3 HOSSA Marian SVK F 6 5 5 10 4 +9


2002: No Saku, no medal


1998: Beated Canada to win the Bronze


Last edited by Le depisteur: 08-04-2006 at 09:56 AM.
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Old
08-04-2006, 09:58 AM
  #52
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pretty stupid debate

if I were building a new franchise you have to go with briere, his career stats dont mean much when he is just starting to reach his potential in the last couple of years, next would be koivu, as savard is more or less an overpaid robiero with
amazing linemates for the last couple of years....

but as a habs fan, I would never trade koivu for briere, he is the heart of this franchise

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08-04-2006, 09:59 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacketFlo View Post
Anyone RECALL whom Saku played with in the Olympics and what he did?
Saku with good linemates = Saku with lots of points.

I always wondered why they split up Saku and Kovy...Was it a lack of Chemistry or an attempt to add more scoring to the 2nd line?

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Old
08-04-2006, 10:32 AM
  #54
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When i first read that Briere might be traded and that Montreal was interested, I thought we should do anything we could to get him. But the more I think about it, the less I think getting Briere would be a good move. It's just too much money for a player with only one REALLY good year, plus, we would have had to given a lot to get him. I mean, look at St.louis; I bet every team in the league would have gladly given him 5+ (and tampa did) after his first good year where he won the Art, but now there are probably a lot less of those teams, and Tampa is stuck with huge budget problems.

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08-04-2006, 10:34 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Saku with good linemates = Saku with lots of points.

I always wondered why they split up Saku and Kovy...Was it a lack of Chemistry or an attempt to add more scoring to the 2nd line?
I think it was an attempt to make Ribeiro look respectable because before they went down to injury Kovy and Koivu were at pretty much a ppg pace but the Dags - Ribs - Ryder line was sucking hard and Ribs was publicly blaming Ryder for not converting all his "great" set-ups. So it wasn't due to a lack of chemistry between Saku and Alex.

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08-04-2006, 10:49 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Hotstreak View Post
When i first read that Briere might be traded and that Montreal was interested, I thought we should do anything we could to get him. But the more I think about it, the less I think getting Briere would be a good move. It's just too much money for a player with only one REALLY good year, plus, we would have had to given a lot to get him. I mean, look at St.louis; I bet every team in the league would have gladly given him 5+ (and tampa did) after his first good year where he won the Art, but now there are probably a lot less of those teams, and Tampa is stuck with huge budget problems.
That's how I feel too.

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08-04-2006, 10:51 AM
  #57
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Good Post And One Darn Good Point!

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Old
08-04-2006, 12:59 PM
  #58
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I know exactly what Saku did, I just wanted to make sure everyone knew too!

I was proud to see him do so well at the international stage. He is a warrior and a true leader! he deserves to retire a HAB...





Quote:
Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
2006: Silver
Selanne and Lehtinen

R Name Team Pos GP G A PTS PIM +/-
1 SELANNE Teemu FIN F 8 6 5 11 4 +7
2 KOIVU Saku FIN F 8 3 8 11 12 +5
3 ALFREDSSON Daniel SWE F 8 5 5 10 4 +2
3 HOSSA Marian SVK F 6 5 5 10 4 +9


2002: No Saku, no medal


1998: Beated Canada to win the Bronze

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Old
08-04-2006, 01:02 PM
  #59
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There was a time when I was so grumpy about Koivu-disrespecting that a thread like this one was a goldmine for adding people to my ignore list. But hey, it's summer, the sun is shining, the humidity is down, and... well, we don't have ignore lists anymore, do we?

100% agreed. Now, that said, I do vaguely understand why some posters would want Briere. If he's on the market next summer after a dismal season (I hope he has a dismal season!) and if the cap goes up to the point where we could consider adding him, then I'd certainly be ready to consider it. Not at the expense of Koivu, of course, but Briere has some spunk and zip to his game that I would ultimately take over what Ribeiro brings, even given the cost disparity.

(And of course, all that said, I don't think there is any point in arguing this with any Sabres fans who come along. I wouldn't blame them for wanting to keep their guy too.)
I also agree with both Darz and Blind Gardien. Just to add - Saku is our captain and our leader. He means more to us than just point totals. He holds people accountable for their play on the ice. It was VERY evident that Carolina destroyed us when Saku went down. It wasn't Cam Ward that was the difference, it was Rod Brind'Amour having free reign on the ice. Saku was criticized for his play in the first 2 games of that series because he wasn't producing, but it was painfully evident that he had kept Brind'Amour in check.

Now in comparing Saku with Briere, it just simply cannot be done. Briere hasn't done anything in his career to merit a 5 million dollar salary imo. Saku's deal wasn't awarded, it was negotiated when he could have walked to another team. Some would argue, "wouldn't you want a 28 year old for 5 million rather than Koivu for 4.5?" Sure on the surface, ya maybe, but we're talking about 2 different things. Briere WILL sign with Buffalo, which means that we'll have to trade for him. What would we have to give Buffalo to get him?? A lot I would imagine. Instead we signed Koivu for 4.5 and we didn't have to trade anybody to get him. Apples and oranges here.

Koivu as a UFA at 4.5 or trade for Briere at 5 million...no brainer if you ask me. Koivu ten times out of ten.

Cap

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Old
08-04-2006, 01:11 PM
  #60
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Lok for me it is simple as that, People should stop saying * If briere was healthy he could do 100pts*
Well look, we'll never finish debating if we all say "YES BUT WHAT IF" , that is ridiculous, now we have Koivu, let's be happy with him. Even Saku isn't always healthy and doesn't have the same team Briere have.
If you guys think that he was that good, why I didn't heard of him that much when he was with the coyotes and all? ok maybe I was deaf?

That's my personal opinion and a lot wont agree anyways. I also say that comparing their points means nothing to me. I think that both players are different and Saku Koivu showed us that he has leadership on ice .
If I could get Briere, I'd take him but not REMPLACE him to Saku. Never and especially not at that price.

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Old
08-04-2006, 02:07 PM
  #61
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I heard so many time things like "Koivu is always injure" ans stuff like that. Now, Briere was injure and it's the 1st things Briere fan look at because due to his injury he got 1PPG. Hey why bashing on Koivu if we LOVE so much Briere who was injure half of the season.

Anybody says that we need a big center so what do we do if we trade for briere? we trade hium against a Big Center because we still dont have one? We demote him and we bring Cory Urqarth in the team? Why not? At least he's big. Some are ready to take Arnott over Koivu so...

A lot of fans says, European play only for the $$$$ and why when no cash is on the line(Int Tournement) They beat us? Koivu play only for the cash but when he isnt play he's the best player on the earth. And our big strong quebecers/canadian. SUCKS.

Give good linemate to koivu and he'll be good. Higgins scored 7 goal in about 60 games and score 16 in 26 games with Koivu. Thats not enough? what should he do? Make him win the Art Ross in only 26 games?

And why Koivu didnt bring back the cup to montreal? Uh... Next Question....

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08-04-2006, 02:24 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kostitsyn1489 View Post
I heard so many time things like "Koivu is always injure" ans stuff like that. Now, Briere was injure and it's the 1st things Briere fan look at because due to his injury he got 1PPG. Hey why bashing on Koivu if we LOVE so much Briere who was injure half of the season.

Anybody says that we need a big center so what do we do if we trade for briere? we trade hium against a Big Center because we still dont have one? We demote him and we bring Cory Urqarth in the team? Why not? At least he's big. Some are ready to take Arnott over Koivu so...

A lot of fans says, European play only for the $$$$ and why when no cash is on the line(Int Tournement) They beat us? Koivu play only for the cash but when he isnt play he's the best player on the earth. And our big strong quebecers/canadian. SUCKS.

Give good linemate to koivu and he'll be good. Higgins scored 7 goal in about 60 games and score 16 in 26 games with Koivu. Thats not enough? what should he do? Make him win the Art Ross in only 26 games?

And why Koivu didnt bring back the cup to montreal? Uh... Next Question....
The real question is not: who's better. Now, it's more: will Koivu be back in september? That's the most factual question of all.

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Old
08-04-2006, 02:55 PM
  #63
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I think he will and if not... our team must suck it up and work harder. Injury happens during season we must be able to win during this time too. We cant build a team on one player only we must have player who can step up during this time.

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Old
08-04-2006, 03:49 PM
  #64
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To me it's simple, both players are fairly equal when you compare their stats from last year, but Koivu came back from a serious knee injury and cancer, which very few professional athletes (if any) can say they did, and still be the heart and soul of this franchise.

His leadership is not comparable to Briere's or anyone else on the Habs, and game 4, 5 and 6 this year is proof that Koivu brings more to this team then Briere ever could.

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08-04-2006, 04:37 PM
  #65
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I can't exactly figure out why this debate is even going on... The only reason I can really think of is that Briere is from Quebec. If this is the case it is very sad . All you need to do is compare career stats and you will know who the consistent performer is...cancer or no...injured or no...


Briere Career Stats:
Season Team GP G A P +/- PIM PP SH GW GT Shots Pct
2005-2006 Sabres 48 25 33 58 3 48 11 0 4 0 147 17
2003-2004 Sabres 82 28 37 65 -7 70 11 0 3 0 194 14.4
2002-2003 Sabres 14 7 5 12 1 12 5 0 1 0 39 17.9
2002-2003 Coyotes 68 17 29 46 -21 50 4 0 3 1 142 12
2001-2002 Coyotes 78 32 28 60 6 52 12 0 5 1 149 21.5
2000-2001 Coyotes 30 11 4 15 -2 12 9 0 1 0 43 25.6
1999-2000 Coyotes 13 1 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 1 9 11.1
1998-1999 Coyotes 64 8 14 22 -3 30 2 0 2 0 90 8.9
1997-1998 Coyotes 5 1 0 1 1 2 0 0 0 0 4 25

NHL Totals: 402 130 151 281 -22 276 54 0 19 3 817 15.9


Career Playoff Stats
Season Team GP G A P +/- PIM PP SH GW GT Shots Pct
2005-2006 Sabres 18 8 11 19 0 12 3 0 2 0 47 17
2001-2002 Coyotes 5 2 1 3 -4 2 1 0 1 0 12 16.7
1999-2000 Coyotes 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0

NHL Totals: 24 10 12 22 -4 14 4 0 3 2 60 16.7

Koivu
Career Regular Season Stats
Season Team GP G A P +/- PIM PP SH GW GT Shots Pct
2005-2006 Canadiens 72 17 45 62 1 70 5 0 4 0 138 12.3
2003-2004 Canadiens 68 14 41 55 -5 52 5 0 3 0 112 12.5
2002-2003 Canadiens 82 21 50 71 5 72 5 1 5 0 147 14.3
2001-2002 Canadiens 3 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0
2000-2001 Canadiens 54 17 30 47 2 40 7 0 3 2 113 15
1999-2000 Canadiens 24 3 18 21 7 14 1 0 0 1 53 5.7
1998-1999 Canadiens 65 14 30 44 -7 38 4 2 0 0 145 9.7
1997-1998 Canadiens 69 14 43 57 8 48 2 2 3 0 145 9.7
1996-1997 Canadiens 50 17 39 56 7 38 5 0 3 0 135 12.6
1995-1996 Canadiens 82 20 25 45 -7 40 8 3 2 1 136 14.7

NHL Totals: 569 137 323 460 11 412 42 8 23 4 1,126 12.2


Career Playoff Stats
Season Team GP G A P +/- PIM PP SH GW GT Shots Pct
2005-2006 Canadiens 3 0 2 2 1 2 0 0 0 0 1 0
2003-2004 Canadiens 11 3 8 11 1 10 2 0 0 0 27 11.1
2001-2002 Canadiens 12 4 6 10 2 4 1 0 1 0 16 25
1997-1998 Canadiens 6 2 3 5 4 2 1 0 0 0 14 14.3
1996-1997 Canadiens 5 1 3 4 1 10 0 0 0 0 10 10
1995-1996 Canadiens 6 3 1 4 2 0 0 0 0 1 3 23.1

NHL Totals: 43 13 23 36 11 36 4 0 1 0 81 16.0


The proof is there in black and white. Koivu is hands down a better player. Briere in only 3 years younger and hasn't achieved anything close to what Koivu has...not to mention coming back from serious Cancer and all the chemo and radiation he had to endure. Anyone who thinks Briere is better for the Habs needs their head examined. I'd take Koivu over Briere any day of the week...and he's cheaper!! haha Yay Bob

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Old
08-04-2006, 05:21 PM
  #66
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if ribs sucks it up, i'll glady take briere next offseason at 4.5 million.

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08-04-2006, 05:32 PM
  #67
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Lets see

If Briere would have been an UFA

when you think of the taxes, media ( + His english speaking kids in French Schools )

He would have cost us 6 Million

take off the taxes that is more or less 4 Mill in his pocket

Koivu at 4 something ?

Plus the Captain insignia, the Dumb Media and a team that is in never ending reconstruction ( it seems to some ... )

I would have asked 9 Million

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08-04-2006, 06:26 PM
  #68
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I don't like Koivu, i hate him.

But we all have to agree 4.5 isnt overpay for a captain, who got a great work ethic and have the potential to have 60 assists with good foward and if he stay heatly...

I think when he get injury at young age, he never been the same player after that, and with his "cancer" ( dont know word in english ) that make a difference in the final count.

Right now, for offensive skillz, i rather love Briere to be my first center. But in a organisation like the Habs, Koivu fits very well, and if he stay heatly, and if guys like Kovalev, Samsonov, Johnson, Higgins and Ryder did well on PP and even strench, he can hit 25 goals 60 assits, and that would be a great season for him ( Individual Stats ).

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08-04-2006, 06:35 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSK View Post
I don't like Koivu, i hate him.

How can anyone "hate" Koivu. That is so freaking bizarre to me. The guy plays with heart, determination, has a great skill level, brings his all every shift, and has fought back from cancer.

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Old
08-04-2006, 06:46 PM
  #70
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How can anyone "hate" Koivu. That is so freaking bizarre to me. The guy plays with heart, determination, has a great skill level, brings his all every shift, and has fought back from cancer.
He's european.

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08-04-2006, 06:56 PM
  #71
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I'd rather have Koivu in my lineup than Briere... Koivu brings so many things to the game, he is a captain (just like Briere though), a leader, has experienced international success, came back from cancer, on the ice he is gritty, a great player to have in pretty much any situation (other than a fight with Chara I guess!) and scores at almost a ppg pace when healthy. Offensively, every line he has ever been on was at least decent in Montreal! He produced at almost a ppg pace when playing with Brian Savage and Oleg Petrov...

Briere imo doesn't bring that much, and had only one excellent season thus far. Plus, it all works out now with Buffalo but there's no guarantee it would work that well for him in Montreal. So many past stories of good to great players traded and flopped when they were in their new environment... I wouldn't touch Briere, we a different type of center.

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08-05-2006, 12:00 AM
  #72
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He's european.
Hey, that's MY line.

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Old
08-05-2006, 12:44 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
How can anyone "hate" Koivu. That is so freaking bizarre to me. The guy plays with heart, determination, has a great skill level, brings his all every shift, and has fought back from cancer.
it 's true and i am sure that there are not a lot of Habs fans that are ''hating him '' . Saku , as you said is so dedicated to the Habs , and gives always his maximun . How than , can we hate him ? .

I know that a lot of the members of the Habs board think that i am one of his hater , but it's false . I am not a fan of his hockey style and think that he's overrated , but i am not blind , Saku is a good player , as he is a good human , and i don't know what kind of team we would have had wihout him the last 10 years

Chapeau Saku !

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08-05-2006, 01:39 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Slick Nick View Post
do you remember the team we had then? Zholtok was a hero back then. Come on.. some objectivity would be appreciated.
What do you think I was talking about !?

Didn't you see the sarcasm?

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Old
08-05-2006, 01:44 AM
  #75
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yeah ! true ! give Saku 5 millions because ten years ago he made those points
Yo!

I was saying that Briere ended up doing finally something substancial at age 28.... and should not be treated like a king.

Koivu did even better at age 22 (considering his age and league)... and should not have, and was not treated, righfully so as a king.

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